MvsC2:Underrated and overrated characters

Classic Fighting Games Marvel VS Capcom 2
101

OK, let’s do this again…

Cable cut’s through demons with AHVB, viper beams, and he can keep BH outta the air easily.

Doom can rape BH easily with j.fierce, sj.fierce, and rushing him down.

Spiral can just lock his ass down, as he’s a friggin huge monster.

Strider can out-zone him, and chip him to death…

Magz just needs a good assist and he’ll rape BH. Even without one, he can still rape him if he’s close enough…

Storm will hail storm BH outta the skies if he tries throwing demons, or just wavedash under there, then cross him up.

IM can cut through demons with uni-beam, and if he has Sent assist behind him, he can go for an easy setup to infinite.

Rephrasing Doom vs Sent match…

Doom doesn’t own Sent, but it’s not so bad to the point where you have a better chance if hell froze over. He’s still got some options, but they are extremely limited, do to the fact that Sent has a frying pan… and his little buddy Capcomm.

Doom needs to keep Sent grounded as long as he can, and that’s a problem. Sent can keep anyone out of the air with just a frying pan, and he can stomp you before you even jump. Pushblock is important in this match, as it helps creates openings vs Sent. Your j.fierce may not be fast as his, but with any decent AAA, you’ll be able to keep Sent out for a few secs, once he’s on the ground, you go and rush him down. Dealing with Sent while he’s on the ground is a little better then dealing him in the air, as Sent isn’t as manuverable. If Sent is in the corner, you can do a reset with Doom if you want…

cr.lk, cr.fierce, wait, sj., sj.rh air throw, super pink shit him…

Advantage factor

I think Sent has a 6/4 advantage out of 10 against Doom, while doom only has a 4/6 factor. Reason is that, if Sent knocks Doom into the corner, it’s going to be extremely hard getting out of there… also because Sent just frying pans him, stomps him, and so on…

102

What I said at the second page is so fuckin true. When most people talk about BH, they dog him and often dont know wtf they are talkin about. Does BH lose to them? Yes. Is he without options? Hell no.

About Cyke:
I firmly believe hes better than Doom. The only matches he does better than Doom is BH and Spiral. His runaway game is pretty good and hes a better anti runaway than Doom. Also, he has great jumping normals and jump in, which is something Doom lacks in. Like Doom, he doesnt have one set tactic, just a mix of everything. Rushdown, runaway, space controlling with s./c.hp, etc. The biggest thing that Cyke has over Doom is mobility.

103

Okay, I know this thread is pretty old, but I just saw the craziest Wolverine user EVER. He had Steal Wolverine, Sent, Bonerine. It was so kickass. I now think the Wolverine’s are under rated. I still think they are Cheesey Mofo’s, but in this game, there are people so much better, so my hateness for them died down. But this dude seriously kicked ass with this team. It was just too good.

104

Actually, Cable can’t. Cable has problems with people that can occupy the 45-degree below angle on him as well as stay right above him. If BH can get free of Cable, he can throw demons, airdash, and be safe. Plus it’s pretty easy, since Cable has basically only two means of travel to the air - jump, or super jump.

In my opinion - BH stalemates Cable. This can be a good thing depending on how the match goes, but if you’re not winning by much, Cable can shave your lead away quickly. Better be good at blocking.

Not debated.

No. The only time BH’s size is a factor is when he’s caught in the wall of swords trap, which is really an issue for everyone. The reason Spiral beats BH is because of jump fierce. Once you get BH in that zone, BH has negative options.

Undebated.

If your mentality is “Rush that shit down”, Magneto will die. BH vs. Mags is one of the few matches in which the Magneto player is forced to actually think. Thankfully, it doesn’t take much. You just have to play smart.

This is a simplistic strategy, and it doesn’t always work if that’s what you’re waiting for. BH can keep Storm from mindless running, and he can bait out hail storms. Nobody said he had to call a helper. Hey, I don’t think BH beats Storm either, but if that’s gonna be your mindset, then my gameplan alone is better because it’s flexible.

Yeah, whatever. All your strategies seem to revolve around the opponent demon spamming. BH still has regulars. You haven’t played a good Blackheart player. But don’t worry, there aren’t many people who actually try to use him.

105

Joe Zaza? He’s a scrub! Hahaha :smiley:

106

Regardless of how no Jap players made it past 1st round, what im saying is that Jap Cyke is better then US Cyke.
Im not sayin the Japanese are better then the US, im saying their Cyclops is better then ours.
If you dont recognize that, then youre a complete fool.
I didnt say that Cyke inf was the only thing that made him good, I said he was good without his inf, but with his inf he is that much better.

Storm imo owns Cyke.
Why, because if she can get above him, which is pretty easy, she owns him. I think she owns in ground and air priority.
Cyke has nothing that cuts through her fierce.
She can dominate in the air, and on the ground evetually Cyke will block wrong and she will rush his ass down.
How is Cyke a free win over Storm?
She can build meter almost as fast, and while she is building meter, Cyke really cant, because if she is SJ.FP he cant SJ.RH.

As to how Cyke can run from Magz, SJ.RH.
I dont think Magz has anymove that cuts through that save CR.HP but that only works if Cyke is foolish enough to do another RH so close to the ground and not block it.
With Cyke you can call assists jump backwards and hit RH to run away from Magz.

Cyke has a decent shot vs Cable because it is hard for Cable to deal a whole lot of damage to Cyke.
Cyke can ghetto rush down, or just try and cheese out Cable since his cheese cant be AHVBd.
Cable must have an assist to win vs Cyke imo.
Im not saying Cyke wins this bout, or should, I just think that Cyke can do pretty well vs Cable.

I dont find Cyke vs Sent to be that risky because the only thing to really fear is getting stuck in the corner and being stomped on, and random Rocket Punch>HSF.
Who isnt scared on being stuck in the corner and stomped on?
And who isnt scared of getting hit by the random Rocketpunch>HSF?
He has the same fears as every other character, but he has an air super that absolutely devastates Sent.
I would rather have Cyke vs Sent then almost any other char.

107

I dont think Japan has any characters better than the USA. Sure it looks like they have a better IM but that is all they play their. Sorta equilvalent to our Sentinel. But all of the Japanese players got peaced out early in all of the American tournies using Iron Man. The Japanese IM are too rushdown/infinite happy and it seems unbelievable they can just get in an infinite that easy.

The reason why Cyke isnt used on point that much is because he doesnt deal damage as much and as quick as the big 4 but more importantly, he’s just as good as an AAA. True, the Japanese knows how to do the infinite, but is that really neccesary to win? American Cykes are good to go, but why put him on point when you can just stick him with 2 of the big 4 and use him as an assist? :rolleyes:

Its the other way around, Mag > Cyke, but Cyke beats Storm in a way. Jumping RK is risky vs Magneto. He can air dash to him and jab him out of it. Depending on the distance, it might even possible to throw him out of it before he even hits the RK button. Mags air dash is a bit too fast for Cyke to keep on relying sj. HKs to win the match. Another thing is every time u super jump and run, you are vulnerable of being crossed up.

Cykes j. fp or j.hk can cut thru storms jumping fierce. I like using the j. fp better as it knocks her down like a brick and it beats her j.fp better. If she runs, she can get beamed down by his SOB. Also, his double jump reaches her and he can knock her back down. Her rushdown might pose a problem, but its less threat than Magnetos as he isnt as fast. jumping and RKing and/or gene splicing with assist works pretty well against it. Cykes d+hp beats storms RK launcher, but his SFR doesnt so if you want to jump in on her or Psylocke, use the SFR. The hardest matchup Cyke has against Storm is when she has Psylockes AAA.

108

Command launcher beats Storm’s j.fierce every time, and sets up the infinite, which BTW, not even the Japanese can pull off consistently for more than three cycles. Also, Cyke’s j.dn+fierce is insanely prioritized and has been seen to beat Storm’s s.rh clean (I wouldn’t try it though)

He’s not, but he has a lot of tools that helps. Storm can’t run (SOB stops that) and Storm can’t typhoon xx hailstorm Cyke’s helper (s.fierce stops that)

The problem with this fight is that Cyke doesn’t get to do his good moves on Cable. He can’t chip, and he can’t do his standard SOB combo (Cable can zap Cyke even if the combo connects on him).

Problem with Cyke vs. Sent is all-in-all damage. Sure, his j.rh trades with a lot of Sentinel’s attacks, but what does it matter if the trade is in Sentinel’s favor every time?

109

About Japanese vs US Cyke: Have you even seen a good Japanese Cyke player? If so, is there videos? And have you ever seen a good US cyke player? One who knows how to work the winnable matchups and doesn’t try to work the unwinnable ones? If you can say a resounding Yes to both of those, than maybe you can be the judge of who has better Cykes.

About Cyke vs Storm: yeah, storm can get above him. But, if Cyke is on the ground, and storm tries to rush him down, Cyke can S.Roundhouse. or, he can OC.Roundhouse and as long as you score at least one rotation of his infinite, you can go for a throw instead of continuing it and score easily more than 50%. And on top of that, Cyke can build meter pretty easily by doing SJ.Roundhouse and then unload with MOB for chip.

Sorry, i was disrupted in my last posting anyway…

And on top of that, he can always J.Roundhouse when Storm triangle jumps if you won’t want to be on the ground. Storm tries random hails from full screen. Cyke can S.Fierce. Storm tries to go to the top of the screen and run. Cyke SJs, double jumps, and MOBs at the top of the screen. Cyke’s MOB alone is a major damage factor.

110

Ive seen some vids of Japanese Cyke, it looked almost like XSF with Cyke just hitting his inf super quick.
Ive seen lots of US vids, and imo the US Cyke isnt as good, because without the inf Cyke doesnt deal a whole lot of damage off connected hits.
With the pace of MVC2 now, if you land a hit you best be dealing a grip of damage. Chip alone doesnt win you matches anymore.
I just think US Cykes overall damage output isnt up to par yet.

111

Ive never seen Cykes launcher beat out Storms fierce, most times I see Cyke go for that launcher, Storm air dashes over Cyke and his foot is pointing the wrong way.
Ive also never seen his dn+FP beat s.RH.
I have seen it get beaten though on several occasions.

Cyke vs Sent, his dn+Fierce I have seen cut through Sents launcher, combos into RH, dash, LK, MP (launcher), air combo/inf.
Sent calls drones or does HSF and doesnt catch Cyke blocking it, its a free super for Cyke.

112

overrated: Cable- I just can’t respect a man who’s only good for running away.

113

the whole concept of cyke being on the ground while storm is tri-jumping is pretty stupid. cyke is an air person against storm. the only time cyke should be on the ground with storm is at near full screen distance, and he should be shooting them dayum fp’s to stop that random hailstorm garbage.

114

Jin
Silver Samurai
Omega Red
Anakaris
Ken/Akuma/Sakura
Captain America
Charlie/Guile
Chun Li
Zangief
Dhalsim
Shuma Gorath
Blackheart (Top tier, but people still give him shit for some reason)
Rogue
Amingo
Ruby heart
Colossus
Strider (Unless he’s with Doom, people think he’s shit)
Mega Man
Spider-Man
Both Wolverines
Jill

115

How sure are you of this? Cuz I’ve been playing Cyke for 2 years, and I don’t remember getting AHVBed after connecting SOB (jab optic blast XX super, cyclone kick XX super).

I honestly can’t recall someone doing AHVB right after the SOB hits, in tourney and casual play. Does Cable have to be fast or what? :slight_smile:

Thanks. :cool:

116

It’s possible. There’s only one frame leeway for you to do it though. So it has to be one of those SUPER EXTRA INSTANT AHVBs that are so low that Cable’s legs are under the ground and shit!

117

You know what’s fun about Cyke? Against some characters, he never needs to land a hit. MOB does a lot of chip and is usually safe unless you’re against Cable (some other characters probably apply, but I’m not sure at the moment). And if you actually land a hit, you can just land a SOB combo for around 50%.

As for the whole issue about US vs Jap Cyke, if they truly have better Cykes, then their Cykes will be able to win the problem matches at US doesn’t seem to be able to handle. So, that means that Jap Cyke can beat Sentinel, and Jap Cyke can beat Cable, and Jap Cyke can beat Magneto, etc.

Now, do you honestly think the japanese can play Magneto, Sentinel, and Cable as well as US can? Look at EVO for you answer there. And it’s not like they didn’t have their top player here either…

BTW, you should not be landing an infinite on Cable, Sentinel, or Magneto. At high levels of play, that just won’t happen. If these mysterious videos you speak of are featuring this, then there’s something fundamentally wrong with the infinite-ies.

118

I believe that you should be able to land an inf on a grounded Sent, and have a shot at landing it vs. Cable.
Cable gets stupid with the grenades sometimes and has too much confidence in his jumping RH. You have a shot at dashing under a grenade and hitting the inf on Cable, or using his launcher as an anti air against Cable’s RH.
A grounded Sent can be hit by the inf because of d+FP cuts through Sent’s launcher which many use as anti air.

I wasnt implying that Jap Cyke can beat Magneto, or Cable consistently or that he should, im saying that when they are forced to use Cyke on point they are much better at using him then the US is.
Cyke is still a force to be reckoned with on point, he isnt like Capcom who is pretty much random corridor>captain sword, which is a joke compared to the offense that Cyke has.

119

You cant be in the air all the time, and when Storm gets above you and is floating downwards mashing on FP, what are you going to do, jump up into her?
Lets say, instead of taking the FP hits, and being forced back on the ground, or instead of getting air thrown, you instead block the FP on the ground, and Storm goes into a block string, calls an assist, she dashes around you into a cross up…

Is that really a stupid concept?

Storm has pushed you into the corner, or you have been SJ.RH away from Storm and find yourself in the corner, Storm calls an assist to keep you grounded like Sent ground type, while she air dashes above you to keep you from SJ.RHing away.

Is that a stupid concept?

Storm can ground Cyke, and she can cross him up.

120

You cant land an infinite on Sentinel, it just isnt possible. He, BH, Juggs and Hulk are too big and heavy to be infinited.

Another thing about Sentinel, his big boot is not his anti air. Fly back and frying pan is. Anything can beat his big boot as it is pretty damn slow.

The Japanese Cyke isnt better than the USA Cyke. The only big thing they have over ours is the infinite, which isnt a major part of Cykes gameplay.