MvCI Meta and Tier Discussion

Think we really need to see it in action. On paper it seems to be the worst stone next to mind to me, but I plan on giving it a chance.

The Freeze on Reality storm is cheap as hell. It comes instantly, so you can’t throw nothing on the ground.

That’s not bad or useless at all.

Problem is, people stay in the air and usually top tiers have the ability to stay up there

The lightning is usually the hardest thing to avoid especially when it’s combined with characters that can teleport and convert off of it. Aka dante

I think only a few characters can make the reality storm really cheap as stalling in the air removes you from all of its danger except for the lightning which requires a partner to tag in to double it up and make it a bit more threatening. If they’re just spamming one bolt with one character and you have a character with decent air movement it’s not too bad. I use time stone also so it’s easy to just warp out of the way of the lightning. The fire dragon is probably the scarier one as it locks up the air space, but it takes time to start up so you have time to prepare to be in a certain spot and block it out or maneuver over it.

The reality surge moving a bit faster after the patch may be a bit of a berf as good use of it means it will force you to respect it quicker, but it’s still going to be much easier to deal with than now. Right now I just use Dante cuz he doesn’t give a shit about it, but after the patch my other characters will do well vs it also (plus time stone porting to burn it out).

Which the work you put in to make reality storm cheap you can just put into space or soul storm and get stuff that’s way cheaper. Space and Soul storms (and stones) are the best overall as they allow you to break a fundamental rule of the game. Space boxes the opponent into a confined spot and removes their tag option (which is almost as bad as removing a super bar from you in SF). Soul gives you another chance to bring back your tag options which is busted when it’s successful in a game where having 2 characters is basically one of your great resources. Normally once you lose a character that’s it your team is automatically weaker, but soul can circumvent that.

The other stones have good shit, but don’t really have storms that completely bend the rules of the game (or have to create things that still aren’t as effective as space and soul are by default). Only one that comes close is mind with giving you a shit ton of meter, but that still requires the tag system to be at its most oppressive.

I was initially sour on Hawkeye but playing him more and feeling more comfortable with him and I’m starting to really destroy people. He’s pretty oppressive and I love it. I don’t really see the Mind stone being THAT great with him like people were theorizing - Gimlet is nice and all but just having a ton of meter for a few seconds doesn’t really do anything when the opponent just blocks in the corner. Hawkeye doesn’t have any great mixups so excess meter doesn’t really do a whole lot with him I feel like. I run him with Power Stone and have more success. Still looking for the optimal combo with Gamora after he lands a gimlet and she tags in for cr.HK > Power Stone wall bounce. Seems like you can’t really get a long gun loop after that.

Your main pattern during Mind Storm is st.HP, any arrow, with cancels into Gimlet if they commit to something or Kiss Of Fire if they’re blocking. Also, with the ass speed of ground Mind Surge, you might be able to catch people by canceling the first hit of st.HK into Mind Surge.

Hawkeye is also interesting because his ice arrow causes a restand if they haven’t been frozen in the combo yet. Do a regular combo into ice arrow, tag in someone fast enough to reach the opponent, and perform a standing reset that can’t be teched.

I think Soul is a little overrated, especially in the match up against Space. Soul doesn’t add that much until someone dies, and then it’s almost countered by Space. Soul makes death temporary, Space makes the other character temporarily ā€œdead.ā€

Soul seems best at the extremes, crazy comebacks or making it impossible up comeback, but Space always puts in work.

That said, I think the other Stones are improved immensely by the Reality Stone nerf as it opens up the neutral where they will have an opportunity to shine.

Reality Storm is no Space Storm, but imo it’s plenty good. I think people are too harsh on it because it throws out a lot of attacks that get blocked, but barring Space it’s the Storm that’s most likely to grant you a hit (if only due to the sheer amount of chances).

Hit confirm into a Time/Power Storm seems like a waste of resources (though probably good for Mind)

According to ToolAssisted the level 3 is only ten frames which is crazy fast.

Who would you pair him with though?

I fight with a Hulk player very frequently.

He used to pair him with Hawkeye and Strider but has settled with Jedah.

Jedah and Hulk are a matrimony. They compliment each other perfectly.

Jedah/Hulk Space is dangerous.

My best team is Spider/Hulk but I’m going to change to Thor eventually. Now that dude is being slept on! Spider Hulk works similar to Jedah/Hulk where you just let Hulk go in and create a high-low mixup for Spiderman or Jedah.

With SpiderHulk I was just confirming hits into corner carry with Spiderman and resetting into Hulk on point near the end of combos and then running the same gamma charge or gamma wave, tag, into high-low 50/50 with Spiderman again. The stones I were using with them were Soul for a decent projectile using the surge that breaks through reality surge, and time for whacky mixups.

Hulk moves pretty quickly if you’re good at wave dashing and I’d just go in and out, and all I’d want is for them to block his f.HP. If I can get them to block that, it’s 50/50 time. When combined with timestone, Spiderman gets high-low and left right 50/50. If you use the gamma wave instead of the charge he can tag in and timestone to cross up, but if you delay your air dash, you can end up on the initial side again. Shit is crazy.

Everything I said probably works even better with Jedah, but I just don’t like how he moves. I honestly think Spiderman + Power is the way to go anyway.

how would you rate strider hulk? I’ve been eyeing that pair myself.

Is annoying with Charges to Grams zoning and the ocassional Gamma Crush with Ouroboros teleporting.

Thing is, touch Strider and he is pretty much dead and Hulk alone is very beatable if you understand how to approach him.

Jedah is much harder because the scythes lock you down for command grabs and approaches from Hulk and you don’t want Hulk next to you plus a Jedah super sets up Hulk for big damage opportunities.

Plus, the Jedah flying around, Hulk crossup shenanigans are annoying too.

I’ve honestly never touched Jedah, I think I respect him enough that I have no interest in trying him to see what he’s like. I think I’m going through that ā€œplay what everyone else isn’t playingā€ phase as this jump from 3 to Infinite I’m finding really difficult. Ironically the jump from 2 to 3 was fine even though this plays more like 2 than 3 did. Idk…

Jedah has some of the problems he had back in VSav. His defense is horrible, and he’s gimped against characters that can AA him well. You can run him second to cover that, but you’re gambling on your point to set him up.

Jedah pretty much has to be weak defensively because his offense is among the best in the game and his spirals are essentially self assists that he can constantly throw out on screen and can’t be pushed out once blocked. The spirals also don’t interact with most projectiles so it makes them extremely strong for preemptive defense. Once they’re out on screen they can’t be removed from the screen unless Jedah gets hit. Which is why of course when combined with the tag system they become really oppressive. With how quickly you can throw them out there’s a lot of patterns and lockdowns that people still aren’t doing with them that I’m sure will come about later. Especially with the ability to have a high and low spiral out on the screen at the same time.

Gonna be picking up Jedah/Venom when they launch and mess with synergy and stuff. Seem like 2 characters that both want to get in and get shit done and can fill the screen with enough stuff to help control that. Probably looking at using Power or Space with them since those will be the strongest defensive stones after the patch. Power surge basically being the best preemptive defense tool in the game and works well with characters like Jedah and Venom that can fly around for ambiguous crosses. Space storm gives everyone the best reversal in the game still and I’m sure both characters will like having space surge to pull people into their shit.

Yea I think Jedah/space is top tier. If he didn’t have bad defense he would be OP. I also might learn him to pair with widow at some point

Defensive options don’t mean as much in the world of mvc compared to other fighters. Best defense is don’t be put in that situation in the first place. Jedah has enough mobility to do that. Fidget spinners are also great for space control.

On a related note, Zero with space stone is retarded good. Space is probably my least favorite stone in the game, but the dirt that Zero gets with box of shame is more or less as good as Jedah. Sometimes, I don’t even use the free level 3 and go for sougenmu resets against boxed opponents.

Having defensive options in mvci is amazing, mainly because of the tag system

Yeah having a character with invincible specials or super is scary because with the tag system you can turn them into meterless combo conversions. Which pretty much forces people to lay down traps that will outlast your invincibility to consistently lock you down.

Jedah with the right spiral traps is dirty as hell. Especially on post kill.

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