Yea that sums it up nicely.
Who are most Nash characters going to be playing in s2, any suggestions?
I guess Guile seems most likely? Others?
i wouldnt give up so fast on him.
infils playstyle doesnt work anymore which people figured out anyway.
i doubt that bonchan will switch.
Can you describe the main differences between those 2 styles in your opinion?
thats my personal opinion and i dont expect anyone to agree with it or state it as a fact.
for me infiltration plays a much more random style with which he caught a lot of people especially
at the beginning of guard and he got away with a lot of unsafe stuff. a lot of dashing in getthing some damage then
dashing out and m-skythe/fireballs cr mp anti air. so a lot of back and forth, very active playstyle which got toned down
with the dashes and skyth changes.
bonchan has a much more grounded and “solid/calm” style.
I can see what you are getting at there, ofc the motion and better options helped both of them but maybe infiltration used it more.
We need to work on his setups again, especially after HKSS.
Even without the dash change the opponent lands differently now, must be that note about the “freeze in air on second hit” change.
It’s definitely going to be more difficult to apply his better pressure options when they limited his movement. The Moonsaults are easier to punish, some of his heavy buttons were made slower. I don’t know if b+MK (which is super good now tbf), and the better fireballs even make up for what he’s lost.
Midrange game has also been made worse, you can feel the MK scythe pretty bad after a few times. I believe they reduced the c.MK hitbox as well (though it does now combo off VTrigger).
His new TC is a nice option, but I don’t see it as anything that’ll land outside of like a jump-in or punish with c.HP and I guess meaty c.MP. The slower dash kind of messes with his meaty game as well. Double dash meaties after EX TA are no longer a thing.
Eh, I might be overreacting, just initial thoughts, maybe I’ll run into some nice stuff over the course of the week
crouch mk - ground teleport - cr/st lp possible
crouch mk counterhit - ground teleport - cr/st mp possible
crouch mk counterhit - ground teleport - back-mk possible
back-mk counterhit - mp traggedy assault possible.
back-mk counterhit - st/cr mp possible
cr mp - st mp- lp traggedy assault…think that was prior just possible with back mk right?
never used lp ta because of the small amount of meter gain/steal.
the new target combo moves you apruptly forward.
might catch people offguard so that you hit with the hk while the mk whiffed but pushed you forward.
you can extend it with a ground teleport to a ex scythe or knee bazooka as a reset.
wasnt one of his anti air normals supposed to juggle the opponent to do something out of it? 
edit- he feels so damn slow…really have to get used to it…meanwhile balrog is smiling at me…funny thing.
you can play the dash style much better with him now or urien.
i saw nash always as a universal char…not the best in each aspect but decent…dont know how i should sort him now in.
OK, maybe I wasn’t overreacting. I’m feeling the limitations in his movement more and more. If he’s meant to be a stationary/defensive character throwing Booms to advance, why not just play Guile who can actually walk in and has a reversal?
Luckily I had consistently played Juri and Mika on the side, I feel like I can move them up to main status. I personally don’t think I can get around the movement, midrange and normal startup nerfs, sucks maybe someone else has some good shit but it seems like everyone has abandoned ship lol.
I’ll say. It’s his only TC that can be whiff canceled as well, which is totally odd looking. The entire Bullet Combination TC is very odd. I like that its damage is actually not terrible, and it rewards V. More V means Nash can overcome his damage reductions more readily. I DO think the biggest gaffe with it is actually just a question of choice. You never need raptor combination any more since the damage/stun on bullet combination are the same, as is the KD advantage-- AND the bullet clear ender can be canceled into VT for a followup, if desired.
Speaking of bullet combination. The second hit was adjusted to be a really weird juggle to accommodate the two enders. You can use mk-hk as a very broad long ranged aa, in a sense. If the MK doesn’t tag them (with the HK bringing you next to them for your followup), the HK can hit out of the air and it juggles clean. Trick is, it has to be quite high to allow for a followup. I’ve only ever gotten EX scythe to connect afterwards, and I’m not certain super is able to connect at any height. But I guess the juggle you’re after is TECHNICALLY there.
Personally, I think Nash being SO well-rounded was probably something an oversight. I think he was intended to be more extreme- throwing booms and dashing in for frame traps, with less middle ground (weak walkspeed, situational footsie buttons). “My” way of playing him was more opportunistic and not very reliant on excessive dashing (which is probably why I plateaued somewhat with him, but I digress). Throw booms, anti-air, and stay outside of their range until an opening happens-- aa EX scythe, or a punish arises, EX booms hit, and so on. Then you get your time to dash in and throw your weight around a bit (helped by the DP nerfs and cr.MP-b.MK being the tits). I’m just as likely wrong, of course, but to me that explains the strangeness behind nerfing his non-EX moonsaults. Nerfing his approach because approach (close moonsaults, dash up grabs) wasn’t intended to be so much his forte.
Plus there’s the +7 in a few places to further allow clean combos into mk-hk-VS, so obviously they’re making a play at much of his damage and sudden movement come from VT as well.
EDIT: Super works after aa mk-hk.
Nash is prob. the most honest fighter in SFV right now
His fluidity is totally off. If they had a problem with his dash speed, they could have knocked off 50 health and not touched m.SS, Vtrigger start up, and, oh, let’s not forget h.TA.
These changes not only impede Charlie’s ability to use frame traps to create ambiguity but they also diminish his return on scoring big hits. Realistically, with no wake up offensive options and only a single airborne three frame option, I feel like we’ve just lost too much ground here, guys. Even if he was winning major tournaments. There were other ways in which he could have been brought towards the middle of the tier list which could have made it more challenging for him to take certain risks (such as backdash/forward dash, etc).
Lost my ultra gold down to gold playing ranked after the patch.
Urien is hard to kill, Juri hurts and balrog is crushing, his Mk SS helped those matchups a lot.
Also more trouble with vega and bison, idk guys, I’m loyal I just don’t think he is as smart.
Anyone else feel like his ground normals get beat more?
I actually had a fireball trade with j.hk, that shouldn’t happen.
Played him offline for the first time last night.
If you can close the gap b+MK is like a dominant button upclose, you can easily confirm counter hits into c.MP or s.MP for good damage, stray b+MK hits will land you Jab xx Special for small chunks of damage. It can also get them to respect your upclose Sonic Boom game since they wont want to press buttons after b+MK.
Running isn’t as efficient obviously, his escape options are also worse, V-Reversal out the corner still has him in a shitty situation since he recovers closer, rushdown characters like Cammy or Ken can just continue the bullying. V-Trigger escape is a lot easier to punish even the ground one thanks to the added recovery.
The worst thing for me was the instances where his new Target Combo would whiff on the last hit making me lose on damage and V-Gauge. It happened multiple times as well. It’s not even like the V-Trigger cancel off it leads to anything interesting, they let you get EX Scythe, Bazooka Knee, or V-Skill again.
In essence, there’s no point playing this character unless you are a mindless loyalist. He’s slow, he’s clunky, he does less damage, and is insanely easy to punish now. There are no redeeming qualities to Nash outside of his cool looking animations.
is it just me or is j-mk to st/cr hp now easyer?
at least the cr hp seem to work just when you made a deep jump in mk.
What you say makes sense.
It is not good to be a mindless loyalist, that I know.
Does it seem like Nash is better for defensive minded players in Season 2?
tried playing s2 nash… made me want to kill myself. not only is he weaker and worse at everything he was good at… but all the other characters ARE STRONGER than before on top of it. Boy let me tell you fighting laura or balrog or akuma with the new nash… just don’t do it to yourself.
Does the double dash setup after hk scythe still work?
The Dash still works just don’t use S.Hp it seems like it only works on Back tech now. I’m sure your at +7 still but the new frames on dash and HP means you’ll get hit.
Also who balances stuff over a cap? I get making his v-reversal come closer so if ppl react or if its used at the wrong time they are now in range to do something but why not lessen the recovery so nash doest just sit there, waiting to get punched in the face. We already have pick our spots with it, don’t punish nash for making a smart move. If nash actually hit you then I could see what they were doing but this doesn’t make much sense.
Yeah they gave HK Scythe higher float to compensate for his slower dash, so double dash c.MP will still grant a meaty on normal tech.
As for your earlier question, he’s less defensive as his runaway isn’t as strong (nerfed dashes, VReversal and VTrigger). His fireball game is slightly better but it almost comes at a cost to everything else, to the point where you might as well just use Guile if you want a character that can run a defensive playstyle.