Except you can’t actually do that. Your projectiles can be fired back at you or your tagged partner and get them combod, or they can be ported around, or they can be countered with moves that completely ignore projectiles.
Like thor hammer or thanos fireball.
They are almost completely useless on the ground, the strongest version that I’ve yet played with is gold Arthur arrows and reality projectile by far, which gives grapplers access to one of the strongest projectiles in the game which helps them out immensely, but doesn’t help out zoners quite as much.
Yeah I know that was the thinking behind it. It basically seems like the first idea they had was active switch, then they just had to fix all the various broken things that naturally occured as a result of it. Its such a polarizing mechanic. Personally i feel like its a lazy mechanic. Like it gives people a faux sense of creativity. People think they’re doing all this cool stuff when in reality they’re just spamming some obnoxious hitbox special, pressing tag then going ham.
Assists were spammy and obnoxious in marvel 3 too but I still think covering them properly took some skill. Doing full screen Dante jetstreams and pressing the tag button isn’t ‘creative’, its just fucking shit.
That’s the early meta. End game you’re not going to be able to realistically do jet stream tag vs anyone good. I like the tag system because it’s another thing in a game that’s known for breaking rules that let’s you break more rules. It’ll have its scrubby parts (that’s Marvel), but the optimized shit i think will be a lot of fun.
Nope, all they had to do was make it so that pushblock took no chip. That alone would invalidate any hardcore chip strat while allowing for projectiles to still do what they are good at. No need to take away meter on block and wiff, no need to make beams do less damage at full screen. No need for this stupid projectile reflecting mechanic to be in the game.
And tbh there’s like a million other things they could have done to solve this problem other than making pushblock not take chip damage.
They could have put in an antizoning stone that takes no chip, they could have put in a zoning stone that makes projectiles not able to be reflected… etc etc
Time will tell with the meta of course. I think in this new era of capcom games though, honestly the meta gets figured out quicker than ever. I mean has SF5 really developed much since EVO 2016? Ignoring the balance changes, the game still plays and feels the same, people are just refining what they know works and then learning the new DLC characters. Comparitively, SF4 and MVC3 had radical discoveries even past the half way mark in those games lifespans. Obviously thats not entirely Capcoms fault because we live in a much more analytical age, even compared to 5 years ago, so we’re able to get past the discovery stage much faster. But I just feel like I can see where this game is headed already, whereas people didn’t really know what they were doing in MVC3 until like six months in (thats how Viscant managed to win EVO, he was one of the first to truly figure out the game). But In MVCI If you play vs say a good Dante/Dorm team, it just feels end game already. One random confirm with dante, then choose one of 1000 combo routes into crazy dance, tag dorm, three blues then setplay all day. Of course I do think some of the obvious early access that top players had has played a part in all this aswell.
The game is still fun though for sure. It definitely has that crack factor that all the VS games do. But I’m just not gonna pretend that the gameplay/balance is all fine and dandy. Which is the narrative that alot of the community figureheads are pushing as its their only defense they have against the hordes of people calling out the game for its terrible art direction, marketing and questionable roster.
Shoot, strange has dope projectiles, rockets little gun gives people fits, Gammoras guns are stifling as hell, Thanos fireball shield thing? Jedahs spinners? Heck even Firebrands tornado/fireballs.
Awesome. Projectiles have a pretty dope utility in this game.
Yeah I don’t think the projectiles are bad persay. Like you said theres some amazing ones. But due to the system and risk/reward, the optimal way to use them is for tagging and confirming into big damage on hit or 50/50 mixups on block. There arent as much long term space control games or wars of attrition with them anymore.
I think the game leaning towards offense is just fine. It’s difficult to be a dedicated zoner and I don’t think that’s changed. MorriDoom left a lot of salt in people’s mouth so it’s understandable.
I do think with more time we will see some more zoning orientated teams. We also don’t know what the DLC characters will bring. Sigma seems like he will be a pretty good space control character so I’m pretty excited for that. With more time comes a better grasp of neutral and the more we learn the better our zoning patterns become.
Zoning in this game is definitely going to be difficult. It’s going to be really hard for characters like Chris and Hawkeye (maybe harder for hawkeye). But there’s always good and bad characters in a game.
It’s why I’m thinking of putting gamora on the team instead of Arthur, or using Arthur gold armor with mindstone.
Arthur and Hawkeye seem to be red headed step children right now. I can’t honestly think of more than one reason why gamoras guns aren’t reflectable but Arthur’s arrows and daggers are.
If one wants projectile gameplay, right now it’s looking like gamora is the way to go.
Or maybe even thanos.
Like, idk why the decided that everything Arthur has save for no range bottle can be reflected. He already has crazy startup on most of his specials balancing him plus a really wack dash and no airdash/teleport so he can’t just bypass neutral at all, so it makes sense to make his projectile game stifling… but no.
Have to go gold, then have to use projectiles that make no meter, so you are meter starved at the end of gold against anyone smart enough to just lame gold out with superjumps, and now have to spend a meter again just to get back to regular form and be a shit character, or you have to spend another meter to go gold again and at that point you’ve spent 3 meters to be gold for maybe a 3rd of the game.
Or you can just pick gamora and your projectiles get you in for free and have good tag options on them :rolleyes:
You can always tag out if you’re gold. Then switch back in later on. I wad going to suggest gamora. She’s not a zoner but she can shoot through a lot of projectiles so it gives you a way to control neutral. I coukd be wrong but I think Gamora qcf HK beats armored stuff.
Yeah, I know I have different character options but I’m trying to actually find a feasible way to play Arthur because his playstyle is my favorite fighting game playstyle.
I didn’t have the problems with ironman that I did with Arthur, as an example. Ironmans unibeam goes through thanos projectile in startup and beats it for free most of the time unless the projectile is fully out and coming towards me. But once Arthur gets on point it just becomes spam ports or lk fireball or Thor hammer or play lame against armor.
The primary thing Arthur has going for him in non gold is that he can cover the air pretty well against people that like to escape ground zoning by upbacking.
With gamora the problem I’m anticipating is people upbacking out of her pressure at neutral because she doesn’t have a straight shooting projectile.
What I’m looking for is a way to force people to have to actually play me rather than having to deal with their autopilot whatever bullshit defense or pressure they are using.
It’s a bit late, but I believed I promised @“DevilJin 01” this. Filthierich (remember him) getting blown up by one of our local guys playing Dante/Morrigan/Time.
It’s not Team Darkstalkers, but Morrigan does will rushing down with Time and Dante. She gets some nice instant overhead cross ups, and has some filthy stuff. You should check out her incoming setups at 4:23 at 8:06 with Harmonious Spear and Time.
Yeah that’s Gamoras weakness up back. It’s pretty annoying. Having a beam is pretty strong. Arthur is pretty weak to thanos projectiles. I think you should play around with stones a bit. I find reality to be pretty good vs teleports.
I think they shoukd increase the chip damage on these zoners. So that they can actually have a fighting chance. It’s going to be really difficult for some of these guys.
I really hate how they handled projectile durability in this game. They went out of their way to limit some characters and gave others free passes. You have to go gold as arthur pretty much but atleast he has alot more options now and armor break is not punishable anymore.
Yeah it basically feels like it’s more of the same tbh. They gave him some buffs in some areas and nerfed some other areas. Arthur was already viable on teams in mvc3 because of dark Arthur. Now he’s viable because of gold armor… either way he’s only viable if you set him up and kinda wreck your team.
Playing through the cast right now… looks like I’ll be joining team top tier. Ultron controls pretty well compared to most of the cast and offers great synergy… don’t know how durable his beams are though so that will be an issue… but I already found a pretty nice pattern with him:
Dash up st.hp xx L beam xx tag. If they pushblock the st.hp the beam still locks them down for the tagger to get off a mixup, if the st.hp hits then the beam will as well and it’s an easy confirm.
Doesn’t have much range so it won’t be that spammable, but its still a decent marvel style confirm/lockdown.
I’m not an ultron fan, but maybe I can get used to him and his utility. Tired of heroes being underpowered outside zero and Dante though… I hate playing villains.
Scrubby I know but villains have never been my cup of tea, I hate looking at them and they don’t inspire me to go into training mode, which is a problem.
Imo I think this game will have a higher learning curve and a later peak time than possibly any other Marvel vs Capcom title to date. To put it into perspective, new discoveries in MvC2 are still being found today. MvC3 was prematurely updated so we never got to see the lifetime of vanilla ice, and imo it would probably have turned out more balanced than Ultimate.
This game, no offence to anyone, but including my self, I think everyone is approaching this game with scrub mentality, and it’s gonna take a good few years before things are properly figured out. The current mentality is that everything is safe because you can switch at any time, but nobody yet has figured out proper punishes, or ways to make people afraid of switching. For example, one idea, you whiff something huge, you switch to “safety”, but then the opponent puts you in the box of shame leaving your partner completely vulnerable, with you unable to do very little about it. Ideas like that will completely shut down people’s perceptions on when to switch, particularly in this example when space stone is stocked up.
It’s only week three, there’s far more to this game than simply “spam and switch”, this is just a gimmick that people have found to be useful because they can play effectively in a way that they’ve never been able to play before, and I don’t believe it will last forever.
While true, your space stone example is already being used. I’m terrible and I’m already waiting for bad switches or for the character that I want to storm on to come into play. I’m also killing a character and then storming immediately so that my opponent can’t storm on incoming… etc etc
Things like that are obvious.
It’s the unobvious things that will shift the meta… like I just saw some crazy rushdown morrigan that gave me the perfect character to use for my new team.
I had previously looked at her but was put off by her dash, but seeing this morrigan play as well as sonic foxes Jedah made me re evaluate dashes that go airborn.
There will always be things to figure out in this kind of game, but that’s not the question, the question is how many of those things will be meta changing. The new hitstun decay reset I can tell you is meta changing so if it doesn’t get patched out we will be looking at tods pretty soon as a regular.
How many more glitches will be found? Who knows but marvel as a series is always glitch based especially on a first run of a game. Mvc3 had the DHC glitch, umvc3 iirc had the tag infinites. This game has a HSD reset scaling and moves that become overheads that aren’t normally overheads.
So yeah while we haven’t figured everything out or even scratched the surface, most of the obvious shit is already known, if not in play then in theory.
Tag as a mechanic is pretty broken, but that’s good cause marvel is supposed to be broken by default, it’s just that we generally want the brokenness to apply to most of the cast and we generally want to play more than one touch into death, etc etc