Purification assist is SLOW. On top of that, it’s L purification only, so that would make it even harder to OTG with off of the Hulk stuff that needs OTGs to be scary. Still, I haven’t tested it, and if it works, then great. Hulk is a meter hog too, btw; his combos don’t build much of it, and he ends most of them with a dash-jump canceled Gamma Tsunami or Gamma Quake in the corner. If you’re hell bent on playing those two, I might consider getting rid of Sent and opting for someone like Wesker instead, just to make Hulk scarier; the only thing he can threaten an airborne opponent with is airthrow or C Tornado, and without an OTG assist those options don’t hurt.
Relying on exchange to build meter isn’t a very good strat, since the most common input to counter is down, as that’s the one that builds the most meter.
Honestly I think Dorm does fine on point if you have some good zoning assists. His combos build enough meter to get a chaotic flame off but it just depends on what you want to do with him. With meter you can just flame ball > 2C1D > flame ball over and over for massive chip but he’s got plenty of tools to zone and rush down under cover of assists. If you’re running dorm second, you do lose the “get off me” factor with Hulk.
I’ve been doing fine running him on point but it all depends if you want to treat him as a point character and focus on his abilities or just have him as the cheese ball meter spammer.
I think Dorm on point is good, it’s just that he A) needs assists to help him zone and B) needs to do it against people that REALLY have trouble getting in on him, otherwise it seems better to just run him 2nd w/ meter. There’s no question that he’s way better with meter, but he can still be played on point in certain match-ups. Just not sure how many he can be played on point reasonably vs. not reasonably.
I dunno, people just don’t know how to handle pressure yet. Give him tron assist and Doom missiles and they’re gonna have trouble getting in. I know we’re “low level” but I really haven’t had much trouble as him vs people rushing running Dorm Shum Doom. Flame Carpet > Assist = you now have space. But yeah, if you wanna run him on point you definitely need assists devoted to that purpose. If you just want Dorm on your team and not necessarily focused on him then yeah, pop him in second or third. Although… I imagine he’s a good third if you save X factor. Level 3 X factor > put your balls in their face = dead character. Also, a good way to kill phoenix problem free.
I think it’s too early to say whether or not there is or isn’t an easy way to deal with Phoenix/Dark Phoenix. But problem free is definitely a stretch. As easy as Haggar is to zone out when he’s left by himself, I still wouldn’t consider that problem free for the zoner.
If you have balls out when she comes in there’s nothing she can do, can’t X factor in the air, no time to teleport. Just get chipped and die, transform, get hit by more balls, die some more.
Edit: In fact, I wonder if you can snap her in and immediately throw a ball before she comes in and have it out in time? That may be a really good way to get rid of her ass…
That’s actually not a bad idea. Yes you can snap her in and do it. The problem is that her teleport has 10 frames of start-up with no invincibility, so you’d hit her out of it as long as the ball worked it’s way over to where she WOULD be when she came out. You may have to do ball and then do meaty chaotic flame so the ball has time to track her, if it doesn’t track her before she comes in after the snapback. She’d have to block it and eat the chip, or do her phoenix rage super (invincibility) to hit Dorm, but then she’d still eat the fireball I think? You could maybe do ball -> meaty chaotic flame XFC right as the ball gets to her into another ball and then do another ball and another one until you run out of meter?
I dunno how Dorm works, but I could see her ass getting chipped down pretty quick. It all really depends on what happens if you do ball with meaty chaotic flame and she does her phoenix rage super on the way in. If that happens, does the rage eat the ball and hit Dorm? Or does the rage hit Dorm but the ball hits her for full damage? And if so, what can you do after that? That’s the real question.
I’ve killed a couple of dark phoenixs after a down by throwing out the ball and M teleport at the last second. Laughable times.
As far as hulk goes I never really considered his gamma wave assist as it’s slow compared to up charge which also has armor. But the push back might be worth while.
I definitely enjoy dorm on point.
With him being on point name a few peeps who you think would be a good replacement for hulk or sent.
good luck trying to get meter to beat a good phoenix player when your spending most of that shit just to snap her in until you get a hit on her and beating the sents most phoenix players have on there team.
Doom missiles is very good for dorm, as well as other beams to cover you while doing flame carpet. Sent is probably pretty good for Dorm but if you want a Defensive assist to replace Hulk, I’d say Tron, since her Lunch Rush is pretty easy to combo off chaotic flame and you have a good GTFO assist with her. So you’d have Dorm > Tron > Sent. Tron is ass on point with no assist so it’ll be good to have sentinel last with his assist, and for level 3 x factor if it comes to that.
So it’s basically, if you can get a hitbox inside out of range of the flame, you can hit her? That would explain how I hit her with Zero’s st.H once from pretty far away but wasn’t able to do it again at other times.
Re: Tron assist, the invincibility on this move is kinda goofy. I did a lot of testing with it and came to the conclusion that while it IS invincible, it doesn’t seem to be that way for very long. Initially I thought it wasn’t invincible up to the active frames, but when I tried to place a meaty normal on the screen to hit her, I wasn’t very successful unless it was something from a certain distance. So it can be pretty effective on defense to shut down some melee attackers. It doesn’t have the raw invincibility that Haggar’s lariat has, but it’s probably superior otherwise.
Out of the maybe 40 or so Phoenix players I’ve played on PSN, their team structure seems to be someone cheesy (like Storm), a Meter building assist, and then Phoenix.
Seems no one wants to play Sentinel in any place but 3rd…
Is phoenix already dark? Because if so, this position will never actually happen in a real fight.
If Phoenix is normal, there is no way to guarantee a hit after she transforms, as the transformation invincibility combined with a teleport insures she can always get out (as evidenced by [media=youtube]_itDdhla-u4"[/media]). The fireball goes away if Dorm is hit, so in that situation you described (Chaotic Flame + Stalking Flame) Dorm gets hit, and Phoenix gets away without a scratch. (Upon further review, this is not a question.)
Stalking flame is slow as fuck to come out unless you XFC the recovery, so “Get chipped and die, transform, get chipped by more balls” doesn’t work (and even if it did, the vid above still gives her a way out).
In order to kill Phoenix, you gotta be damn lucky.
Just tested all the assists in the game and I’m gonna conclude that Haggar-A and Tron-B are the only invincible assists. Haggar’s invincibility lasts longer but Tron has a large hitbox and small hurtbox after her invincibility ends making them equally effective at interrupting your opponents attacks. Tron’s bigger hitbox also means that characters can’t crouch under her assist like they can against Haggar’s. On top of that Tron’s assist doesn’t inflict damage upon herself like Haggar’s. A point in Haggar’s favor is that his assist does more damage and causes a hard knockdown making it more useful in continuing a combo.
Overall I’d say Tron’s assist is better and she’s also a vastly superior character on point.
I thought we were analyzing snapping in Phoenix to kill her? Who in the hell is gonna snap in a Phoenix sitting on 5 bars? And then I guess the Dorm stuff doesn’t work if Stalking Flame disappears when Dorm gets hit. 5 bar Phoenix is obviously a problem, I was looking at shutting that shit down to start with. I am not yet convinced that luck is the only thing stopping Phoenix and possibly even Dark Phoenix. But hell, even XFactor level 3 is a problem with some characters, so XFL3 DP should be pretty hard to deal with considering how much there’s staked in it and how hard it is to set-up if people are trying to stop it.
You can still force a mix-up on her with a snapback and I don’t know what else you would want. I mean, if the fix to a “broken character” is to be able to snap her in to some sort of guaranteed 100% unblockable set-up that kills her for no thought involved, that sounds pretty stupid. But it’s not like snapbacks aren’t still a good idea against her. The risk/reward on those against Phoenix is pretty gewd.
All I’m saying is that this game is a month old, and just because there isn’t a known way to deal with Phoenix (according to some) doesn’t mean there won’t be. On the same note, there may very well not be. But no one knows that yet. Not even the almighty DUSTIN WRONG, KING OF FIGHTING GAME. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
I thought it was interesting how Seth noted that the Capcom QA team found some “godlike” stuff that the community hasn’t uncovered yet, while the community has found things they didn’t consider too.
I don’t like the DHC trick. Because Elemental Rage > Astral Vision.
