Anyone watch the Brazilian tournament today? A player named brolyinho was playing Necalli and did a sick combo out of st mk st hk stomp target combo into an ex dp. At least that’s what I think I saw. I tried doing it in training, but couldn’t recreate it. Anyone know what I’m talking about? It was in a top 8 match with jwong’s karin.
I saw him do target combo xx v trigger, dash forward ex dp. Works with hp dp also.
In the corner you can tag on any 4f or faster move as well, does good damage or an air reset.
ahhh… that’s it. Thanks. That’s a great combo when you just need that last seismo to v trigger cancel.
So his resets should be done with the 5Lk, no?
St lk is the meaty button. +5 on hit if timed correctly, so you can combo into st mk -> whatever.
Air reset doesn’t matter/depends on your set up timing.
^this is true. an addendum:
I think s.LK can be +6 on hit if timed correctly. +5 would be fine if the only confirm was s.LK, s.MK, c.MP but I don’t think I would trust that I got the frame-perfect meaty timing to go into TC after s.LK. I do that all the time though either I’m doing better than I should be with little practice, or it can be +6.
Yeah you are probably right. I just know it’s at least +5! Thanks for the correction.
It depends. Target Combo resets yes. EX Grab resets no, either use a heavier button for damage or a jab for the left/right.
Goes up to +7 even; +4 on hit, 4 active frames. Goes up to +5 on block which makes it a perfect tick into a command throw as well
Wow…I’ve been meating with st.MK and had no idea st.LK was this good. I have trouble meating in this game sometimes, and against armour moves, and Nash’s V-trigger, you really have to be accurate. St.LK makes that so much easier.
what are people doing after EX stomp? I don’t think there is any button you can press that gets you much… c.lp, even s.mk can stuff whatever they press, but you don’t get anything off the counterhit unless you walk forward after the stomp, so you’re vulnerable there.
You can sorta OS target combo against chun because s.mk whiffs on a crouchblocking chun after EX stomp but hits if she presses anything. This doesn’t work on a lot of characters though.
Follow up question, what are people doing to blow up late tech? I fake a throw and go with c.mk xx Lk stomp or ex stomp, but the reward off either isn’t fantastic unless they are close to stun. I’d like to do something like c.hp xx mk stomp, but the hurtbox on c.hp seems to extend too early and get me grabbed all the time.
Finally, just some theory-Necalli, but I’m basically not using command throw at all in the corner. I like to have the dp on deck if they jump, forward throw does plenty of damage and gives a setup. Also command throw makes people wanna jump and Necalli doesn’t get anything huge from a jumping opponent. Instead I’ll start using command throw midscreen where the setup is better than off forward throw. Does anybody have any canned setups off command throw or do I have to stop being lazy and lab it?
if you can’t tell I put in my time in training mode, I been doing this for a minute. I figure stuff out myself when it comes to footsies ranges and meter management theory based on matchups, but stuff like “dash whiff this normal then xx hits meaty on the third active frame” is the shit I steal from youtube and forums 
edit to be more specific about the help I’m looking for: I read through the tech thread, there is some stuff off EX command throw but I don’t really wanna spend that meter round 1. Is there any analysis of the reward off of normal command throws, in particular midscreen? differences between the versions etc? I should probably know this considering I wrote vframes AND play necalli, but some things fall through the cracks I guess :sad:
The corner is where command throw is at its best. After a knockdown/reset you can force them to straight up guess after a well timed meaty st lk. It’s also the only spot on the screen lp command throw can result in more pressure. Mid screen you basically reset back to neutral.
Exactly; you get pressure after a normal throw midscreen. You get nothing after a normal command throw. In the corner you get pressure after both
yea i think he misunderstood my meme of flipping my pc table in a rage. Like wtf did i read 
okay, good to know. so why ever use non-EX command throw midscreen? command throw has its uses when you have a major life lead and need more damage/stun than a normal throw to close out the round I guess
as for corner command throw, like muttonman said, you get pressure off both normal throw and command throw in the corner. so why command throw? I’d rather be able to AA their jump. it does a little more damage/stun (enough to be significant in certain situations) but in general, the risk/reward just does not tell me I should be using command throw over normal throw in most scenarios. and I’m not saying this is an unquestionable truth, I’m saying this is my take on it based on my understanding of the character. if you feel differently, please feel free to open a discussion to the contrary. you can also feel free to post more meme pictures but I think newer players reading the thread would get more out of the conversation.
i had to delete my original thought to try to be nicer. but fuck that. lrn2play. you’re asking why use a command throw over a throw. this isn’t something unique to necalli. i feel no need to engage players to get more out of a conversation that should not have to be had. ask these things in beginner thread, and maybe i’d feel different, but the premise of your dialogue is infuriating. i mean entire characters are built around command throws. the archetype is called grapplers. the strength of a command throw is that it cannot be broken. tack on the +dmg and +stun you should be able to put two and two together sir. Good night.
More range, can’t be teched. It’s not a great command throw; hell, EX is pretty shitty unless you’re either in VT or the corner as 168 damage isn’t that great, but the threat gets people to do stuff. If you’re in the corner you can go for a left/right, and if you’re in VT you do solid damage with the DP ender or can do a left/right anywhere. Thus when I go for an EX Grab midscreen outside of VT I tend to use a sweep ender, as it lets you do a dash into meaty regardless of their wakeup option.
there’s no need to be a jerk, you can take your superiority complex and shove it. A: I’m not a beginner, I’m just trying to start a discussion about the character we play (I’m no SF top pro, but I’ve had my top 8s over the years) and B: there’s also risk/reward to take into account, positioning afterward, and what the move makes people want to do next time. on paper, the command grab cannot be teched and it does some more damage and stun, with a little more range. in practice, I’m not convinced that the risk/reward is worth it in most cases, and as such, I’m not really using it.
I’m not the only one, either. how about this match between tokido and haitani where, out of 5 games, haitani uses normal command throw in 2 of them (and would it really have been that much worse to go for shimmy or normal throw?)
or this one between filipinoman and pr rog where pr rog, in 9 rounds, uses the normal command throw a whopping 1 time:
and let’s analyze the time he uses it: reversal after blocked EX legs which means it’s the difference between having to walk > throw or just command throw. I like that use and will probably start using it. but one command throw in 9 rounds… that seems to line up with what I’m thinking about that throw in general.
I’m looking for a risk/reward that will translate into tournament wins, not the theory on what strengths a command throw has over a normal throw.
yeah I get EX, I think it’s okay. the normal command throw is the one I feel like people are respecting way too much right now.