NBC Shakeup -- Jay Leno Comes Out on Top

[Septimus_Prime]

Yeah but Conan’s show was always playing 2nd to Leno. Conan had lower profile celebs (in contrast to Tonight show where each celeb had something current in the media somehow) and his show was less accessible than Leno’s. It was pretty easy for most people to catch Leno’s show but Conan’s came on too late.

And then what about when he did start his Tonight Show and had the same time slot and high profile guests as Jay used to? His show saw a brief rise in ratings, but then that faded away quickly. And keep in mind that Jay wasn’t on TV at all during this time.

Tonight Show with Jay had 5 million viewers. Guess what a show like Law and Order gets (it’s lead-in)? Twice that much, usually more than 10 million viewers a show. It’s one thing to say that lead-in’s aren’t the reason this happened. But you can’t compare a lead-in that nets 5 million viewers to one that nets over 10 million viewers. Furthermore, the fact that the viewers remained the same is actually significantly in favor of the idea that lead-in’s reflect how many viewers the next show will have. Jay Leno had the same amount of viewers and again, the same amount of viewers stayed tuned in for Conan.

Your points did a good job of providing my case for me though, thanks.

We aren’t even talking about the same thing, dude. I know exactly that lead-ins are the problem, but The Jay Leno Show doesn’t lead into the Tonight Show with Conan O’Brien. It’s the news shows that lost viewers and caused all this to happen. How did I provide your case for you when your case was completely unrelated to what I’ve been talking about the whole time? Give me a break.

Consider that Conan’s Tonight Show was also on for three months before The Jay Leno Show even began to air and that it had the same ratings then, too. The only difference was that the news had a better lead-in with whatever primetime drama happened to be on at the time (I think it was ER) and saw better ratings. That audience apparently did NOT stick around to watch Conan afterward, though.

[Dataika]

I know exactly that lead-ins are the problem, but The Jay Leno Show doesn’t lead into the Tonight Show with Conan O’Brien. It’s the news shows that lost viewers and caused all this to happen.

You are contradicting yourself. You are saying that the news show is losing viewers causing this to happen, but then it’s Conan’s fault when he apparently doesn’t “keep” the same viewers as Jay? Seems like a contradictory statement to me. Furthermore, even if what you’re saying is true, starting with over 10 million viewers and then losing some from the news does not = starting with just 5 and losing them to the news, does it?

My case was completely unrelated to your points? What, so you just brought up points that had nothing to do with my argument? Why’d you bring them up then?

[akuma31]

And then what about when he did start his Tonight Show and had the same time slot and high profile guests as Jay used to? His show saw a brief rise in ratings, but then that faded away quickly. And keep in mind that Jay wasn’t on TV at all during this time.

The drop in ratings was because Jay came back. Jay and Conan’s shows then had split viewership between Jay’s fans and Conan fans. Also Conan saw a drop in ratings because his content was toned down by a lot in comparison to his old show. If he was allowed to kick it up a notch, people would have gotten a better impression and more people would watch it. Conan’s show recently have seen the best ratings it’s ever had and that’s probably due to the change in content.

[Warrior_s_Dreams]

I look forward to the day where Conan does his old material from Late Night again, on whatever media that might occur on.

I also look forward to the return of “Little” Jay Leno. God I hope he comes back before Conan leaves. It’d be great. They could open the show with Little Jay doing the monologue. Then Masturbating Bear comes along and chases him off stage before celebrating in style.

[Septimus_Prime]

You are contradicting yourself. You are saying that the news show is losing viewers causing this to happen, but then it’s Conan’s fault when he apparently doesn’t “keep” the same viewers as Jay? Seems like a contradictory statement to me. Furthermore, even if what you’re saying is true, starting with over 10 million viewers and then losing some from the news does not = starting with just 5 and losing them to the news, does it?

My case was completely unrelated to your points? What, so you just brought up points that had nothing to do with my argument? Why’d you bring them up then?

Let’s not pretend like you misinterpreting my post is the same thing as me contradicting myself; that’s a pretty egotistical thing to do. What I was saying had nothing to do with Jay’s effect on news ratings, and nowhere do I say that The Jay Leno Show is a success or that it isn’t causing lead-in problems for the news. The Jay Leno Show doesn’t even lead into the Tonight Show, so we aren’t even talking about the same lead-in.

You were also the one who came out of nowhere first, with your post criticizing my logic and presenting a completely different topic as evidence.

The drop in ratings was because Jay came back. Jay and Conan’s shows then had split viewership between Jay’s fans and Conan fans. Also Conan saw a drop in ratings because his content was toned down by a lot in comparison to his old show. If he was allowed to kick it up a notch, people would have gotten a better impression and more people would watch it. Conan’s show recently have seen the best ratings it’s ever had and that’s probably due to the change in content.

Seems like you’re digging yourself into a hole by arguing with your emotions over logic and numbers. All I see in your post are excuses for why Conan’s show didn’t hit its target ratings. The Jay Leno Show wasn’t on TV for the first three months that Conan’s Tonight Show aired, and Conan’s Tonight Show still failed to increase its audience size during that time, save for a spike during its premiere, which faded quickly.

Read these: http://weblogs.variety.com/bltv/2010/01/conan-camps-revisionist-ratings-history-2.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/arts/television/14fans.html?ref=television

[maxx]

all the news outlets are reporting conan lost and is about bounce with a cash settlement. so sad.

[Warrior_s_Dreams]

I bet part of it involves not flaming NBC

[Dataika]

Let’s not pretend like you misinterpreting my post is the same thing as me contradicting myself; that’s a pretty egotistical thing to do.

I apologize, I wasn’t trying to be egotistical. Looking back, I see that what you said was about Jay Leno’s “Tonight Show” rather than the Jay Leno show. Reading those articles was actually a very good experience for me, as I did not know some of the information presented. Thank you.

Also, looking back, the quote function didn’t work for me (I tried to quote Monte’s post) then tried to go back and edit my post to you, explaining that, and the edit function apparently didn’t work. New SRK forum kind of sucks balls.

Good debate though man, haven’t had one like that on SRK for a long time. Thanks.

[crimzonflame]

Who would of thought that Jimmy Fallon would be heir apparant to the Tonight Show.

[Septimus_Prime]

I apologize, I wasn’t trying to be egotistical. Looking back, I see that what you said was about Jay Leno’s “Tonight Show” rather than the Jay Leno show. Reading those articles was actually a very good experience for me, as I did not know some of the information presented. Thank you.

Also, looking back, the quote function didn’t work for me (I tried to quote Monte’s post) then tried to go back and edit my post to you, explaining that, and the edit function apparently didn’t work. New SRK forum kind of sucks balls.

Good debate though man, haven’t had one like that on SRK for a long time. Thanks.

It’s all good, man. I would have called you out a bit more, but I know you’re cool in real life, and I didn’t want to tread too far into a debate where I might not be able to hang.

I actually prefer Conan, by the way. I just don’t/can’t argue with raw numbers.

[maxx]

Who would of thought that Jimmy Fallon would be heir apparant to the Tonight Show.

wut? hahaha…notttt happening.

[MegamanDS]

They finally agreed. Conan ends his contract for $30 million. I think he should be good now until he starts on a different network

[Obi-one-drunkobe]

They finally agreed. Conan ends his contract for $30 million. I think he should be good now until he starts on a different network

bummer i guess the stern invite from conan isnt going to happen . stern would have torn nbc a new one on their own network lol

[Monte]

all the news outlets are reporting conan lost and is about bounce with a cash settlement. so sad.

it’s only a loss for conan if part of the buyout means he can’t go back on tv for 3 and a half years otherwise he’ll be back soon. have the terms been disclosed yet?

[Septimus_Prime]

Here’s a good assessment of Conan’s Tonight: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-01-13/good-riddance/?cid=hp:beastoriginalsC1

Conan O?Brien may have been hilarious on Late Night, but his Tonight Show was seriously unfunny. Plus, watch five classic Tonight Show controversies.

As a member of the coveted 18-to-49-year-old demographic, let me say that I thought Conan O?Brien?s Tonight Show stunk. I like Conan?I really do. I feel bad that he?s become the latest corpse in Jeff Zucker?s NBC funeral parlor. But in all the odes to Conan?s martyrdom, no one actually seems to be defending his seven-month-old Tonight Show. That?s because the show, even for us Cocophiles, wasn?t funny.

I say this as a loyalist of O?Brien?s Late Night heyday (1993-2009), the era of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog, Conando, Desk Driving, ?In the Year 2000,? PimpBot 5000, staring contests with Andy Richter, deadpan acting by Max Weinberg, and every bit written or voiced by the wonderfully demented Robert Smigel. I am solidly part of Conan?s base?that is, a thirtysomething male who is not averse to robot humor.

But Conan?s Tonight Show left me utterly bored after a few shows. The problems were fundamental. First is that here in the hangover of the 2008 election, we want political satire. O?Brien doesn?t do much political satire. If you think of the transcendent bits that surfaced on YouTube since Conan began Tonight last June, they?ve come from Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert, various cable chat shows, even ancient Saturday Night Live. Jay Leno may be murderously unfunny, but he has the good sense to do jokes about the president/put his finger into the wind.

Conan?s only major contribution to political goofery is Smigel?s (inspired) ventriloquism of politicians like George W. Bush. It?s no wonder that O?Brien?s Late Night ratings plummeted by nearly 700,000 viewers (more than 25 percent) back in 2008, when the nation glued its eyes to the campaign. It should have been an omen: His Tonight Show felt off-topic before it started.

That might not have been so deadly if the Tonight throne hadn?t distorted what made O?Brien funny. The problem is not the old saw that O?Brien?s ?brand of comedy? doesn?t play at 11:35 p.m. Carson and Letterman had plenty of inspired wackiness, and Grandma and Grandpa liked them just fine. The problem is that O?Brien is really at his best as a straight man?the guy doing the horrified reaction shot when the masturbating bear runs out on stage. He?s a ringmaster rather than an emotional center of gravity.

This flows from O?Brien?s Harvard Lampoon sensibility, a kind of comedy that is impish and intellectual rather than crusading and heartfelt. (You can never imagine Conan snarling like Jon Stewart.) There?s nothing wrong with this, and it could work within the right show. But when O?Brien sat down at Johnny?s desk, the gravitas seemed to throw off his balance. The show?s first week was an embarrassing celebration of all things Conan?see the opening sketch. It should have rightly celebrated the whole Conan traveling circus, from the dog to the masturbating bear. Recall that Letterman?s triumphant first months on CBS were devoted as much to whichever character popped up on Broadway as to Dave himself.

The most baffling question about Conan?s Tonight Show: Who was it for? Last year, he told The New York Times Magazine, ?The biggest mistake would be to alter my signal to reach all these different people.? But it almost felt like O?Brien heard all of the worries about Leno?s old viewers abandoning him en masse, so he tried to split the difference. His show wasn?t for the old or for the young; it seemed lodged in the ravine between Leno?s fusty Tonight on the one hand, and Colbert, Kimmel, Ferguson, Chelsea Handler, and his hipper competitors on the other. No amount of Noches de Pasion could change that.

None of this is to say that O?Brien?s Tonight Show wasn?t smothered in the crib (though the man has been on NBC?s late night for going on 17 years?how long does it take to find your footing?). Faced with eviction, O?Brien did the noble thing and published a screw-you to NBC. And the thing is, it was funny (?People of Earth??), angry, unblinking, and, in its invocation of Saint Johnny?something O?Brien did again Tuesday night?actually quite touching. The man seemed to know why he wanted to be there. Too bad he never did while he was hosting The Tonight Show.

I kind of agree. I miss the talking mouth segments the most.

[BouncingSoul]

When did the Jay Leno Show at 10pm ever have 5 million viewers? from all the reports i have heard, he had like 2 million viewers and his show was failing, but at the same time Conan had like a 2 million viewers also and had a failing show as his lead in show. regardless NBC is stupid for getting rid of Jay at 11:30 and i dont think he will ever have the same amount of viewers.

[ThePurpleBunny]

it’s only a loss for conan if part of the buyout means he can’t go back on tv for 3 and a half years otherwise he’ll be back soon. have the terms been disclosed yet?

Apparently he’s free to take a job with another network before the contract expires.

[Hotobu]

What does Comedy Central show before the Daily Show? That’d be an interesting destination I’d think.

[ViciousSLASH]

All the characters are the thing I missed the most.

Especially the Masterbating Bear. It felt like a neutered Conan. That is all.

[maelstrom218]

Perhaps I’m in the minority, but I loved Conan’s run on the Tonight Show. I’ll be the first to admit that it wasn’t as blatantly funny as Late Night, but there were definitely golden moments peppered throughout his 7-month run. The tiff with the Mayor of Newark? His current beasting on NBC execs? Wax Tom Cruise in the bathroom? Conan disguised as a senior citizen and testing the older demographic? Conando skits? Conan/Andy dubbing for Ghost in the Shell?

Hell, the Tonight Show may have been weaker than Late Night, but Conan still brought the goods.