Oops, deleted the wrong post.
J bones was responding to me asking about wiffing normals to control space.
^^Saw that. But anyways.
Cr.mp is a big poke that lands a good damage and it creates space if blocked.
Cr.mk is a great poke too, if u wanna get in against Guile for example, you cr.mk beats his cr.mk.
Thanks man. I know cr. forward is character specific, so I use that when appropriate. I’ll try cr. strong some more. I just tend to hit more with cr. jab than cr. strong when I’m just wffing them in front of my opponent. I wasn’t sure about the trade off about safety, though.
Edit: Ha ha. Thanks for responding anyway. As you saw I was going to argue with more theory, but I decided to just shut my trap and try it out some more.
Hitbox Display can help tho.
take cr.jab and cr.short for example.
Catch the difference and try it out.
I know that cr.short can stuff shotos’ cr.mk by surprise. Let u know that. 
Is cr.mp the safest normal because it has no blue boxes in it? How about the other punches?
With gief, I often mix up with jab low rush, st. fierce, and j.fierce. For TAP, if an anticipated turtle gief starts to stand up, that’s when TAP comes in with a low rush follow up. Other than that, TAP is useless IMO.
Unless I’m mistaken low rush upper will stuff a wake-up lariat from Gief.
I never use tap on Gief. I’d much rather be able to occsionally stick out a cr. roundhouse on wake-up or as a long range poke.
I’m starting to use a lot of full-screen jab rushes against Gief players. It seems to be super safe to spam, as it will anti-air, whiff or trade lariats, punish forward movement, and sometimes punish sweep attempts. You can also look for forward kick rushes for a little more damage if you see Geif take to the air and react quickly.
Rog has this match won as long has he can stay on his feet and at far range. I think as a Rog player we always want to RTSD but here we really need to run away. The urge to go to work on a knocked down Gief is strong, but really it seems like other than an occasional low rush on wake-up, we should just avoid the nebulous game of being in close with Gief and just sit there as he gets up and wait for him to make the move.
Will it stuff either Lariat (3P and 3K)? I don’t think so, myself, given that a Ground Dashing Upper hits in the same place most jumping attacks hit…and those can be beaten cleanly by them if they are done right when they make contact with Zangief.
However, my question is…can either Lariat stop a Ground Dashing Straight? If not, then you’ve got a mix-up game now, brother! While Z’s twirlin’ 'round, you tack on the jabs and start your combo (or tick attempt, whateva’s your flava). He tries to block your next GDS…but you do a GDU…whiff…headbutt!
Dude…I just thought of that. That’s pretty tricky. Of course…crouching roundhouse would probably shut all of that down if he sees your rush coming, so you’d have to be close to start the shenanigans. Not a good idea against a man that can grab you out of anything, provided your feet are on the ground.
I really don’t know if it will beat both lariats. I’ll try to test tonight.
Lariats can catch a ground dash straight, and they can get hit by them. It depends on what point during the move it is and how far away Rog is. It seems that from Mid range forward that Rog will get hit, from just outside mid-range he will hit, and farthest range will whiff.
But the other stuff. See, that is the kind of thing that a Rog player wants to do right? But I think it’s too risky. Gief players live for that one SPD shot, and I think they are fast enough to react to the whiffed upper and punish with a throw. And if you get SPD’d then you are knocked down, and it gets worse from there.
This match is just plain hard for Rog. Once Gief gets in and pulls off a spd it’s incredibly difficult for Rog to make a comeback.
I’ll ask this question for you guys opinion.
Vs. a character with a command throw, that is Honda, Gief, or Thunder Hawk, what do you do after landing a grab?
A tick throw is usually out of the question, as the opponent will be doing multiple 360’s and button presses to virtually guarantee a throw. A buffalo headbutt will beat this, but in the off chance it will be blocked you will eat a 360 or 720 throw.
Backing up and preparing a rush is a good strategy, and is safe against Honda I think.
Against Honda I think you can walk under and do a far st. roundhouse for some good damage and it will be safe.
Against Gief you can walk under and do a jump away roundhouse and it will be safe I think. T. Hawk can do a tomahawk buster though if the player anticipates this and you will then have to deal with a cross-up attempt from T. Hawk. Not too hard to get out of though, and perhaps useful as an late-match gamble to ensure that the match will proceed according to your mind game.
A possible shenanigan is to walk back then use strong headbutt to possible stuff a counter attack, or land safely in front of them baiting a punish, but instead poking out with cr. strong xx whatever. I have had some good success versus Thunder Hawk especially using this technique.
Do you guys know if cr.fierce hits lariat? This worked in Hyper. Otherwise if a lariat happy gief is near, it’s cr.roundhouse to knock them down.
For tick throw loops from gief for Ehonda, I normally fierce torpedo out. I wonder if Rog can do the same.
Cr. mk. goes all the way to the ground (so it beats low pokes that go under cr. strong) and it has a bit of red in front of the blue. It’s also active for a decent amount of time so, as J. Bones pointed out, it’s great for countering Guile’s cr. forward. The only other move I know off hand its standing jab. Like with Boxer’s cr. strong, his whole arm is just red during his st. jab. Too bad you give up your down charge and it wiffs crouchers. Stops Honda’s torpedo most of the time, though, which is really nice.
I’m still on the fence on whether to use TAP against Gief at all. I usually like to use TAP against anyone that can’t duck far fierce. But Lariats mess up my block strings. I also use kick rushes to anti-air Gief out of anything beyond headbutt range.
So I’m still having a lot of trouble with Chun, but it’s getting better. Halfway through the thread there was something about strong low rush through fireball loops. If Chun is just spamming lp fireball, you can mp low rush right as the first fireball is disappearing and trade with her second fireball. That worked when I timed it well. I think I just have to watch her fireball more carefully. When she’s just doing j. lk in the corner I found that kick rush can trade and even beat her if you do it right. However executing it correctly isn’t the easiest thing in the world. The only time I was completely destroying her was when I pushed her in the corner and stood just out of cr. strong range and wiffed cr. strong repeatedly. My opponent would either walk into the cr. strong (trying to throw me I guess) or j. lk (which I was in range to counter with buffalo headbutt). I’m not really sure about this situation, though. I seem to remember her eating a cr. strong, but then being close enough to walk up throw or something. That and she might be able to just wall jump out.
Ugh this match up frustrates me to no end. But it’s a small price to pay for being able to play as a character that killed an elephant with his hands.
It’s possible to glitch super and punish Chun’s fireballs from full screen, but I’ve never been able to do it before. What you do is wait until the last frame before Chun’s fireball dissipates and then do short kick rush xx super. I have never successfully done this in a match but I read it on alt.games.sf2 a while back when I was looking for old info.
alt.games.sf2 is a goldmine of ST strategy that is still very relevant to HD Remix. You can access it and search it here:
I’ll have to try it out. It punishes her fireball without letting her even through out a second one?
I’m 100% it will connect clean with a second fireball, and I think it may even be fast enough to connect with the recovery of the first fireball. I’d need to look at frame data for that, but I almost never use frame data so maybe somebody who is more proficient could check for us?
Thanks. Man, I sure wish HDR had a programable dummy right now. Either way I’m sure it’s a least a way to get in on Chun.
[gripe]I hate it when I super through one of her fireballs but I still trade because the stupid thing is just so slow and sooooo wide.[/gripe]
I’m 100% it will connect clean with a second fireball, and I think it may even be fast enough to connect with the recovery of the first fireball.
So I tested this out today. Chun recovers before her fireball dissipates, so you can’t punish the recovery on her first fireball with this trick. However short kick rush stops you before you run into the second fireball. Super lets you blow right through the second fireball and you get all 5 hits. The only thing that sucks is that it seems like you pretty much have to out guess your opponent. From what I saw, I think fireball jump lk or fireball, wait, jump lk on reaction might be able to beat this trick.
Also, any tips for DJ? You can’t headbutt through sonic booms safely. Sonic booms obviously beat rushes. And jumping in on DJ is rarely a good idea. I wasn’t smart enough to try float fierce. I bet that’s a big part of victory. Oh yeah, I couldn’t figure out what normals I could use to beat DJ when he was wiffing cr. jab and cr. strong to control space.
Against DJ it’s very important to keep track of when he has charge. Don’t headbutt his max-outs if he’s within sliding range, as that’s an easy and obvious punish. If he throws a max-out and walks forward, you know he has no charge, so it’s a perfect time to attack (make sure he’s not too close, otherwise some normals will stuff a rush). Floating neutral j.fierce can also work. Be mindful of using TAP when Deejay has a charge; they can and do upkick TAP on reaction. Related to the above advice, you can charge TAP whilst j. float fierce’ing the maxouts, then release TAP when Deejay walks forward. One last possibility if you’re desperate is to j. fierce at Deejay when he’s really close and walking towards you.
To summarise: keep track of when they have charge and try to gain as much ground as possible when he’s not charged for max-outs (i.e., walking forward). Know the range of his slide. The safest use of TAP is when he has no charge for upkicks.
Deejay has excellent crouching normals, and I’m not sure if anything completely beats him (like spamming cr. forward against Guile stuffs his normals up close).
Good Deejay’s will cross you up all day if you ever get knocked down, so try avoiding that at all costs. The worst that can happen is you get thrown from a crossup, so keep your defence solid and ready for the throw tech.
Also sometimes when they’re real close they’ll try jumping at you twice in a row to catch you offguard in a quick crossup. Either block the crossup if you can’t react fast enough, or st. strong should beat it cleanly.
Note that once you have them in the corner it’s a very easy fight, as is the case in most of Boxer’s matchups. Fierce headbutt will beat maxouts cleanly, low rush -> st. fierce applies pressure and also places you at a good distance for another rush. Many Deejay players lose their cool when they’re trapped and getting pounded in the corner; often they’ll try short upkicks in desperation, so expect this and bait it for the easy punish and knockdown reset. Whiff rush throw mixups work especially well against Deejay too.
Thanks for the advice! I’ll try it out sometime.
I also had a question about the match up against Sim. Specifically, what are your options at the beginning of the round? I always for for jab low rush. If Sim jumps, I headbutt. If he blocks, I stand fierce. If he gets knocked down I store a charge. My goal is to push him to the corner where I can easily low rush, fierce, TAP him to death.
I’m not sure, but I could swear Sim can counter an opening jab rush with a spammed cr. forward, as I’ve seen Gian open with a cr. forward many times in anticipation of an early rush. Random, aggressive slide shenanigans are also a possibility (although very unlikely). To be sure, the opening is a dangerous time for Sim as Boxer’s real close and not controlled by fireballs. Personally I’d just wait a split second and see what Sim does.
The TAP is definitely your friend in this matchup; I’d prefer a TAP in almost any situation rather than headbutting random limbs which is basically guesswork (although the risk-reward tradeoff is pretty good for headbutt; if it lands you get a knockdown which is great). The key is unleashing a high TAP at precisely the right moment when Sim hesitates to throw a fb and limbs are just out of range. Well-timed TAPs will also trade very favorably with fb’s. Of course, low jab rush does the job as well, but patience is required to catch them off guard for a split second. Finally, headbutt, kick rushes and standing jab will deal with any aerial crap (drills, j. attacks etc) that Sim tries to do.
The key to the matchup however is extreme patience. The best Sim’s have completely mastered keepaway zoning and perfected their anti-air response for every possible jump-in. I think even Boxer’s floating fierce can be negated with a cr. strong when Boxer lands. So it’s really 50/50 for when you can land a knockdown to commence the pressure. Note also that having super really shuts Sim’s game down to your advantage. Kick rush -> super is invaluable for unaware Sim’s who try fb’ing at max range.