you are right.
seems i mix something up, tried a few other chars in the last weeks.
edit- ah, i meant forward mk…but its airborne i guess so most likely not doable.
@oceanmachine, can you test that out?
but when the current back mk is +2 and you can do m-ta on counterhit already,
shouldnt that mean that when its without counterhit +4 in the new version that you should be able to do it too?
vframe app says its +3 oh currently…maybe thats why?
I wouldn’t be able to confirm ch knee into TA anyway. That seems impossible
So walk speed change was bullshit too?
Most of this seems pretty good i wish they wouldnt have changed both his dash frames and hp start up, one or the other would have been enough. An i honesly dont know which i would prefer since they both effect oki and frame traps.
Mk. SS is - 10 OB and has less push back.
RIP
so backfist is a less shitty option sometimes? I dunno it doesn’t seem like a big deal
I don’t know about you, but I used mk.ss for zoning and chip damage pretty often.
I guess it depends on how much the push back was nerfed.
you just have to care more about the spacing now so that you really just use it at max range when possible.
cammy will most likely be able to punish it now at each range.
https://toolassisted.github.io/DIFF/#NSH_003_BAC
This is very hard to read and close to impossible if you don’t have a background in modding Street Fighter 4/5, but I do, so:
They substantially buffed the anti-air hitbox of cr.mp. The way it works is the first frame is like before, and then the 2nd and 3rd active frame the hitbox increases a lot horizontally and vertically.
Standing medium kick comes out 1 frame faster.
Can confirm that his dash is exactly 2 frames slower (19 frames now).
They buffed the size of the hitbox on standing heavy kick. It should AA more consistently now.
They may have nerfed the range of crouching medium kick, but don’t believe me without testing it first, it’s hard to tell what they did.
They removed 2 active frames from jumping medium kick.
No changes to walkspeed, in fact unless I made a mistake, no one in the game received a walkspeed nerf or buff.
Many other changes, but this is just the stuff I noticed scanning through a barely human readable json file.
@LurkBrian May I ask you if you can read the Laura changes for me in the Laura sub forum? I think I already found out most of the stuff by myself but there might be hitbox related stuff that I missed.
@LurkBrian does stand RH and the chained version of RH (forward into roundhouse) have the same, improved hitbox?
no, but its a weird thing because the TC version actually has a different hitbox, it’s actually way better than normal even in season 1:
old normal: http://watissf.dantarion.com/sf5/boxdox/#v1_3/A4B-5HK-8
old TC: http://watissf.dantarion.com/sf5/boxdox/#v1_3/A4B-TC_5HK-8
BUT they nerfed the width of that hitbox. BUT they also jacked up the forward movement by a lot, so when you do MK>HK you travel farther forward.
it’s a lot of effort to say: yeah you can use it as an anti-air if they let you empty cancel like you can now. although it would be real slow so ~shrug~
I guess I’m still confused about what they indend to be the best anti air options. I’m leaning toward unchained RH?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MjQqT6a_k4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hDaJKuRANA
Thanks to Sonic for posting this.
final patchnotes are out and i edited them into the start post of this thread.
Nash Season 2 Notes
[details=Spoiler]NASH
Hurtbox:
[list]
[] Adjusted hurtbox when changing direction while crouching
[/list]
Dragon Suplex (Forward Throw):
[list]
[] Reduced stun damage from 170 to 120
[] Reduced CA meter gain
[] Increased distance from opponent on-hit
[] Changed advantage on-hit
[/list]
Target Down (Reverse Throw):
[list]
[] Reduced damage from 140 to 130
[/list]
Air Jack (Air Throw):
[list]
[] Expanded hurtbox during animation in downward direction
[/list]
Front Step:
[list]
[] Changed total animation from 17F to 19F
[] Sped up when Nash begins to move forward by 1F
[] Shrunk collision box while moving
[/list]
Back Step:
[list]
[] Reduced distance moved
[/list]
Standing LP:
[list]
[] Added hurtbox around feet during 4F-8F of animation
[/list]
Standing MP:
[list]
[] Changed attack recovery from 13F to 15F
[] Advantage on-hit and block have not changed
[] Added hurtbox around feet during 6F-10F of animation
[/list]
Standing MK:
[list]
[] Changed attack startup from 8F to 7F
[] Reduced overall animation by 1F
[/list]
Standing HP:
[list]
[] Changed attack startup from 7F to 8F
[] Increased total animation by 1F
[] Added hurtbox around feet during 8F～14F of animation
[] Shrunk forward hitbox during first active frame of attack
[] Shrunk lower hitbox during active 2F-3F, and expanded upper hitbox
[/list]
Standing HK:
[list]
[] Shrunk torso hitbox
[] Shrunk forward hitbox during active frames
[] Expanded hurtbox in forward and upward directions during active 1F-2F
[] Expanded hurtbox in forward and downward directions during active 3F-6F
[/list]
Crouching LP:
[list]
[] Shrunk upper hitbox during first active frame
[] Expanded hurtbox during active 1F-3F in upward direction
[] Increased pushback on-hit
[/list]
Crouching MK:
[list]
[] Shrunk upper and inner hitboxes
[] Moved position that animation begins after taking damage or cancelling attack forward
[] Accordingly adjusted position of hitbox, hurtbox, and collision box
[] Sped up activation when cancelling into V-Trigger by 1F
[] Advantage on V-Trigger (Sonic Move - Hide) cancel is now +3F to +4F
[/list]
Crouching HP:
[list]
[] Changed advantage on-hit to +6F to 7F
[] Expanded hurtbox during 1F-6F of animation in forward direction
[] Reduced pushback on-hit
[] Changed hit property to forced standing hitstun
[/list]
Crouching HK:
[list]
[] Reduced damage from 100 to 90
[] Increased advantage on normal hit by 2F
[/list]
Jumping MK:
[list]
[] Reduced active frames from 7F to 5F
[] Shrunk lower hitbox
[/list]
Jumping HP:
[list]
[] Changed attack startup from 6F to 7F
[] Shrunk lower hitbox
[] Expanded hurtbox that appears first active frame in upward direction
[] Extended active frames from 4F to 5F
[/list]
Jumping HK:
[list]
[] Changed attack startup from 8F to 9F
[] Shrunk lower hitbox
[/list]
Neutral Jumping HK:
[list]
[] Expanded hurtbox during active 1F-6F and attack recovery in downward direction
[/list]
Chopping Assault:
[list]
[] Shrunk forward hitbox
[/list]
Knee Bazooka:
[list]
[] Shrunk forward and lower hitboxes
[] Moved position that animation begins after taking damage or cancelling attack forward
[] Accordingly adjusted position of hitbox, hurtbox, and collision box
[/list]
Windshear:
[list]
[] Increased damage of third hit from 60 to 70
[] Increased stun damage of third hit from 80 to 100
[/list]
Raptor Combination:
[list]
[] Increased recovery of second hit by 4F
[] Advantage on-hit has not changed
[] Reduced damage of second and third hits from 70 to 55
[] Increased distance moved forward during second hit
[] Can be activated even when second hit is whiffed
[] Changed advantage on-block from -6F to -10F
[/list]
Bullet Combination:
[list]
[] Added new target combo, which can be activated by inputting MK to HK to MP+MK
[/list]
Side Knee Attack:
[list]
[] Changed attack recovery from 15F to 14F
[] Changed advantage on-hit from +3F to +4F
[] Changed advantage on-block from ±0F to +2F
[] Reduced pushback on-hit
[] Reduced pushback on-block to match reduced pushback on-hit
[/list]
Step Kick:
[list]
[] Changed attack startup from 13F to 14F
[] Increased total animation by 1F
[] Changed advantage on-hit from +2F to +3F
[] Changed advantage on-block from -2F to -3F
[/list]
V-Skill - Bullet Clear:
[list]
[] Increased damage from 60 to 70
[] Reduced V-Gauge meter gain on projectile absorption from 100 to 80
[] Increased V-Gauge meter gain on physical attack hit from 60 to 80
[/list]
V-Trigger - Sonic Move – Hide:
[list]
[] Changed start of invincibility during animation from 2F to 4F
[] Extended black screen on activation by 5F
[/list]
V-Trigger - Sonic Move - Blitz Air Sonic Move - Steel Air:
[list]
[] Changed start of invincibility during animation from 2F to 4F
[] Expanded hurtbox after Nash reappears in the air
[] Extended black screen on activation by 5F
[/list]
V-Reversal:
[list]
[] Reduced distance moved
[/list]
L Sonic Boom:
[list]
[] Reduced CA meter gain on activation
[] Increased CA meter gain on-hit and block
[] Changed advantage on-hit from -3F to -2F
[] Changed advantage on-block from -7F to -6F
[] Reduced pushback on-block
[] Added hurtbox around feet during active 1F-7F as well as around arms during attack recovery
[/list]
M Sonic Boom:
[list]
[] Reduced CA meter gain on activation
[] Increased CA meter gain on-hit and block
[] Changed advantage on-hit from -1F to ±0F
[] Changed advantage on-block from -5F to -4F
[] Reduced pushback on-block
[] Added hurtbox around feet during active 1F-7F as well as around arms during attack recovery
[/list]
H Sonic Boom:
[list]
[] Reduced CA meter gain on activation
[] Increased CA meter gain on-hit and block
[] Changed advantage on-hit from +3F to +4F
[] Reduced pushback on-block
[] Added hurtbox around feet during active 1F-15F as well as around arms during attack recovery
[/list]
EX Sonic Boom:
[list]
[] Reduced pushback on-block
[] Added hurtbox around feet during active 1F-7F as well as around arms during attack recovery
[] Extended input buffer between first and second hit by 4F
[] Changed advantage on-block for second hit from +1F to +2F
[/list]
Moonsault Slash:
[list]
[] Reduced damage from 70 to 60
[] Expanded attack startup hurtbox in downward direction
[/list]
EX Moonsault Slash:
[list]
[] Reduced damage from 130 to 120
[] Changed advantage on-hit from +6F to 7F
[/list]
M Sonic Scythe:
[list]
[] Shrunk upper hitbox
[] Reduced pushback on-block
[] Changed advantage on-block from -8F to -10F
[] Reduced knockback on-hit
[/list]
H Sonic Scythe:
[list]
[] Reduced damage from 120 to 110
[] Reduced stun damage from 200 to 150
[] Extended how long opponent is frozen in the air on second hit in the air
[/list]
EX Sonic Scythe:
[list]
[] Removed throw invincibility during animation
[] Shrunk upper hitbox during active 1F-2F
[/list]
L Tragedy Assault:
[list]
[] Increased stun damage from 100 to 150
[/list]
M Tragedy Assault:
[list]
[] Increased stun damage from 100 to 150
[/list]
H Tragedy Assault:
[list]
[] Reduced damage from 150 to 140
[] Increased stun damage from 100 to 150
[/list]
EX Tragedy Assault:
[list]
[] Increased stun damage from 100 to 150
[/list]
H Moonsault Slash:
[list]
[] Fixed bug that there was no counter box from when Nash leaps up until he falls down
[/list]
Judgement Saber:
[list]
[*] Reduced damage from 340 to 330
[/list]
[/details]
yeah, put them into the startpost and sorted them a bit a few minutes ago for a better overview.
edit-
i dont know…he seem to get nerfed quiet a lot but the overal cast got damage reductions. not sure about making moves slower on startup.
i have to test him out ingame vs the rest to see if its as wild as it might appear on certain things.
Yeah, I think slight damage & stun reductions are pretty much across the board. The target combo into VS is cool especially with cr.Fierce being +7 (really looks like want us to integrate this especially considering that EX Moonsault is also +7).
Can’t really see him changing too drastically.