From what I’ve heard on here, it not longer has startup invincibility, and j.RH can no longer juggle. People have also said you can’t cancel into from a special move at all, but I haven’t seen footage of that.
it’s never had start up invincibility
Yea, you can sneeze on Nash and stuff his teleport.
Nash doesn’t know what invincibility is.
He would not be in that state if he knew what it is.
Capcom impresses me, combining chara design and game design isn’t an easy thing to do
Well if Nash doesn’t have one move with invincibility he need to harash players with his offense which I think he does a pretty bad job at. I had my loses against that’s because I’m unfamiliar with his normals/ specials
I want to understand their design reasoning with the Nash nerfs but buff the shit out of Bison and Birdie.
I want some confirmation on the changes for Nash between the e3 and PAX build but I think this is a compilation of the info we’ve gathered:
[list]
[] Crouch Strong/MP and stand Roundhouse/HK have weakened anti-air properties.
[] Can no longer cancel specials into his V-Trigger. * Unconfirmed and not sure if this is specific to whiff/block/hit.
[] Neutral jump RH has lost it’s juggle properties.
[] New crush counter normal(s). * Not sure which normal(s) received the crush counter property.
[*] Down and Neutral V-Trigger teleports have been swapped. Down V-Trigger teleports behind the opponent and neutral V-Trigger teleports above and behind.
[/list]
Universal changes to the cast, that impact Nash both positively and negatively.
[list]
[] Characters can no longer link medium/heavy normals from lights outside of a Counter Hit. Confirmed on the WSO stream that it doesn’t effect Nash’s target combos so you can still do cr.Short, s.Jab~Strong xx Sonic Scythe.
[] Successful use of V-Skills build about 1/7 or 1/8 of a V-Gauge stock. Down from 1/3 of a V-Gauge stock.
[] Critical Arts do less damage.
[] Characters now have a second V-Reversal.
[*] Walk speeds have been adjusted.
[/list]
It looks like they nerfed his combo extensions with V-Trigger, which completely sucks since that’s one of the things that made him interesting. Also, removes a lot of his come back factor with that high damage output. V-Skills building less V-Gauge is a universal nerf that effects everyone. It’s going to take a lot of fireballs to even build up a full V-Trigger. I think I’m mostly annoyed with the anti-air nerfs because his anti-airs were strong but situational.
I agree about Charlie in need of a strong AA game. If any problem I had from playing Charlie is his lack of reversals. Any character who got on top of me became an uphill battle especially Cammy and Bison. No overhead and his anti-air stuff is situational way beyond most of the characters thus far. I guess Capcom wants to make him semi-Guile-like in throwing Booms out and seeing what to do next. I mean his options allow decent offense and defense, but the nerfs sound like it limits his offense at the moment.
@ForeverZero his f.mp is his overhead, its really bad on block (and on hit for that matter lol) but it does the job on dowb-backers when trying to open them up
@Killey I REALLY hope this whole ‘no more links from lights’ thing is just a test because it sounds ridiculous lol. I guess that means cr.lk, st.lk into mp isnt possible anymore?
As far as his V-Skill goes, I think it works better as a mixup tool more than a combo extender and if its not super obvious where he is appearing until he’s active, could really shine in set play. I think I heard that his st.rh got the additional crush counter property btw.
I wish his f.RH would get the Crush Counter property because that would be pretty godlk given how often I counter hit with that normal. lol It wouldn’t even be that OP given that Bison’s s.RH is his new CC, is + on block, and links into cr.Strong on normal. R.Mika’s CC is her s.RH as well and it’s +2 on block.
s.RH being his CC wouldn’t be too bad if they kept the anti-air properties it had. It would probably see more use because right now it barely sees use as it is and Combofiend was saying they want to make all normals have a purpose.
I don’t see any set play happening since there’s no hard knockdowns in the game outside of Critical Arts and some characters select specials aka Bison EX Scissors (maybe it was EX Headstomp). If they reduced the recovery of his V-Triggers or something then maybe it could be used for resets like off of a cr.Strong AA…oh wait…
im just hoping Nash’s alternate costume makes up for all this shit. I want to lose in style!
I’m concerned about some of Nash’s specials, too. Too many seem fucking useless IMO.
I know the feeling. I feel somersault needs more frame advantage on hit. I should be able to get a combo off it. LK and MK Sonic Scythe should be safe when used at max ranges.
I’m absolutely fine with this game having less defensive options like no-hit-invincibility on backdash and no focus attack.
But when people get to really master this game with offensive/rushdown characters, this poor guy needs to be able to defend himself.
I’d just like him to have a decent reversal and I don’t want his V-bar will be mostly spent to run away like a little bitch.
not that he could.
Having a reversal would be nice but I don’t think he really needs it, atm. Outside of Bison being + on everything he really didn’t need it for any of the other match ups. It’s a matter of not getting put in that situation in the first place and he definitely has the normals to not get rush down by the other members of the cast in the beta. It might be a completely different story with the new characters and the overall changes in the game though.
I agree the reversal thing isn’t a deal breaker, his design just seems to lack focus. the only good thing you can say about nash is that he has two or three great pokes, but using them means staying in a range where your opponent can capitalize and you cant. beating bison means ignoring those ranges and rushing down, which is what they implied was the point of the character. so why cant he do anything at close range?
A rushdown character with a bad “divekick” and below average combo damage, good pokes and good hair? okay, maybe hes just Yang.
I had a harder time with Cammy then Bison.
yeah i think he potentially loses to cammy and goes even or beats bison.
E3 build Nash is pretty good imo. Agree with @Killey also, he can get by without a reversal, it just means you have to use the default defensive options that the game gives you. Considering you can choose to tech or backroll (or nothing), waking up was rarely a problem. Just meant I needed a good read on what the opponent wanted to follow up with.
Maybe people didn’t adjust to using his V-Reversal either. Using V-Skill as a poke and anti-air as well as nullifying projectiles, means you can typically keep at least one V-stock handy if the matchup requires. e.g. Against Bison. Against his corner pressure, Nash’s V-Reversal flips the switch. Now you have Bison in the corner, and Bison has no good EX reversal either and a shittier V-Reversal.
Oh and Nash definitely has options at close range… I didn’t run into a single player that could deal with his s.LK frame traps and I also didn’t run into a Nash making use of them. The frames speak for itself. 4 frame startup, +3 on block, +9 on counter hit. He definitely has buttons but a lot are situational. He has no single button to rely on and I guess players are usually after that one multi-purpose button.
In any case, those defensive issues can be worked around… I’m just worried about his anti-airs. In the E3 build, his c.MP in conjuction with his c.HP and V-Skill meant you could play a really solid anti-air game and just shut down jumpers. With anti-airs trading more, he’ll just be eating damage almost for free.