since the framedata is out its profen ONLY a BIT BETTER recovery on MK(hit) its still highly punishable on wiff/Block and some moves got framedisadvantes overall gife got nerved badly without any important improvement nicely done capcom Hakan here i come^^(i dont assume he is much better but at least he does not seem to hafe such bad matchups like gief
lol that’s actually my youtube page lol … i have posted most of everyone’s hit box’s and hakans grab boxes are fucking amazing
Damn you Capcom lol. Oh well, I’m gonna stick with him. Hakan is cool but i’m not entirely convinced hes going to be the next grappling golden boy. I’m gonna try to learn him a bit though. Geez Ultra 2s grab box is pretty awful isn’t it… It doesn’t even do that much damage… bleh…
I would almost never use U2. Against Feurte, Chun, and Honda… maybe, but I haven’t decided.
I have managed to catch Chun Lis ex spinning recovery move (forgive me for not remembering the name) more than once with U2 so I guess that’s something. Especially since its pretty tough to land a U1 on a decent Chun Li anyway.
Truth of the matter is, Gief got nerfed bad - while other characters improved. Gief in my opinion doesn’t stand a chance in high level competition anymore, he’s just not up to par with the rest of the characters. Sure, you can still win fights…I decided to play this week (after not playing since release) and I went on a 50 win streak - but then we created a high level room only with top players and I couldn’t compete at all. It was just silly and ridiculous. So basically what I’m trying to say is - Gief is still Gief, but a shittier version. He can still win your casual match, but at high level play - you’re better choosing someone else. I may not be as technical as some of you when it comes to numbers, but here’s what I’ve noticed:
Green hand startup is slower?
Jump is slower, (pretty much just don’t jump at all)
damage nerf including ultra
Ultra 2 is complete trash, even after fooling around with it
lariat is still good
cr.lk combo is harder to pull off
His normals didn’t seem to improve for me (like some are saying) and standing MP is sucky
Overall, the “feel” of Gief is just so slow and off timed
Bottom line (again) - Gief got hit bad with the nerf stick, while the majority of the characters improved (even the ones that didn’t need to) and the new characters are all good…Gief didn’t get anything GOOD to help him stay in the game with the rest of the chars at high level
^ I agree, I didn’t consider myself a great Gief but I have been getting worked by alot of players who I played with in Vanilla and held my own against. I just am having a hard time seeing why capcom decided to change Gief at all. I mean its not like Gief players were wrecking major or minor tournaments. I have played against Ryus in the past couple of days and it really really opened my eyes to how backwards this update was. I am seeing people who I considered ok Ryu players now turn into link masters. And I wondered why so I go into training with ryu and is it just me or have his links gotten easier? This is just one character that I have noticed who has gotten better and totally didn’t need it. Mean while back to the bottom of the tier list for Gief, it was good while it lasted a whole year or awesome Gief. I guess its back to like it was in hyper where I got laughed at for thinking Gief could compete on a high level. Thanks Capcom.
Well here’s a spin-off question…say Gief is your main, and you do want to compete…who do you switch to?
I’m still maining Gief simply because of the time I’ve logged, and my sheer comfort level with him is uncomparable to my other characters (Gen/Sim/Rose/Vega/Honda/EF), but I’m just curious who folks are picking up for high level comp.
- :bluu:
Well I my case I mained 2 Gief and Rog so I will just go to Rog for now, maybe pick up able since I still love grappler’s.
Frankly I didn’t think Gief was a very good tournament character even before. As far as I know, Gief never won a major either individually or in a team setting, and never even got top 3 individually. When you look at which characters did at least one of those things, it’s like half the cast: off the top of my head, Abel, Akuma, Balrog, Blanka, C Viper, Chun, Dhalsim, E Honda, M Bison, Rufus, Ryu, and Sagat.
Of course, that mostly had to do with the fact that Gief lost to the best 3 characters in vanilla, each of him is worse now by at least a little bit. Unfortunately, Gief is worse by about the same amount, so whatever possible gains he could have gotten in those matchups are kinda out the window. At the same time, most other characters in the game are better. I think Gief probably has more even and losing matchups now than he did in 4.
I don’t think Gief is low tier, but imo there’s no doubt that he’s significantly worse.
I mained gief because I usually always end up maining grapplers in fighting games. I liked gief and still do because I think he was a good balance of power and technique. Powerful command grabs but also a variety of damaging close range combos that took skill to pull off. A lot more fun to play imo than a much more straight foward grappler like t-hawk. Now I would never proclaim myself to be a street fighter God but I think I was pretty good at vanilla and I am not one to pat myself on the back. However I do find it more frustrating now. I still think he is decent but he is not quite the close range wrecking force he once was.
I have to admit, Gief is not “the same”
Gameplay-wise, yes, he pretty much plays the same, but he’s not Gief. I can understand the logic the devs had about Gief not being a “combo machine”. Look, I get that. He’s the original grab beast. EX GH combos doing ~200 vs ~300 before, okay, fine with that. “Nerfed” lariat should actually be called “fixed” lariat, as honestly, it shouldn’t peg crouching people in the first place. Fine I’ve dealt with that, simply b/c I didn’t use it after getting punished the first dozen times on grounded peeps. With all of this, I can deal with the health nerf as well…ALL of you can admit, it was a bit much. His normals feel the same for the most part to me, with the exception of the c.lk stuff, and better timing on the s.lp > s.mp link.
Here’s the thing about all of this. Why nerf the SPD? If the purpose was to return Gief back to the “Old” Gief, then why nerf it? If anything, the damage and range should’ve been buffed. LP = 220, MP = 240, HP = 260. LP SPD should be able to grab people just outside of sweep range, not have to be within it (look at videos of Super Turbo range/damage, you’ll see what I’m talking about). A less horizontal jump, they should’ve decreased the startup jump speed to match the rest of the cast. I was also SO hoping that his U2 would’ve been a modified version of his AA super grab from the Alpha series.
I guess the ONE thing I can be happy about is that his GHs can cancel out Seth’s and Sagat’s rather high projectiles now. But you still don’t gain any “hit” advantage when doing so. Even landing a predicted GH/projectile cancel in-front of a shoto or Sagat, you can still be hit by spam uppercut. Why is Gief at negative on a special move HIT again?
I’m still playing Gief, but I added T.Hawk to my arsenal as well. I’m not quite bitter about the nerfs, just questioning the logic. Matches take FOREVER now. I thought I had to be patient before in Akuma and Sagat matches. Yeesh. With the GH combo nerfs and the SPD nerfs, I have to land 2-3 more of each per match to finish up everything. And anyone who’s ever played a really good match knows how difficult getting those opportunities might be when playing as Gief.
fucking finally,… the good players speak up lol . Wow, man… i mean, every other gief is saying the same thing. They could have dealt with the damage nerfs ,jump, and lariat. but w6 dhy man, i mean, the whole purpose of a grappler is for them to wreck havoc when they get close ( which now is bull shit, people can just mash on back dash all damn day.) . I mean, it doesn’t make since.I mean, fuck it’s like tager in bb … he spent all day getting in but when he got in it was fucking over. I mean, nerfing cr.lk was just fucking stupid man, fucking stupid and jump. I mean, fuck it, ok let’s nerf is cr.lk ok … but then why in the fuck would you nerf his jump… i mean damn… that shit is already 6 FRAME START UP… OK LET ME SAY THIS AGAIN 6 FRAME START UP FOR A JUMP, WHY NERF IS JUMP, IF IT WASN’T GODLY TO BEGIN WITH . I love gief though at the end of the day but this isn’t gief . When gief hit you that shit is suppose to hurt, now, i am doing damage around 178 and 180+ in combos ( with a jump in attack ) wtf is that. A normal throw does 170 lol, well, time to start normal throwing the shit out of people .
i mean, even in hdr and st, when gief got close it was fucking over … over over i tell you. There was no getting away once he locked you down in the corner or even got close. The combos that he did, hurt … hurt bad for good reason, he spent the whole match chasing you and once he finally got to you time to pay… now it’s oh… gief hit me…oh well, that shit doesn’t hurt anymore.
Yeah, you know what, screw my measured response up there. This is ridiculous.
You have a character who never won anything significant even in a team tournament, who was not even represented in the Japanese national SF4 team tournament, who shows up twice in the top 50 bp in Japan (and not until #38!), who has only 2-3 regularly active high level tournament reps in the US, and you make him worse? You have a character who depends on dealing damage up close, and you make him less damaging up close? You have a character who already had a difficult time navigating many opponents’ traps, and not only do you not make it easier for him (which would have been reasonable given his damage nerfs), but you actually make it significantly harder by making his jump worse? You nerf his bad matchups, most of whom where tiered higher than him already, less than you nerf him? How you gonna give SAGAT extra cancelability on his normals, a slick powerup move, and a great new ultra, and yet make only Zangief worse? How you gonna leave Boxer almost entirely alone even though he was probably better than Gief in the first place?
Here were the complaints about Gief:
–I can’t attack him! Fine, I actually totally agree with this. But too bad, lariat is still just as good an antiair and its initial hitbox is just as good against the ground. BUT let’s make his lariat worse where it doesn’t need to be instead! All they had to do here was make lariat a worse antiair and make his antiair normals a tiny bit better, but nope.
–Matches last so long against him! Too bad, damage nerfs to most characters including Gief are gonna make those matches last at least as long still!
–I spend all this time keeping him out, and then he gets in once and all my work is gone! Dude, that’s his whole character design since forever. But alright, now he does less damage AND also has a tougher time getting in in the first place. Way to address the stupidest complaint about Zangief while not buffing him in other areas to make up for that, Capcom.
Imo Zangief no longer beats almost any of the characters he beat in 4. Of the returning characters, maybe he beats 5. That’s not necessarily bad; I’d rather all matchups be more or less even. Too bad Gief still loses to everyone he lost to in 4 while now also losing to others, like Guile and Chun and Honda and Dhalsim! Don’t put much stock in people saying he beats the new characters. At each stage of this game’s evolution, people have thought that the new characters mostly lost to Gief. In the end that just hasn’t panned out, especially when Gief is worse now.
In the end, Zangief is more frustrating to use and at the same time less effective. Capcom bowed to the ridiculous casual players whose problems with Zangief extended more from their lack of investigation into the game than anything real about Zangief, and for some reason they didn’t want to stop at just nerfing the lariat without even nerfing the part of the lariat that was worst for real game play.
I feel your Pain Gief players, I’m beating alot of Gief users now that used to own me hard in Vanilla. His jump change was totally unnecessary, the SPD nerf as well. He didnt even get something in return like most the cast that got nerfed.
God Speed Gief mainers, Time to switch to Hawk and forget the Russian wrestler.
I tried out Hawk but you can’t really do any hit confirm combos to knockdown so I don’t like that. I wish they could have actually held a forum with the pro level giefs when they made their changes. Instead, they made ridiculous unnecessary changes and just ended up making him shittier. There is no logic behind their changes. I’m still playing gief at the moment but I’m going to slow transition over to Ibuki. As much fun as it is to land those SPDs, it’s just too hard to play against high level players with gief now. Even if you wanted to main gief, you definitely need a back up main. I really don’t like crying about it over and over again but the cr.lk just kills me. I want to find the programmer that thought that was a good idea and smack him up side the head.
haven’t visited the gief forum in a while but i totally agree with ud and aquasilk. i’m not elite but am definitely solid and like aqua said, when playing decent players i can still dominate and/or hold my own but when playing elite players it feels like i can’t do shit now. the main head scratching nerfs i really don’t get are the hideous jump, spd damage nerf, and the cr.short bullshit? the cr.short thing might be the most mind boggling thing to me. why the fuck would they make the link harder now?
i guess the one good thing about him getting worse is that it forced me to play other characters whereas in vanilla i basically strictly only played him.
not even gonna comment on the complaints of a B tier character, but i do wish his SPD damage stayed the same, and his c lp didnt get damage reduction if u use it in combos, as well as the c lk nerf
i still like using gief, and will still use him in tournaments, except this time around im actually using other characters (not so much for counterpick measures but more of a gameplay issue, for example picking cody VS turtlers or picking cody over gief based on the opp’s gameplay)
anyways this is starting to become a sf4 guile/vega board
Dude are you serious, gief can barely… fucking barely break 200+ damage without a jump in hp and his cr.lp does fucking shitty damage that’s why gief’s never used that shit, even in vanilla because cr.lk was so good and you can hit confirm it. I mean, of course you can always do .st.mp green hand but come on, you can’t hit confirm that shit lol . B tier, or what ever tier has nothing to do it. People are not complaining about how well he dominates, people are complaining about the overall character’s design and effectiveness as grapplers, that’s what we are mad about. Who cares about tiers…but considering that no one has unlocked every characters true potential you can’t even say that he’s in a B teir … tell me, how can you… you can’t.
i understand that but all of this bitching/whining wont get you anywhere, i mean look at the vega players in sf4 when he was clearly ass tier, they just kept on using him despite his glaring weaknesses, and guess what? some real good vega players surprised the fk out of some people with new shenanigans and whatnot
i mean look at sabres sakura, we all know sakura isnt that great of a character in sf4 but he did work with her, just use who you like to use and quit bitching about stuff that is out of our hands
i already said i wish spds were normal damage as in sf4, and that c lp combos ddnt do shit all when u use more than 2 c lps, or the fact u can just backdash a c lk combo, either way im still using gief and i still like using him despite his apparent nerfs
theres a time and place to rage about a character’s flaw/design but i mean there are too many threads like this and comments on how he ‘sucks’ now that its becoming a guile/vega board where instead of helpful tips and tricks to get over the hump, there are whining discussions about gief
thats all im saying