The advice against DJ helped. The match up went from what would have probably been 3-7 to 5-5. I also found that cr. fierce works surprising well as anti-air against Gief’s body splash. Does it beat Hawks body splash, too? I tried the other night and it didn’t really work, I’m not sure if I just had bad spacing or just go unlucky. Also, is there any normal that counters Honda’s stupid j. short butthop thing, like cr. fierce? Butthop into Ochio destory’s Boxer, so if I can stop it, that’s one less thing I have to worry about.
Also, I lost a match to Honda because I tried to punish his super in between hits instead of waiting to punish the recovery like a smart person. Major disappointment in myself.
Yep, cr. fierce works well against Gief’s jump-ins. There are a multitude of anti-airs that Boxer can do to counter any of Gief’s jumpins. The only problem is if Gief gets close (i.e., within footsie range) and jumps, only a fast reaction headbutt will save you. Even that is not foolproof as often you’ll be baited into spamming cr. strong, and Gief will jump while you’re still in recovery and can’t headbutt soon enough. Something to watch out for in that matchup; keep your distance, try to prevent Gief from getting within footsie range (meaning, jump backwards if you must).
I believe the same thing applies to Honda, as he’d likely be trying the j.short tick when he’s close (almost within his sweep range), and got you nervous thinking about ground moves like hands/sweep/whatever. Again the headbutt is the best percentage response.
More importantly you should be working on avoiding these situations in the first place; against Honda especially keep him no closer than mid range. If he tries to spam hands to get close, a well timed cr. strong beats it. Standing jab (mashed) is the well known counter to Honda headbutts. If he jumps from mid or larger distance, a well timed kick rush should beat it. And again, if he jumps from close range be ready to headbutt on reaction.
One other thing – if Honda has super you have to play very defensive thanks to the stored super glitch. Also, don’t get baited into unleashing your own super before he does, because a good Honda can actually unload his super during Rog’s, as Rog goes into a non-hitting frame.
Crap, I usually have kick TAP charged. I should work on mixing up charging TAP with using kick rushes. Also, I read that kick rush beats lariat. So I tried it out. I did get hit out of it, but another time, I managed to beat lariat clean. This amazes me since I would have thought Gief’s swinging arms would have knocked me out of the way. If this works reliably, it would be better than low rush. I have low rush wiff through quick lariat too much lately.
Also, thanks to everyone on this thread. I know I ask a lot of questions (sometimes one with obvious answers), but I really appreciate you all for taking the time to share your knowledge.
The reason you get hit by Gief’s lariat is most likely because you tried the kick rush from too close. The sweet spot lies around mid-range (but not farther) where you can kick rush and it should cleanly beat the lariat. Watch for spammed standing jabs though, which you should counter with a quick standing fierce before he lariats. Standing fierce also works well against Gief’s who are trying cr.forward or cr.roundhouse too much.
In the Honda matchup, I would advise against charging TAP for too long. This is especially important because the negative edge trick with getting kick rushes whilst charging TAP doesn’t work anymore in Remix. I’d personally only go for an occasional 1 or 2 level TAP, and no more.
My usual answer to shoto fireball spamming is jab headbutt jab straight rush, mixing up when I need to. Last night I was playing against Akuma would was able to punish my jab headbutts with a jump in. I don’t know how it was timed, but basically he would come down on top of me as I was recovering and hit me with some kind of j. kick. Can all shotos potentially do this?
So, no one’s posted in a while so I’ll post the stuff I’ve learned since the last time I posted something.
Against fireball spamming chun, you can kick rush right after a jab fireball dissipates and have enough time to headbutt through another jab fireball. I’m not sure if this works on the faster fireballs, or if this is even useful since it leaves you outside cr. strong range. Standing fierce maybe? I haven’t had a chance to keep playing with it. Maybe you guys know a use for this.
Against gief, I stopped using TAP for a while, but now I’ve started using it again. It doesn’t work against Giefs that like to lariat, but it works well on giefs that like to sit back and wiff normals. If you space it right (as in at max distance) tap will usually beat giefs normals and at worst trade. I usually use level 1 TAPs to apply pressure. After you land a TAP it puts you at a nice position. Gief is too far to do anything to you. If he jumps you get a free short kick rush. If he sits back he’s wasting time. You might even want to low rush or go in for another TAP. I also didn’t believe that kick rush was that good against gief (since if you wiff it you’re dead meat) but you can use it to randomly knock down gief if he’s trying to walk in on you wiffs a 360, or tries to jump in. Much to my surprise it beats lariat much better than low rush. Also, it was mentioned before in this thread, but low fierce is an amazing AA for gief. You stand a good chance to trade, but it gets him off of you and you don’t lose your charge.
Honda’s still a hard match up for me, but I use low rush, stand fierce, TAP to slowly kill him. If he supers and I block, free low rush or even super if you have one. There was one player that caught on to this and I don’t know if I ever developed a counter strategy. Probably not seeing as I probably would have remembered something that important.
Against Blanka’s jump short tick throw, I’ve found that if I mash strong an fierce, I’ll end up grabbing blanka more often then he’ll grab me.
Against anyone, I’ve learned that for me personally, it’s better to block and deal with any mixups afterwards than to try to headbutt out. Since I’m sitting on a down back charge most of the time anyway, I usually get rush by accident when I try to headbutt out of crossups, even when I try to go from down straight to up (I probably do it too quickly).
So I played Coth_X last night and I got a pretty huge serving of humble pie. I think he had two in the fridge just waiting around and decided to cram them down my gullet before they spoiled. If you’re reading this, Coth, GGs. Even though I only won two rounds, I still had fun and learned a bit. In any case, I lost pretty hard to zoning.
Problem 1 Fireballs:
Usually against shotos I can just jab headbutt and then jab straight rush. Coth was too smart for that, so I had to resort to jumping in. My problem was that I kept jumping in short, so he would get a free walk up sweep on me. My question is, can I space it correctly so that he can’t do this? Like, if I had waited until I was a little be closer to jump in, does a j. mk/hk prevent him from walking out of range then sweeping? I also know I didn’t use enough float fierce. I kind of feel like headbutt is worthless against a shoto player who’s looking out for that. Jab fireball seems to be slow enough that shotos can punish my headbutts. So I guess I should just be using float fierce if I think their expecting me to try to headbutt through the fireball?
Problem 2 Ken wiffing normals:
So if I got close enough to where I could rush without eating a fireball, Coth would just throw out normals to keep me out. What can I do to beat this? Well spaced jump in? Far fierce?
Well, if you’re jumping and getting swept, you’re not jumping at the right time. You should use the forward jump sparingly, relying on jab or fierce headbutts (depending on range) to clear all fireballs.
Jump only when at mid or close range when you feel strongly that they’ll throw an errant fireball at that range.
Use a TAP (lvl 4 or lower to be safe) to close distance when they hesitate for a second in the fireball stream. This can be countered on reaction with a jab DP, but most Ryu’s can’t do this consistently on reaction to TAPs.
Against Ken you can try trading sometimes with cr. Forward, cr. Strong. Footsie spacing is incredibly important in this matchup, you want to space so you can immediately punish a whiffed jab DP with either a fast rush or one of Rog’s excellent normals. Ken’s zoning is even more potent than Ryu’s in this matchup, due to his standing roundhouse and spammable jab DP. Don’t get knocked down or you’re in for a world of pain with safe jump -> knee bash/dp mixups.
Jumping in against Ken is obviously unsafe considering his DP. Just be patient, and be willing to sacrifice your charge to gain optimal spacing to punish whiffed normals/dp’s.
Thanks for the advice! I didn’t really get a chance to test it yet. Also, are there any good follow ups after a float fierce? I’m still trying to learn how to use this move effectively. Right now I use it as a safe way to evade fireballs if I know my opponent is going to try to punish (especially against Sim). But as soon as I clear the fireball, I draw a mind blank. Sometimes I’ll be thinking about slowly advancing on my opponent, but that’s pretty rare.
While doing the floating fierce, charge for a rush punch.
You should either win clean, or a least trade. With a low rush, you’ll trip him giving you a chance to play the pressure game.
If I gave any advice, definitely seek out skeelo58/srk_boxer on PSN his srk name is skeelo58 but he tends to play HDR on the srk_boxer tag now.
Coupled with your patient game, he could show you some good rushdown strats. He loves getting close and staying close, and he actually has a harder time working past my hados than you did. However, he knows his pokes > rushes > pokes. His rushdown and your patience would be difficult to deal with.
it’s a 5 hit rush punch, and it works best imo when all the punches are straight. but sometimes you’ll throw this super out and like the middle 3 or last 4 will be all uppercut and it becomes duckable and even moreso punishable. is it possible to control this? what exactly causes the execution of either or? an explanation of this is much appreciated.
also, did any1 catch the evo matches? i thought in 1 instance i saw afro legends do a rush punch and immediately go into a super. how is this done when the charge was already used for the initial rush punch? i’m pretty sure he didn’t do a TAP into super.
^ That’s easy. When you charge the Rush Punch, IMMEDIATELY do B, F + punch again and it’ll cancel into the super. Its one of the things that makes Balrog so deadly in HDR. So:
<- -> P, <- -> P
I was messing around with Balrog a few weeks ago and I did it by accident, so I incorporated SFIV tactics into HDR.
Boxer Super:
You can activate super with either punch or kick. Punch super starts and ends with straight punches. Kick super starts and I believe ends with uppercuts. The three punches in the middle default to straight punches (maybe not for kick super?) unless you hold down a kick. So if you super then press kick or try to charge TAP with a kick, you’ll start throwing out uppercuts.
Rush into Super:
What Noriega said. It’s easiest with Kick Rush Super, though. Kick rushes have the shortest recover so you don’t have to wait as long in between the rush and completing the super motion.
Against Chun, I’ve noticed I can short (might be forward) Kick Rush after her fireball dissipates to close the distance, then fierce headbutt on reaction to a second fireball. Can anyone confirm this?