I still think Arthur is really good and has a lot of room for potential. Maybe that’s because I play ryu though.
I’m sure certain matchups make you use gold armor but at least it’s not a death sentence anymore when your armor does break
I think Arthur’s molotov cocktails(or whatever those things are) kinda save him. He can throw them from annoying angles and they lead to combos or can lock you down for tag opportunities.
Arthur sucks, cant even outprojectile a grappler…
Having said that, just woke up to this one reset TOD in the Arthur thread. But he still sucks (outside gold armor)
It looks like as far as frame data goes, the fastest normals seem to be no less than 5 frame start up and I’ve only seen special moves like Morrigan’s LP shadow blade with 4 frame start up. Probably not any normal that’s faster than 5 frames now and likely not any special move faster than 4 frames.
Rocket’s grounded light punches are 4f according to TOOLASSISTED’s data.
Firebrand’s lp also consistently beats Jedah’s during start of round scrambles so I’d bet it is also 4f.
I wonder what Spidey’s st.lp is. That thing seems blistering fast.
Both spidey’s stand and crouch lps are 4 frames
I’d like to see Ultrons hit boxes, swear dude has some Doom shot going on.
So for the characters we basically have:
Rushdown/mixups
Support/zoner
Grappler
All around
Any others?
As I see it:
Rushdown/mixups
[list]
[] Chun
[] Morrigan
[] Spider-Man
[] Jedah
[] Gamora (her rushdown seems more pressure based than mixup based)
[] Zero
[/list]
Zoner/support
[list]
[] Arthur
[] Hawkeye
[] Coon
[] Dorm
[] Dr. Strange
[] Ghost rider
[*] X
[/list]
Grappler:
[list]
[] Haggar
[] Hulk
[] Thor
[] Thanos
[*] Nemesis
[/list]
All around:
[list]
[] Ironman
[] Ultron
[] Captain marvel
[] Nova
[/list]
Characters I haven’t figured out yet/don’t know how to classify
[list]
[] Strider (want to put him mainly at rushdown/support hybrid, but his fast high/low mixups are damn near non exsistent as far as I can tell)
[] Dante (seems more all around, but has one of the best instant overheads in the game which would make him rushdown/mixup)
[] Chris
[] Spencer
[] Firebrand (also don’t know but feels like he and strider would fit in the same category but with slightly different functions)
[] Ryu (is he good at anything besides having an invincible special)?
[] Captain America
[] Frank west
[/list]
Before finishing, yeah any character can be rushdown and any character can superjump and play lame etc etc. I’m just trying to classify characters according to what they are immediately best at.
Any thoughts? Spencer might be considered rushdown because of zip line stuff, but he feels like his rushdown isn’t as heavy as the others. Like calling captain marvel a zoner because she has beams…
One reason to make a list like this is to look at every archetype and figure out who you like best in said archetype to round out your team. Like ultron is the best all arounder so far, so you can basically pair him up with anyone outside maybe a heavy zoner and have good/decent results in theory.
Spencer’s f+HP, tag, down LK is a seriously dirty mix up
I think your comparison of Strider and Firebrand is pretty accurate, as well as classifying them as support/rushdown hybrid characters.
Dante is definitely an “all-around” character. Sure he has an amazing IOH, but he also provides probably the best support options in the game.
NEW TECH!*
Ok so, we all know that we can special plus assist at the same time right?
No? Well not only does this technique give you WAY more advantage on block, but something I was just coming across while playing that is fucking INCREDIBLE… is it HIDES YOUR SPECIAL
So as an example, let’s say I’m doing ultron st.hp xx L beam xx tag. If I do that sequentially the beam will already be on screen as I’m tagging to morrigan and the opponent will be locked down. If however I do that at the same time, morrigan comes in before the beam even hits, this basically means morrigan viably gets 2 mixups off the beam… but it gets even worse:
With ultron as an example, assuming the opponent doesn’t pushblock (though there will be setups against pushblock as well)… with time stone I get a mixup:
St.hp xx tag plus L beam… regular stuff, mad pressure.
St.hp xx tag plus L drone>time stone crossup
The opponent won’t know what special is coming, whether it’s a fast special, or a slow special.
Same thing can be applied to the neutral. I can L beam plus tag for a quick move that hits neutral and will give me some advantage on block or hit… or I can tag plus slow special that will give me mucho frame advantage like an L drone which hits much slower.
So mixups for days off of blocked moves with the tag system because the opponent has no idea what special is being canceled into.
Like nova can tag cancel into his super slow overhead special before the opponent even sees it coming, or he can just do something else. This pretty much applies to any character with ranged specials that have both fast and slow startup.
This is hype mixup shit yo.
-edit, it becomes even crazier mixup shit when you mixup what moves you are canceling from. As an example if I do cr.lp xx L beam XX tag >time stone the L beam will crossup because the opponent won’t be in hit/blockstun
*may not actually be new, it’s pretty obvious.
Hmmm may have to give that a shot with MM might be able to set up some hard to blockables.
ALSO NOTE:
Using this, although you won’t be able to get fully invincible supers, if you have a character backing you up you can super plus tag and depending on the super, you will tag in before the super activates and you can use your body as a meat shield for any incoming projectiles/opponents that would hit your super before it activates. Just tested it and if you hold crouch block as an example your tag will still have momentum and keep moving forward and allow you to stop stuff. So this has even further reaching implications than just special tagging. How safe we can make these depends on our teams and the supers we are using but this is more than likely meta changing stuff here because it allows us to use moves for different purposes than what they are already being used for.
Like armor moves especially, and even powerstone surge and soul stone surge take on drastically different implications with this. Like with ultron and time stone you can ultron beam super, then tag and time stone and I’m not sure if it crosses up or not… but with morrigan if you super plus tag and then time stone… it definitely crosses up… not only that but it gives full combo on hit and the crossup is TOTALLY invisible because of the screen freeze.
Sorry, last thing I promise.
Omg this is the cheap shit. Using special plus tag feels like using assists… you get basically the same amount of frame advantage doing this as you would using assists in skullgirls or older marvel games because you can basically act before the special even comes out.
Combine this with super slow specials and the amount of frame advantage you get is even more than you would in marvel.
It’s like everything is hidden missiles.
Well nothing new. It seems like this is how you create block string mixup in this game.
I have a setup with Nova / Spidey when I beam super with Nova and tag with spidey before the move even start. If opponent roll forward than he is sandwiched between Spidey and Nova beaming his ass. I don’t think you can escape that with invicible super. Same if they roll back or get up neutral. Opponent is in the corner far away from Nova. I have to record the sequence en check how to escape that cause Spidey has two 50/50 if they block with usually 5000+ health lost before that.
this is important
I think I can explain this. There’s a mechanic that makes beams and projectiles do more damage the closer you are to the opponent, so by switching perhaps the priority of the Lv3 is shifted to X instead of Zero and thus the higher damage result.
I think you’re missing the point of this video.
It shows that if you switch to X before Zero’s Lvl 3 hit, then your opponent can potentially recover all the lost life (red bar is full). While you can only recover a fraction of it if you don’t switch. Damage is the same on both example.
The damage numbers are the same.
It’s that the character that is tagged out mid move (You could say the Assist) only do damage that is recoverable as opposed to not tagging in which case only around 25% of the damage is recoverable. This means that if your plan is to end a combo with a super and tag in your other character just to be on point you should wait until the super is almost done to minimise on recoverable health.