My training partner makes me want to quit SF

Newbie Saikyo Dojo
1

First post on SRK. Hope it goes well.

First, allow me to provide some context to my situation and a little background on my experiance with SF4. If you dont care, skip to the main topic:

[details=Spoiler]So here’s my story.

I’ve never been big on SF, or fighters in general. I picked up SSF4 AE a few years ago because I wanted to finally break into this genre. Back then, I mained dudley and cammy, but never went very far because I had nobody to play with, and got destroyed online. I got sick and tired of putting so much time and effort into a game that only made me want to break my controller in half.

I came crawling back about a couple months ago and play almost everyday now, as I have finally found a training partner I can spar with. But as the title implies, he’s not exactly what I had hoped for. But I’ll get to that in a minute.

Now, I wouldnt really classify myself as a newbie. I would like to believe I’ve moved past that stage and am now just average at SF. I tried playing ken, akuma and balrog to an extent, but made it a goal of mine to start off fresh with a new main, and to me, juri seemed the most fun to learn.

I play on an xbox 360 with a SFxT madcatz fightpad. Storing just one fireball of juri’s renders nearly all of my buttons null and void, and I’m not terribly dexterous to begin with. I have trouble with links, no matter how much I practice. My thumbs are simply not wired to move and react at the speed the game demands. I think my FADC success rate is about 5/100, for example.

Taking all that into consideration, I’m still pretty good with juri. I’ve put 276 hours into this game, most of it spent playing my sparring partner in endless battle and practicing in training mode. I know her best pokes, how to cross up, what to punish with, optimal times to store a fireball, cr. mp is a gift from god, how to switch between defensive zoning and offensive pressure, how crucial meter is to her gameplan, and that her wakeup/reversal game is godawful. And that was before they made it worse in Ultra. Thanks combofiend.

Now, onto the topic at hand.
[/details]

My training partner is a better player than me. He’s played this game longer than I have and is pretty familiar with the entire cast. Keep in mind, he has not upgraded to Ultra (yet. I have Ultra, but it’s saved to an external device, so I can easily switch to AE when we play), so everything I’m covering applies to AE edition. Normally, this would be a good thing; you learn faster and you learn more when you play against better people.

Unfortunately, he’s not a very good teacher. To be blunt, he’s a tryhard. His top 3 mains are gen, evil ryu, and makoto, all of whom can combo into their ultras incredibly easily, which is how he wins a majority of his matches. He used to teach me as we played and helped me learn what I was doing wrong, but that all stopped as soon as I started earning a few wins.

I hate losing, especially in SF. It just feels more personal when I watch my favorite character get destroyed. That said, I can accept a loss when I am able to see what I did wrong.

“I shouldnt have woken up with ex pinwheel.”
“I dive-kicked too much.”
“I wasnt anti-airing enough.”

But when I lose to him, he never helps me understand what I should’ve/could’ve done differently when I’m unable to see it myself. When I lose to a strategy I dont know how to deal with (rufus dive-kicks, akuma vortex, literally anything gen does) and get noticeably frustrated, he’ll laugh and say “learn to punish it!” I often ask him how I can deal those strategies, reaffirming his ego that “no, I wont start bodying you if you help me learn how to overcome this one thing.” I never get a satisfying answer.

That part about his ego is true, btw. I probably lose a good 70% of our matches, which is likely a massive ego boost for him, as he maintains a certain air of smugness and composure during his usual 5 game win streaks. I get salty when I lose, yes, but when he starts losing, the salt is downright palatable. Yesterday, I perfected his makoto with my juri. His typical response to any loss is “oh my god…” but what he’s really saying is “i cant believe i let this scrub beat me.” He doesnt curse or scream, but it’s very passive aggressive:

“just throwing that move out there, huh?”
“wake-up ultra…wow.”
“fucking ex pinwheel.”

My response? “Stop pressing buttons.”

In fact, the first time I tried ken (after some decent experience playing with ken in 3rd strike online), I got 10 wins in a row. He couldnt believe it. “oh my god, everything you’re doing is so unsafe! just throwing out random moves!” The winstreak ended when he finally decided to try blocking. He always tells me to respect the space he controls, but never offers me the same courtesy, and gets really trigger happy sometimes, which is why he gets hit with wake-up ultras/DP. Also complains when I throw him a lot. I mean, if he’s right in my face, why shouldnt I throw?

So really, he stopped “teaching” me a while ago. Now he’s content to just up his win ratio. He’ll pick his mains when I outright tell him I want to try a new character, or play a character just to goof around. He also has the nerve to complain about dropping combos…after he wins the match.

Me: Screw it, imma pick deejay and just go nuts!
Him: -picks evil ryu, wins via DP>FADC>ultra1-
Me: :expressionless:
Him: B)

As I’ve said, he beats me a lot, and unless I’m having a good day and am on point, I just lose and lose and lose. There have been days where I got so fed up with it, that I just turned my xbox off in the middle of a match so I dont flip my lid and start cussing him out.

Losing to this guy at the rate I’m going makes me want to quit SF, and I dont want to. He’s not tier-whoring, at least, but at the same time, he relies on easy to hit ultra combos to win a majority of his matches, which is funny, because I’m quite sure that there’s currently a topic about comeback mechanics hurting beginners being discussed. Here I am with little ol’ juri who needs to rely on an unsafe dive-kick move to land ultra2, but makoto can just ex-command grab and hit for massive damage, evil ryu can FADC into ultra, rufus can pretty much do what he wants, gen can combo his super into ultra, etc. When I land an ultra, it’s because I made the correct read and had practiced for that very situation. When he lands an ultra, it’s because he wants to secure a win. That’s how it feels anyway.

I need new people to play against who are either closer to my skill level (so we can teach each other), or who at least arent such gigantic tryhards that they are actually interested in helping me progress into a worthy player. I feel as though I’ve hit a plateu lately, and I dont know how to overcome whatever it is that’s holding me back. I know I can win, I just dont know how to proceed from here and make it a reality.

EDIT: Here are some recent matches I played against my training partner.
vs rufus

[details=Spoiler]http://youtu.be/clSVw2W56vY
http://youtu.be/vsZP8kfNdCs
http://youtu.be/C8O-B1PAyqs
http://youtu.be/SRFWZq8iX6Y
http://youtu.be/nLFIyXAaBi8
[/details]

vs makoto

[details=Spoiler]http://youtu.be/ulOL7-06slo
http://youtu.be/bx30XMhPrS4
http://youtu.be/H_SDFMTs7TE
http://youtu.be/h_cZouzcNUg
http://youtu.be/4sy1GoRNOGo[/details]

EDIT: In this session, I focused primarily on upping my zoning with juri.
vs zangief

[details=Spoiler]http://youtu.be/3tRliSmsRZI
http://youtu.be/Z_IOX9OgiWk
http://youtu.be/VLdPCEFsLxQ
http://youtu.be/uBzkmO0SuIQ
http://youtu.be/97vURAIBvTM[/details]

2

you should record some footage of the two of you playing and post it here, then people here can give you feedback.

3

Well, you’re in luck, as I am the proud owner of an Elgato HD capture device. :slight_smile:

I’ve added some matches to the OP. One thing I’ve noticed after rewatching them is that I really need to step up my fireball game with juri, as well as cut down on the divekicks.

4

I play with someone who is almost the same way except I win more often than not. He’s very passive aggressive with what he says. I just accepted the fact that’s how he is. I’ve always loved helping other people get better at whatever game I’m playing at the time but not everyone is like that. Especially when they feel like they might lose because of it. Unfortunately I cant give a ton of advice in that area but I can help with some other things.

I would start by getting him to upgrade to Ultra, I’ve never been a huge fan of playing older releases of games after all they get patched for a reason.

  1. I don’t see either of you doing are set-ups. I can’t stress how important that part of street fighter is. Learn some simple safe jumps from a few of your knock downs. (Pinwheel and Throws) I’ll let you find these out on your own!
  2. I see you play really well in the neutral game at times. (Good pokes, anti airs and throws) but you end up giving it away by doing a crazy dive kick or Pinwheel. Don’t forget that in a long set if you manage to hit your opponent out of a couple of their pokes it can really stay with them. I like your use of stand HK against Makoto, those big hits stay with players unless you give them a reason to forget about it.
  3. Work on your fireball game. This is a continuation of #2. You’ll be surprised when you start seeing people who just can’t get through your fireballs no matter what they do. Especially against Makoto. I think you have to be a movement god to get through Juri’s fireball game. So once you hit him in the face with that Stand HK make him think about how much it hurt by zoning with fireballs a bit. Use your opponents frustration against him. I’ve landed 3-4 sweeps on people just because they’re frustrated they cant get to me.
  4. Dive Kick- I know this move is great. But in certain matchups it can be not very useful. I think Makoto is one of those matchups you cant really use it in. Againtst a fireball character? Dive away!
  5. Ultra 1! Ultra 1 can be a godsend against stun bot rushy characters like Makoto, C. Viper, and the like. You don’t have to learn anything super fancy with it. Usually activating it gives your opponent a good reason to respect you a little more.
  6. To finish my wall of text off I just want to say. Don’t get frustrated with yourself. I used to be my own worse enemy when I played. You have a capture card which is a great tool to help you learn. It just takes some practice and who knows you might win EVO next year!
5

I know what you mean by safejumps, but what do you mean by set-ups? What exactly is a set-up in SF4?

Thank you. Giving up an advantage in a match when I dont need to is a bit of a bad habit I’m still in the process of breaking.

Well, have I got good news for you. In today’s session with my training partner, I focused almost entirely on playing juri’s fireball game. At first, I played against another player who joins our sessions regularly, though she lacks a mic. To be honest, she’s not that good; she mashes a lot, throws out random moves, hail mary ultras and supers, seems to have no concept of meter management, and doesnt learn from her mistakes. She also gets on me for “complaining too much.” Well, besides what I mentioned, her connection sits anywhere between 1-3 bars. So I think I have plenty of reasons to complain.

And if you think I’m kidding about the mashing, watch her inputs.

[details=Spoiler]
Here’s her playing zangief vs my zoning juri.

And her main, t. hawk.
http://youtu.be/UALrqPNEKTk[/details]

My training partner decided to play zangief against me afterward, likely in an attempt to show her how she should have played the juri/gief matchup. Other than a few lucky games where I laxed and didnt zone as much as I should have, I win most of them. We played several matches, but these are just the highlights. I still make some bad reads and dive-kick a bit much, but it’s hard to resist when my opponent keeps getting hit by it.

[details=Spoiler]http://youtu.be/3tRliSmsRZI
http://youtu.be/Z_IOX9OgiWk
http://youtu.be/VLdPCEFsLxQ
http://youtu.be/uBzkmO0SuIQ
http://youtu.be/97vURAIBvTM[/details]

He was so incredibly salty. “Oh my God! You play like such a bitch!” he said. Well, what did he want me to do? Stand there and let gief walk up to me uncontested? That’s not how this matchup works, friend. Maybe stop picking gief just so you can prove a point.

Eventually, he did, and picked his tryhard character, evil ryu.

Spoiler

http://youtu.be/FDK6J9o_GIY

He demanded a rematch. I wanted to call it a day, but he was very insistent.

So I picked cammy. :slight_smile:

“You are such a dick.” He really wanted to get back at my juri. But I pretty much threw the match so he’d calm down. It was the saltiest of runbacks. He also complained that I “dont do any combos.” So what? Just because you spent a few hours learning like 2 BnB combos with evil ryu doesnt mean I need to learn some long combo chain too. If I can beat you with fundamentals alone, maybe you’re the one with the problem.

So in the end, I played some heavy juri zoning, and made my training partner super salty, which only caused him to make more mistakes.

Indeed. That’s another bad habit I need to break. But I think I’m getting better at dive-kicking on reaction as opposed to just doing it when I think it’ll hit.

I think I may make the switch to U1 soon, even though I really like the raw damage from U2. U1 seems like it’s more reliable, even if you’re usually low on health when you can make use of it.

Thank you. I’m really not interested in competing, but I do intend to become a better player.

In the meantime, I’d welcome new people to play with. I have Ultra, but it’s on an external device, so I’m able to easily switch to AE until he upgrades. I mean, this was supposed to mostly be about me looking for new sparring partners because mine was kind of a bad teacher, but then it kinda evolved into this big gameplay dump topic, lol. Well, hopefully anyone who bothers to watch all of these will have a handle on how I play, and whether I’m worth playing against or not.

6

What’s to stop you from getting another training partner?

7

I dont know anyone else who plays SF. Thats why I joined SRK and started this topic.

8

Ahh. What city do you live in? There are matchmaking threads an info on local meetups here. You’ll get better playing locally anyway than online generally. There are some good players here though that would be willing to help you out.

9

I live in california, near San Francisco. I’m not really looking for local play, as I dont have a reliable means of transportation. But anyone in the area would be great to play against.

10

Ultra 2 is WAYYY better in USF4 just because of red focus. I would like to see you anti air lots more. If you go into training mode and make a bot jump at you, you’ll get used to doing it on reaction. Juri has some really solid anti airs with cr. MP and cr. HP. Also practice dive kicking those fireballs. If you can dive kick some of those its gonna net you a ton of free damage and possibly an ultra.

Work on a block string too so you aren’t pinwheeling on block and getting punished. I always use Cr. LK > St. LK > Cr. MP. you can end that with a HK pinwheel if you hit them or a fireball on block to push them away.

As far as set ups go. Lets say I’m playing C. Viper and I get a forward throw you. I can dash and buffer a Thunder Knuckle feint then super jump at you and you wont be able to reversal it. Thats a big part of the match because it forces you to block and give me another chance to get damage. Look up some Juri safe jumps and practice them. That alone will make you a much better player.

And why the 3/5 matches?

11

You mean why are the rounds set to first to 3 as opposed to 2? We just like it better with 3 rounds. It’s just more fun. Round 3 comebacks and all that.

12

2 out of 3 is tournament standard. Most people use that. Best to get used to that. Meter management in 3/5 is a bit different.

13
14

^Haha, it certainly feels that way.

15

Not gonna go in depth, but just a few tips on the Rufus matchup (this applies to any character really). When he’s doing divekick pressure, while annoying, he only really has 2 options which are throw or another divekick. The throw does about 130 damage, while his BnB does around 200 or if he has ultra TC into U1 does more than 400. So keeping all of this in mind, your best bet is to block and delay crouch tech with a normal that has decent startup and can beat a divekick if he delays it slightly (Juri would use cr.MP and Ryu would use either cr.MP or cr.HP. Learning to delay crouch tech is the most important part of this as it will tech the throw most of the time, while also blocking an instant divekick and having the potential to beat a delayed divekick with cr.MP.

Taking the throw is ALWAYS better when he has U1 stocked, because he can combo it from so many different things, and quite easily at that. However, taking the throw when he doesn’t have U1 stocked is both good and bad. It’s good for the fact that it does much less damage than his BnB, but it’s straight horrible if the player knows ambiguous divekick setups after the throw (worse after DWU but still viable if he reads that you’re not going to DWU). So what I suggest, is for you to try to continuously practice against ambiguous divekick setups and being smart about DWU usage, so that if you have to make the decision between getting thrown or getting combo’d, then you know getting thrown is the best option.

During neutral, abuse st.MP cr.MP and a2a j.MP against his divekicks, as they are all great buttons that will make him think twice about going ham with divekicks. Once you discourage him from going to the air, this is when you can easily outfootsie and zone the fuck out of him since he doesn’t really have good buttons. Oh, and if you can try to store an HK fireball for at least 40-60% of the match, as it will destroy any attempt to do high divekicks at mid to close range.

That’s all I got, I only played Juri for a month so I don’t know everything about the matchup, but Rufus is pretty much a one trick pony so it’s not that hard to transfer matchup knowledge between characters. Hope this helps.

16

What do you mean by delayed crouch tech? I know you can hold down-back and press throw for an option select, but that’s all I’ve got.

If you mean delayed wakeup, we’re still playing on AE.

17

Fuck me to tears.

Today’s session didnt last long. Guy was playing t.hawk and I just couldnt stop those goddamn condor dives. Or the bodysplashes. Or the mashed out SPDers. I just…what did I do wrong?

[details=Spoiler]http://youtu.be/QlJOqNPU-wE
http://youtu.be/6IVbS0U2DdI
http://youtu.be/OAj3wvlFuQw[/details]

The guy was being especially douchey today. Every time he landed a SPD, he’d go “Oops.” And every time he mashed out a SPD while getting hit, he’d go “OH HOHOHOHOH!” Then he has the nerve to tell me to “learn footsies and how to hit confirm.”

Please, for the love of God, I need new people to play with. Even the chick who joins us seemed to be sick of this crap (she booted him from the party before leaving. her way of saying “fuck you”).

18

He probably see’s you as a rival, me and my friend are like dead even on Melee, and whenever i learn a little weakness from him now, i don’t tell him about it, cause i’m sure he does the same, nothing beats the walk home from each others houses thinking “damn, he won more today, wtf was i doing >.>” Then going home and thinking about what you’ll do different next time, ah yes.
But if he’s been playing longer than you like you say he has, then damn, what a insecure jerk, he should start doing that once he knows for sure you caught up, but nope. At least it will be all the more sweeter if you ever surpass him, and just keep owning him over and over, that outta make him rage.

19

os cr.mp ~ lp+lk or cl.hp ~ lp+lk vs dive yolo players.

20

Hit up some FB groups too, at least here where I live people do car pool if you ask and talk with them. You might have to give up some gas money but you’ll learn waaaaaayyyy more offline anyway, plus cali does have good players who can teach you stuff if you ask them. You’ll also make friends…Unless you’re an asshat, but you seem like an alright guy.