MvC3: Two Girls one Corpse: The Hsien-Ko Thread!

[iinara]

Good luck man, hope you get on stream.

I haven’t had a chance to watch wnf which is the one on a different day or not streamed right?

I actually use her second as well so I hope I can learn some stuff from the vids.
I have her second because I dhc trick into her, which I like(aside from the damage) because she comes in an the opponent is either down to10% health, hard knocked down with me right on top, or they die and they’re in the corner with their second char dropping into h-ko corner pressure

Can’t wait to watch the vids!
Oh, do you know the users names? **clearly I suck at reading lol

[Deathfist]

It’s obvious that nobody is going to copy paste the information about the combo video for Hsien-Ko here, so I’ll do it.

[media=youtube]DrJ_gFoovNE&feature=player_embedded[/media]

Uploaded by Tsujigiri83 on Apr 11, 2011

a MvsC3 combo video for the sweet little zombie girl Hsien-Ko. some of her combos (Tenrai Ha and Anki Hou) require luck. she’s not a real combo beast, so some assists needed to be used. Hsien-Ko is often used for her GDLK armored Senpu Bu assist, but if she’s your last standing character it’s good to know what she’s capable of.
all x-factors used are level 1. played on arcade stick TE2.

enjoy!

here are the inputs:
intro: jump-dash-M-M-S, land, L-M-H-cr.H-f.H-dpb.M-f.H-dpb.H-cr.H-S, sj-M-H-S, land, dash, qcb.2xattack, qcf.2xattack, sj-H

0:37: jump-dash-M-M, f.M, qcb.2xattack, dpb.H

0:43: b.H, H-S-P1, sj-S,H, land, M-S, sj-M-S, land, qcb.2xattack

0:54: jump-dash-M-S, land, L-M-P1-H-qcf.2xattack, dash, qcf.L

1:02: jump-dash-H, land, L-M-H-cr.H-f.H-dpb.M-f.H-dpb.M-dpb.M-qcb.2xattack

1:11: dpf.H-M-M, land, H-cr.H-S, sj-M-M-H-S, land, P1, jump-H-dpb.L

1:18: jump-dash-M-M-S, land, L-M-H-cr.H-S, sj-M-H-S, land, P2, dash-cr.H-S, sj-H-S, land, qcb.2xttack, x-factor, dash, qcf.2xattack, dash, f.H

1:35: jump-dash-M-S, land, L-M-H-cr.H-f.H-dpb.M-cr.H-S, sj-M-H-dpb.L-L-S, land, dash, qcb.2xattack, qcf.2xattack, qcb.2xattack(DHC), dash, dash, S

1:55: jump-dash-M-M-S, land, L-M-H-cr.H-f.H-dpb.M-f.H-dpb.M-f.H-dpb.M-cr.H-S, sj-H-S, land, qcb.2xattack, x-factor, dash, qcf.2xattack, sj-H (-dpb.L)

2:15: jump-H-S, land, L-M-H-cr.H-S, sj-M-M-H-dpb.L-L-S, land, qcf.2xattack, dash, qcb.2xattack, x-factor, dash, qcb.2xattack, sj-H

2:33: jump-dash-M-M-S, land, L-M-H-cr.H-f.H-dpf.L-H, land, M-S, sj-M-H-S, land, qcb.2xattack, x-factor, switch phoenix, qc to upfront.L-qcf.2xattack, dpf.2xattack, dpf.L (-dpb.L)

2:53: hcb.H, qcb.2xattack, x-factor-P1-dpb.H-qcf.2xattack, sj, land, cr.H-S, sj-H-dpb.L-S, land, P2-dpf.M-dpb.L

3:10: jump-dash-M-M-S, land, L-M-H-cr.H-qcb.2xattack, x-factor, dash, qcb.2xattack, qcf.2xattack, sj, land, S, sj-H-S, land, qcf.2xattack, dash, dpf.M-H

L = light attack
M = medium attack
H = hard attack
S = special attack (launcher)
qcf = quarter circle forward
qcb = quarter circle backward
hcb = half circle backwards
dpf = dragonpunch motion forward
dpb = dragonpunch motion backward
sj = super jump
2xattack = two attack buttons simultaneously
P1 = partner1
P2 = partner2

[iinara]

Omg, Thanks a lot deathfist you’re amazing

I can’t even watch the vid again for some confirmation
But I’m assuming the jump dash m,m,s is not iad right because I can’t get the s to even animate

And for the dpr.m (gong),f+h, dpr.m,f+h…
Are you sure there’s no other button between the second dpr.m and f+h ?
I find it insanely hard (only did it once) to connect the two

And hopefully your notations could be added to the first post in the combo thread.

[Noble_Cactus]

Gong loops can be hard with her even just at/especially after two, for me anyway. It’s her high hitstun deterioration that messes it up. So the timing is very strict.

[iinara]

Yeah, I guess I just need to up my execution and familiarity with the gong loops

[Noble_Cactus]

So, I finally got to watch last week’s WNF, and the HK segments were pretty good. Refreshing to see people using her on point. The HK’s in the first part of the stream (on YT) did alright, but LLND had some good stuff. HK’s super-short rang launcher messed him up a few times, but he picked back up well. Kind of a shame had to go up against Combofiend and his great Shulk. But I guess it’s all a learning process.

Gameplay with her still seems so shaky. Other characters just seem safer to play, but it’s like you have to be extremely spot-on with her for a basic approach/combo, and then repeat that. Not like you have to be spot-on with everyone else, of course. But she just seems so flaky, and that’s what bothers me.

[evilweevle]

okay so what order do people use hsien ko in their teams. Ill usually start her on point against slower characters (ie not wolvie) and then switch her to 3rd slot after using armour super, and against faster teams ill have her 2nd, then DHC into armour then hard tag her into 3rd slot again.

problem is though is that once she is on her own after losing the other 2 team mates, im starting to find it extremely hard to open people up, and its pretty frustrating that basically the opp can just run away and let me chase them all over, even with lv3 xfactor she is difficult to really give any pressure with. so i guess my question is, do you guys leave her till your last character so you can get maximum use of her armoured assist, or do you let her go a bit earlier so you can make better use of you lv3 xfactor?

[Karsticles]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried pairing her with a meter-building assist to keep her permanently hyper armored? Rimoukon lasts 300 frames, the meter building assists can be called ~every 90 frames, and they build a third of a bar. The calls are always safe because Rimoukon > all attempts at offense, and then you also of course get meter from hitting your opponent as well. Alternatively, you can turtle a bit with her while calling the meter assist as well, since it’s pretty hard to get through gong waves plus her attack range. As a bonus, you are one of the few characters that can completely negate “get off me” assists.

Just some theoryfighter I was pondering on the way to work this morning.

Edit: I was just watching that combo video posted above; does Henkyou Ki hit OTG?

[Sugami]

No it doesn’t, was probably hitting them from the ground bounce.

I start Hsien-Ko second, I’m not confident enough with her to start her on point so I just need a good combo with Felicia to DHC into Dark Force then either DHC again into Happy Happy Trigger or just swap back to Felicia.

[Cauldrath]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried pairing her with a meter-building assist to keep her permanently hyper armored? Rimoukon lasts 300 frames, the meter building assists can be called ~every 90 frames, and they build a third of a bar. The calls are always safe because Rimoukon > all attempts at offense, and then you also of course get meter from hitting your opponent as well. Alternatively, you can turtle a bit with her while calling the meter assist as well, since it’s pretty hard to get through gong waves plus her attack range. As a bonus, you are one of the few characters that can completely negate “get off me” assists.

Just some theoryfighter I was pondering on the way to work this morning.

It’s close, but doesn’t quite make a full meter during its duration, at least with just Dark Harmonizer. Bloom gets you just over half a meter. Also, you get the last bit of meter from Dark Harmonizer after the Rimouken wears off, but if you do Dark Harmonizer x 2, then Bloom, you’ll get the meter (still just shy of a bar) just before it wears off. Of course, then you have to wait a little bit longer before you can call the assist again, so it isn’t completely sustainable.

[Noble_Cactus]

It sounds possible, but is probably too much work for just one character, especially H-Ko. As in, you’re sacrificing two assists for the strategy to work. And if she dies, well, Ammy and Morrigan can’t support each other beyond meter building.

Might be fun to try out though.

[Cauldrath]

It’s actually better to just use Dark Harmonizer than to alternate it with Bloom, at least in the long run. Bloom gives its meter sooner in the animation, but has a lot more recovery.

[iinara]

I actually want to try meter building like that it sounds annoying
I feel so daft for even thinking of it and I prefer to play with her armor on rather than swap out too

one of the worst things about this character is not being able to have yourself as an assist

[Karsticles]

It’s close, but doesn’t quite make a full meter during its duration, at least with just Dark Harmonizer. Bloom gets you just over half a meter. Also, you get the last bit of meter from Dark Harmonizer after the Rimouken wears off, but if you do Dark Harmonizer x 2, then Bloom, you’ll get the meter (still just shy of a bar) just before it wears off. Of course, then you have to wait a little bit longer before you can call the assist again, so it isn’t completely sustainable.

This isn’t taking into account the hyper dropping off mid combo/blockstring though; my hypothesis is that you will be able to eek out enough meter as it ends to keep the combo going. Though, using two meter-building assists would be front-loading too much even for my playstyle, haha. I think an anti-air assist or OTG is Hsien-ko’s best choice with this strategy.

I actually want to try meter building like that it sounds annoying
I feel so daft for even thinking of it and I prefer to play with her armor on rather than swap out too
one of the worst things about this character is not being able to have yourself as an assist

Yeah, but she doesn’t really need her own assist with hyper armor. Hyper armor means:

1. You never need to block; anything your opponent does is punishable at all times.
2. Your opponent can never safely call an assist; you can always punish the assist.
3. Your assist calls are always safe; your opponent has no mode to punish you.

If you face off against a keepaway team, like Arthur with Drones assist, chill back and spam gong while calling the meter assist. The long Arthur sits back there, the more meter you gain, while he gets nothing.

Anyway, I’ll mess with this more once PSN is back up, because that’s my only way to play, and nothing matters if it doesn’t survive beyond theorycrafting. But, the more I think about it, there are only two ways to get hyper armor in this game (off the top of my head): Sentinel’s launcher, and using Hsien-ko. Hyper armor is much stronger in this game than it was in MvC2, because in MvC2 you still suffered some form of hitstun, so long, damaging hypers could still “stop” you during hyper armor for a while. In MvC3, your life just disappears - you suffer no hitstun consequences at all. Perhaps Capcom designed Hsien-ko around this very rare and powerful feature, and people simply have not come to use it properly yet.

[Noble_Cactus]

Interesting theory. But even if that is what she’s intended for, it still seems like it’s investing too many resources into a gimmick (and not in the Phoenix way). After all, the armor only lasts 5 seconds.

But then again, I’m just conjecturing as well. We won’t know until we try it. Maybe it’s surprisingly effective.

[Tide]

that does sound pretty good but honestly I can’t see that being a viable strategy at all, even with gold armor Hsien Ko is very easy to lame out plus once Hsien Ko dies your stuck with Morrigan and Ammy with meter building assist. It does sound pretty interesting though, maybe with a lock down assist and dark harmonizer you could get something going.

[Noble_Cactus]

One thing I read about and want to try out is Gong > teleport dash > Gong. That way (in theory), you’re hopping in a little short-lived barrier while approaching the opponent, and you’re protected against teleporters (i.e. TK Shot-happy normal Phoenixes). Has anyone tried anything like this? I haven’t been able to play for a while.

[Cauldrath]

Alright, just so we are clear: repeatedly calling only Dark Harmonizer builds meter at a faster rate over time than alternating between calling Dark Harmonizer and Bloom. Bloom has a shorter start up, but the recovery is a lot longer, even to the point that it’s faster to just wait for Dark Harmonizer to come up again each time you use it. So, if you are trying Karsticle’s idea, pick Morrigan with Dark Harmonizer, then whatever other assist you think will work best for your team. Generally, you’re going to be calling only Morrigan outside combos, so your other character should probably be someone like Wesker for an OTG or Jill/Spencer for a wall bounce.

[evilweevle]

that does sound pretty good but honestly I can’t see that being a viable strategy at all, even with gold armor Hsien Ko is very easy to lame out plus once Hsien Ko dies your stuck with Morrigan and Ammy with meter building assist. It does sound pretty interesting though, maybe with a lock down assist and dark harmonizer you could get something going.

^^ This.

Basically all that happens to me when i activate gold armour on point is that the opp just runs away from me for the duration, and it is practically impossible to catch anybody with hsien ko. If im down to hsien ko as my last character i usually activate xfactor and gold armour, but im starting to think of dropping the gold armour bit really. I think people are more inclined to actually stand their ground when you DONT have gold armour.

One thing I read about and want to try out is Gong > teleport dash > Gong. That way (in theory), you’re hopping in a little short-lived barrier while approaching the opponent, and you’re protected against teleporters (i.e. TK Shot-happy normal Phoenixes). Has anyone tried anything like this? I haven’t been able to play for a while.

yea it does work like that but i havent actually tried it in any real matches. doing the teleport right after a gong brings you just in front of the shockwave so unless you cancel the teleport early or delay it then you could potentially take a hit from the front. I was kinda wondering if you could use this method to reflect doom missiles since im pretty sure the hitbox for gong would reach slightly over your head. but then im not even sure if doom missiles CAN be relflected.

Yeah, but she doesn’t really need her own assist with hyper armor. Hyper armor means:

1. You never need to block; anything your opponent does is punishable at all times.
2. Your opponent can never safely call an assist; you can always punish the assist.
3. Your assist calls are always safe; your opponent has no mode to punish you.

they can just run away though or block until armour runs out. hsien ko is very difficult to open people up with imo shes just too damn slow.

[EvuL_Soldier]

I’ve been wondering about this, but wouldn’t doing the dash trick into Tenraiha + Chireitou in the corner actually be a bad idea? By that I mean the blades carries the victim out of the corner, and Hsien-Ko has to start her horrible game again of catching the opponent with her slow and predictable speed. While I’m only speculating, but Hsien-Ko shouldn’t have a very good corner game with the tools she have? Standing H covers the ground, forward M covers her head, forward H covers a good portion of the air, and Anki Hou H I believe stops super jumpers. In fact, I’m inclined to think that Hsien-Ko’s hidden strength lies on the corner. She has a hyper that pushes the foe to the corner (Chireitou), a hyper that literally scares the foe away from you (Rimouken) to where? The corner, and a hyper that is perfect on the corner and have enough recovery to backdash and prevent the foe from rolling out of the corner (Tenraiha). Again, this is only speculations, but when Hsien-Ko is at her optimal range and the opponent can’t just simply run away, then she might have something hidden we haven’t seen yet.