Necalli General Thread: Necalli enters the Tournament!

[HeavensCloud]

Does anyone have the actual frame data for Necalli when in V-trigger? I know his stomps get safer and he gains some additional links but I can’t find raw numbers.

[AreEyeSeaKay]

V-frames app has it all.

[Gabri3l_WHOA]

So a lot of the necallis I have been running into have adopted a really lame, or at least, very safe play style of crush counter fishing and gradual v skill building. Basically they’ll tosh out standing/crouching HP’s while charging disc’s guidance. Is this just an online/bad player strategy or is necalli seeing a more conservative play style becoming prominent compared to his earlier hyper aggressive stuff. Disclaimer: I play Alex and Zangief so people playing very conservatively is usually a given at least for the first few rounds, maybe I’m just biased.

[AudricVsFood]

So a lot of the necallis I have been running into have adopted a really lame, or at least, very safe play style of crush counter fishing and gradual v skill building. Basically they’ll tosh out standing/crouching HP’s while charging disc’s guidance. Is this just an online/bad player strategy or is necalli seeing a more conservative play style becoming prominent compared to his earlier hyper aggressive stuff. Disclaimer: I play Alex and Zangief so people playing very conservatively is usually a given at least for the first few rounds, maybe I’m just biased.

Generally, Necalli’s game plan should be to get into VTrigger while minimizing the amount of damage he takes.

What would make that strategy bad or exclusive to online play?

Since you play Alex and Zangief, any character you play against is going to be reluctant to go in on you. That general idea isn’t exclusive to Necalli. Lol.

[AreEyeSeaKay]

Was reading through the thread and wondering how a character with a 3f jab, invincible DP, a command grab, high damage and a VT that improves most of his data including his movement could ever be bad… People seemed to change their tune after watching Haitani and Rog though which is cool. Reynald was putting in work at NCR too.

Because he is bad. all that on paper theory crafting sounds good until you actually play the game, and play necalli for a significant timeframe. 2-3 people who play the character who could play anyone and still compete at high levels is not a good judge of what necalli can do. and if you actually watch the games they play, with a critical eye, you will notice that they work a lot harder than others to win. (when playing other top players of their caliber).

Can he win? yes. Can he win a major? no. Why? Because all of his dmg is off of a hard read. a clean jump in, a dash up punish (which is very fast admittedly). The problem lies in being able to do this to an equal player best of set. Which is very difficult. he shines in the corner. /golfclap. so does nearly every other mid/high tier character who does not have to work as hard. so to bank a major off of the ability to pseudo “vortex” someone to death with his high burst dmg is not realistic.

There is a lot of theory crafting and such from people who do not actually play necalli. I encourage anyone and everyone who thinks he is good, to play him consistently. You will change your tune. I damn near gaurantee it. Especially if you experiment with other characters.

As an aside: because of his on paper attributes, yes technically he has the tools to win. The problem is real world scenarios. So yea, haitani and pr balrog and such will do good. can you honestly say it’s the character? no. Will they be playing necalli in a year? not if they expect to win. There is no scenario where you can say “boy i wish i was necalli right about now” that you can’t say with other characters who can do that, and better. At best you can say corner game is top 3. nothing to sneeze at. But in the end, i ask again can you win a major like that? Not with him. You’re going to need a character who can do more.

[AudricVsFood]

Was reading through the thread and wondering how a character with a 3f jab, invincible DP, a command grab, high damage and a VT that improves most of his data including his movement could ever be bad… People seemed to change their tune after watching Haitani and Rog though which is cool. Reynald was putting in work at NCR too.

Because he is bad. all that on paper theory crafting sounds good until you actually play the game, and play necalli for a significant timeframe. 2-3 people who play the character who could play anyone and still compete at high levels is not a good judge of what necalli can do. and if you actually watch the games they play, with a critical eye, you will notice that they work a lot harder than others to win. (when playing other top players of their caliber).

Can he win? yes. Can he win a major? no. Why? Because all of his dmg is off of a hard read. a clean jump in, a dash up punish (which is very fast admittedly). The problem lies in being able to do this to an equal player best of set. Which is very difficult. he shines in the corner. /golfclap. so does nearly every other mid/high tier character who does not have to work as hard. so to bank a major off of the ability to pseudo “vortex” someone to death with his high burst dmg is not realistic.

There is a lot of theory crafting and such from people who do not actually play necalli. I encourage anyone and everyone who thinks he is good, to play him consistently. You will change your tune. I damn near gaurantee it. Especially if you experiment with other characters.

As an aside: because of his on paper attributes, yes technically he has the tools to win. The problem is real world scenarios. So yea, haitani and pr balrog and such will do good. can you honestly say it’s the character? no. Will they be playing necalli in a year? not if they expect to win. There is no scenario where you can say “boy i wish i was necalli right about now” that you can’t say with other characters who can do that, and better. At best you can say corner game is top 3. nothing to sneeze at. But in the end, i ask again can you win a major like that? Not with him. You’re going to need a character who can do more.

I am very surprised that it was Phenom’s Necalli and not Haitani’s that was the first to win a major.

[Yunity]

Necalli: “thanks to @Shar…@Sh…@Sh…@Shar…@Sharktongue for belie…bb…bbb…believing in m…mm…mmm…me. You da re…rr…rrr…rre…real MV pp…ppp…P”

Necalli: “BBB…iatch!!!”

[AreEyeSeaKay]

Was reading through the thread and wondering how a character with a 3f jab, invincible DP, a command grab, high damage and a VT that improves most of his data including his movement could ever be bad… People seemed to change their tune after watching Haitani and Rog though which is cool. Reynald was putting in work at NCR too.

Because he is bad. all that on paper theory crafting sounds good until you actually play the game, and play necalli for a significant timeframe. 2-3 people who play the character who could play anyone and still compete at high levels is not a good judge of what necalli can do. and if you actually watch the games they play, with a critical eye, you will notice that they work a lot harder than others to win. (when playing other top players of their caliber).

Can he win? yes. Can he win a major? no. Why? Because all of his dmg is off of a hard read. a clean jump in, a dash up punish (which is very fast admittedly). The problem lies in being able to do this to an equal player best of set. Which is very difficult. he shines in the corner. /golfclap. so does nearly every other mid/high tier character who does not have to work as hard. so to bank a major off of the ability to pseudo “vortex” someone to death with his high burst dmg is not realistic.

There is a lot of theory crafting and such from people who do not actually play necalli. I encourage anyone and everyone who thinks he is good, to play him consistently. You will change your tune. I damn near gaurantee it. Especially if you experiment with other characters.

As an aside: because of his on paper attributes, yes technically he has the tools to win. The problem is real world scenarios. So yea, haitani and pr balrog and such will do good. can you honestly say it’s the character? no. Will they be playing necalli in a year? not if they expect to win. There is no scenario where you can say “boy i wish i was necalli right about now” that you can’t say with other characters who can do that, and better. At best you can say corner game is top 3. nothing to sneeze at. But in the end, i ask again can you win a major like that? Not with him. You’re going to need a character who can do more.

I am very surprised that it was Phenom’s Necalli and not Haitani’s that was the first to win a major.

Yeah I’m with you there. Phenom really surprised me, he beat a lot of killers in a row.

That last match with Fuudo was so crazy. Fuudo just kept doing meaties and phenom kept making him pay. When Fuudo went to delay his attack, phenom was catching him with counter hit jabs converted into combos. Really good plays/reads.

[Muttonman]

Was reading through the thread and wondering how a character with a 3f jab, invincible DP, a command grab, high damage and a VT that improves most of his data including his movement could ever be bad… People seemed to change their tune after watching Haitani and Rog though which is cool. Reynald was putting in work at NCR too.

Because he is bad. all that on paper theory crafting sounds good until you actually play the game, and play necalli for a significant timeframe. 2-3 people who play the character who could play anyone and still compete at high levels is not a good judge of what necalli can do. and if you actually watch the games they play, with a critical eye, you will notice that they work a lot harder than others to win. (when playing other top players of their caliber).

Can he win? yes. Can he win a major? no. Why? Because all of his dmg is off of a hard read. a clean jump in, a dash up punish (which is very fast admittedly). The problem lies in being able to do this to an equal player best of set. Which is very difficult. he shines in the corner. /golfclap. so does nearly every other mid/high tier character who does not have to work as hard. so to bank a major off of the ability to pseudo “vortex” someone to death with his high burst dmg is not realistic.

There is a lot of theory crafting and such from people who do not actually play necalli. I encourage anyone and everyone who thinks he is good, to play him consistently. You will change your tune. I damn near gaurantee it. Especially if you experiment with other characters.

As an aside: because of his on paper attributes, yes technically he has the tools to win. The problem is real world scenarios. So yea, haitani and pr balrog and such will do good. can you honestly say it’s the character? no. Will they be playing necalli in a year? not if they expect to win. There is no scenario where you can say “boy i wish i was necalli right about now” that you can’t say with other characters who can do that, and better. At best you can say corner game is top 3. nothing to sneeze at. But in the end, i ask again can you win a major like that? Not with him. You’re going to need a character who can do more.

I am very surprised that it was Phenom’s Necalli and not Haitani’s that was the first to win a major.

Haitani won a major in Australia. It just wasn’t a premier event

[AudricVsFood]

Was reading through the thread and wondering how a character with a 3f jab, invincible DP, a command grab, high damage and a VT that improves most of his data including his movement could ever be bad… People seemed to change their tune after watching Haitani and Rog though which is cool. Reynald was putting in work at NCR too.

Because he is bad. all that on paper theory crafting sounds good until you actually play the game, and play necalli for a significant timeframe. 2-3 people who play the character who could play anyone and still compete at high levels is not a good judge of what necalli can do. and if you actually watch the games they play, with a critical eye, you will notice that they work a lot harder than others to win. (when playing other top players of their caliber).

Can he win? yes. Can he win a major? no. Why? Because all of his dmg is off of a hard read. a clean jump in, a dash up punish (which is very fast admittedly). The problem lies in being able to do this to an equal player best of set. Which is very difficult. he shines in the corner. /golfclap. so does nearly every other mid/high tier character who does not have to work as hard. so to bank a major off of the ability to pseudo “vortex” someone to death with his high burst dmg is not realistic.

There is a lot of theory crafting and such from people who do not actually play necalli. I encourage anyone and everyone who thinks he is good, to play him consistently. You will change your tune. I damn near gaurantee it. Especially if you experiment with other characters.

As an aside: because of his on paper attributes, yes technically he has the tools to win. The problem is real world scenarios. So yea, haitani and pr balrog and such will do good. can you honestly say it’s the character? no. Will they be playing necalli in a year? not if they expect to win. There is no scenario where you can say “boy i wish i was necalli right about now” that you can’t say with other characters who can do that, and better. At best you can say corner game is top 3. nothing to sneeze at. But in the end, i ask again can you win a major like that? Not with him. You’re going to need a character who can do more.

I am very surprised that it was Phenom’s Necalli and not Haitani’s that was the first to win a major.

Haitani won a major in Australia. It just wasn’t a premier event

Oh yeah, completely forgot about the Melbourne Battle Arena event (that’s what it was called, right?). Haitani and Momochi sure do meet each other in tournament a lot.

[Yunity]

New Necalli threads are sick!

[Spinning_Beat]

So I want to sub Necalli because I like his premium outfit.

I have no idea where to start learning this character. Any tips for real?

[AreEyeSeaKay]

The tech thread! Good stuff there, a little spread out though.

Bri4n_f YouTube channel is great, too.

[mobbdeep]

I’ve been trying to optimize some common situations for Necalli regarding his combos, mainly during v-trigger, a common string Necalli players do is st.lk, st.mk, cr.mp. This is a great string but if you give up a bit of pressure then in turn you might gain a LOT of damage, talking about this string st.lk, cr.mp. During V-trigger this string is great.

Outside of v-trigger it’s mainly used as a frametrap:
st.lk(blocked), cr.mp xx qcf+mk.
On counterhit cr.mp combos into qcf+mk, if the qcf+mk trades it also allows for a nice combo. Unfortunately outside of V-Trigger this string gives up quite a bit of pressure opportunity, so it’s the tradeoff you have to make. I would stick with st.lk, st.mk, cr.mp, but if you need a comeback then this is a string which might be usefull to keep in mind.

During V-Trigger it shines though.
Before that i want to mention st.lk, st.mk, st.mp xx bf+hp won’t combo if the st.lk was a counterhit on wakeup, so you then have to do st.lk, st.mk, cr.mp xx bf+mp. You give up a bit of damage and corner carry then. It’s another small annoyance to keep in mind while playing Necalli. However with st.lk, cr.mp you don’t have to worry about that during V-Trigger.
*
st.lk, cr.mp xx qcf+mk, cr.mp xx bf+mp*
This is the reason why st.lk cr.mp is strong, during V-Trigger Necalli can combo into qcf+mk from medium punch attacks. If st.lk is blocked and cr.mp hits you can link another cr.mp during v-trigger o reaction and still finish the combo. When you cancel from a cr.mp you move forward a lot, so you will(almost) always be able to do a hp dp(it whiffs sometimes when you do a crossup, st.mp xx qcf+mk, after crossup just do the Disc’s Guidance as an ender) for the full 3 hits which does a bit more damage than st.mp xx qcf+mk, cr.mp xx bf+mp. You however do get slightly worse oki and corner carry.

cr.mp, cr.mp is also a blockstring which catches 3f normals like st.mk, cr.mp, you do cr.mp, c.r, mp only after a st.lk, if you forego the st.lk just start with st.mp.

You could make the argument that the st.mk leaves you closer, however Necalli his walkspeed during vtrigger is improved and he has longer reach on his normals and cr.mp has the same frame advantage on block as st.mk, i say you can still apply the same pressure.

If you don’t start with st.lk, forget about starting with cr.mp, just start with st.mp then. St.mp does 10 more damage than st.mk, it can also cancel into bf+hp unlike cr.mp, in the corner you can do st.mp, st.mk>hk>close v-skill, lp dp.

Amost same concept but from a jump attack. During V-Trigger when you land a jump attack you can hitconfirm the jump attack and do cr.hp xx qcf+mk to maximize the damage but it’s hard to do tbh, and if it’s blocked and you fucked up you lose pressure. You want to start with st.mp after a jump attack unless you know for a fact the jump atatck will hit, then ofcourse you go into cr/st.hp.

j.mk/j.hp st.mp xx qcf+mk, cr.mp xx bf+hp/dp+hp

if the jump attack connects you do st.mp xx qcf+mk, cr.mp xx bf+mp/d[+hp

if the jump attack is blocked you do st.mp, st.mk. It’s hard to optimize here because if the jump attack is blocked, but st.mp hits then you woud want to do another st.mp for optmal damage, however if st.mp is blocked you would want to do st.mk for the frametrap(on counterhit you can link cr.mk from st.mk and it still reaches, this doesn’t work with st.mp or cr.mp). So in this situation you want to do st.mp, st.mk regardless if the st.mp would hit or not. If a jump attack is blocked near the corner, but the st.mp hits, which you would follow into st.mk, you can go into Necalli his Target Ccombo on reaction easily.

A lot of this stuff is ofcourse known, but i see a lot of Necalli players, even the top players never going for this stuff(admittedly i didn’t either(not that im a top player lol), but i’m going to change that!) All these little things wil add up over time during a match, it can be te difference between killing an opponent and having to fight for another hit. Ofcourse this stuff only works if the opponent is pressing buttons during pressure, you also can’t keep flowcharting with this though, you’ll just be predictable. But if you happen to catch people pressing buttons, might aswell optimize it hard.

*st.mp, st.mk whiffs on standing and blocking characters, however holding forward after st.mp lets you get in range, on hit it’ll reach without a problem.
**You can also forgo the st.mk altogether and just focus on st.mp, cr.mp but on cr.mp counterhit you don’t get anything

stand lk into cr mp is a great frame trap it works on everybody and if they don’t have a 3 frame move they can’t beat.

because st lk is + on 2 and cr mp starts up in 5…

[shadedwonder]

I’m starting to struggle with playstyles that are heavy on anti-air and footsie. What are some safe ways to get in close with lower punish risk than Disk’s Guidance?

[AndyG]

I’m starting to struggle with playstyles that are heavy on anti-air and footsie. What are some safe ways to get in close with lower punish risk than Disk’s Guidance?

walk forward, they’ll have to do something to contest you and you punish them for doing so, typically by stuffing something with c.MP or s.HP or by whiff punishing something they stick out

v-skill in neutral is good too

[AudricVsFood]

I’m starting to struggle with playstyles that are heavy on anti-air and footsie. What are some safe ways to get in close with lower punish risk than Disk’s Guidance?

It’s hard. Generally, AndyG’s response is correct. I prefer st.MP for the hitbox. Also, jump fierce has a great hit box. If the opponent is stationary and anti-airing consistently, you could try challenging with dive kick. If they’re mobile like Chun and Karin and make your dive kick whiff, the punish on your recovery is gonna hurt. That’s the tradeoff.

[docvizzo]

I think throwing out “random” cr.mps with a buffered Dash is a great way to get in in the footsie game. The hitbox extends a lot, so its key to only do it when you know its either going to whiff (Dash wont come out) or if you catch a footsie (Dash will hit). It takes some time to get the proper spacing, so you dont do it in ranges where it can be blocked, since then also the buffered dash will come out and leave you open for a punish.

St.HP can be used in a similar fashion, but cr.mp has way better recovery on a whiff (13 Frames compared to 19 Frames for st.HP). If you buffer a Shoryuken after cr.mp dash you can still antiair…at least thats how i have to do it since i cant really DP on reaction

[Sunghoon]

I find it hilarious that necalli cant tickthrow into his LP command throw. Not only is it a 6 or 7frame gap from his lights, which is pretty shitty in of itself, but command throws dont cause proximity guard in this game. Combined with the 8f startup and short range, every character in the game (including bison!!) can just backwalk out of any tickthrow setup you do. Regardless if you tick with st.lp, cr.lp, st.lk, or cr.lk.

[Necrotrophic]

I find it hilarious that necalli cant tickthrow into his LP command throw. Not only is it a 6 or 7frame gap from his lights, which is pretty shitty in of itself, but command throws dont cause proximity guard in this game. Combined with the 8f startup and short range, every character in the game (including bison!!) can just backwalk out of any tickthrow setup you do. Regardless if you tick with st.lp, cr.lp, st.lk, or cr.lk.

St.lk lp command grab

6 frame gap

And you have a solid mixup between that and st.lk Cr.mp