MvC3: Two Girls one Corpse: The Hsien-Ko Thread!

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1221

True, but I believe Seth even said that the dev team aimed to avoid characters falling into the MvC2 “Assist Tier” trap. Now my argument would hold more water if I could actually find a link to what he said, but I can’t find it right now. I do understand that the dev team couldn’t have foreseen how she’d turn out (hey, maybe they thought she’d be the best thing since? I don’t know, Hsien-Ko?). Anyway, there’s no excuse for characters to have good assists and underwhelming point play, especially when other characters like Tron or Doom have great assists and are solid on point. Well, maybe other than “we don’t have the time/resources to invest in that right now.”

But that’s all just semantics. So back to the present.

I’ve never considered using bombs in that way before. Hehe, just goes to show how noobish I still am with this game.

As for countering Wolvie, could throwing out a Gong and then doing a :f::h: catch him while he’s jumping at you? Or can he get past that with his dive?

1222

that’s true Cactus, Trons assist is amazing, not as dominant as Hsien Ko’s but it is still insane. You could even say it’s better sometimes since it doesn’t require a set up and Tron is not easy to kill with that insane health pool she has. and she controls space/moves quickly with jump H spam…Give Hsien Ko some better air mobility! the way Hsien ko is made, she would be great in Street Fighter or something but in this game you need to have some kind of air mobility. And any characters who don’t have good mobility in this game can at least shoot beams or have some kind of aerial projectile, hell a lot of characters have both an air dash/flight AND air projectiles. I think it sucks that Hsien Ko cannot throw items in the air.

That is definitely a smart way to use your bombs, I just hate the idea of a bomb coming when I really need to hit someone with something. Luckily this is a new age of games, they can make tweaks to her via DLC and such in the same way they lowered sents health.

I plan on using her the best that I can until/if that happens and I’m sure I’ll be more than decent with her on point once I figure out some shit.

@Cactus I’ve never thought about that but using a H gong and forward H sounds like it would be great, F+H has a great hitbox and I’m sure it would connect with anyone trying to get over that gong. I’m going to hit training mode and do some testing… something like Gong, call projectile assist Forward H

1223

Sorry, I don’t mean for it to sound like I only do gongs. I might throw a couple gongs just to like, set up a scenario. They come in, block, get hit, whatever. Now my opponent knows that it’s going to be annoying to take a direct approach. Then I’ll use item toss to supplement that. If I think they can get really close, I’ll do a C item and hopefully they’ll have to block it. If I think they’re gonna jump or air dash in, I’ll use B so they have to block that. If it’s someone who I think will approach on the ground, then I’ll use A.

The important thing about gongs is that I don’t have to throw them. I can use Anki Hou, 6B, 6C, 5C, or whatever else to keep people away from me. The point is to make them really have to think twice about what they’re doing. Once you have them second guessing themselves, you can go for things like pendulum, air dash, teleport dash, etc.

And seriously, use your assists to protect yourself. Obviously Lei-Lei on point has some problems, but if you have something like Plasma Beam, Jam session, drones, or whatever else forcing them to block, it’s a lot harder to get free punishes on Lei-Lei.

And as for bombs, if you are like max range it’s not too bad. If nothing else, fear of getting hit by something might make them hesitate. However, there are often times when I won’t do it at max range, because I know that if I get anything besides the bomb they’ll either get hit or have to block, but I get the bomb and eat a combo. Maybe it’s something I just have to stop doing completely, but that’s really stupid in my opinion.

@Noble Cactus: That’s exactly what I’m talking about. If you’re being super predictable and just spamming something, sure, you’ll get punished. However, if you mix it up, they have to start guessing. Lei-Lei has a lot of tools that do similar things, so changing it up can be to your advantage.

1224

Did everyone ignore when I said Berserker slash?

D: That the only thing Logan need to do to kill anyone.

1225

yeah Wolverine seems like he can just kinda do whatever he wants, especially with that cross up attack, and his basic combo does so much damage, I don’t have any advice since I haven’t practiced against wolvie that much with hsien ko but I know it’s gotta be pretty horrible lol.

1226

Uh, I am pretty sure that Berserker Slash is not a magical move that punishes everything for free. I am pretty sure, in fact, that it has set distances, and can be controlled with zoning. Or you know, you could just block or avoid it.

1227

you could use the game clock to figure stuff like that (maybe) if you can time your anki hou projectile just as the clock ticks over, and see what you get throwing every half sec/quart sec afterwards. training mode clock is always set to infinite so ive not been bothered to test this yet.

1228

surely you wouldnt even need to do that. if you just do a jumping gong, at the right height, which ive found that using hsien kos instant (well, rather as soon as you can do it after leaving the ground) airdash into gong is a really good height to put them out. the opp cant go under them, they can only go over them with a super jump (obviously not including the characters with teleports fly mode etc), cant call assists while superjumping, and then have set themselves up for a very loooong descent where you can just call an anti air assist (if you have one) or just chuck anki hou H to intercept them in the air ( a bit more risky), or use the teleport dash to reposition yourself behind them on the screen, all the while they cant see what you are doing below.

what i tend to do sometimes is to send out a gong roughly the middle of her jump height. then just jump forwards behind it each time putting out a new one whilst moving forwards and calling assists when needed. obviously you need to be careful when spamming gongs from hypers etc, but that should be obvious by now.

1229

Berserker Slash got inv for the nearly whole active frame.

1230

If you’re doing moves in a manner that allows Wolverine to predict and punish what you’re doing that easily, you deserve to get hit.

Also, if you are in a match where you have the luxury of throwing items based on the clock, rather than what your opponent is doing, more power to you I guess.

1231

Trust me… I know how to control space D:.

1232

@tachi i only play offline, i cant do my 600k corner combo’s online. UNless you have japanese internet i wouldnt suggest playing lei lei online because she REQUIRES good defensive skills, because of her obvious set backs.

No match up is bad for her when your opponent as to rush you down, very few characters have a four frame startup :l: and the ones who have a dash-like “teleport” such as zero, x23,wesker, have recovery on them, albeit very small recovery but its not zero frame meaning you do an :l: and be alright or simply block.

I honestly dont see lei lei as the worst char in the game, the only thing slow about her is her walk speed. i think this has already been discussed alot, but she cant really be rushed down, j.:H: stuffs anything that is jumping towards you, 6:m: stuffs anything or at the very least trades with moves that are right above you. if you manage to block once, a simple push block into senpu bu to mount an offense.

On a lighter note, i was playing with the DFW marvel players and i was doing okay. For some reason everyone has some kind of second gear and turned things up. I started losing SUPER badly, UNTIL i swapped my third char out for lei lei. I started back winning after i put her in. The things they were doing wouldnt work against her like they normally would against other char’s. I’m telling this brief story so other people can see that you just have to really understand the char in order to be good with her.:karate:

1233

http://shoryuken.com/f365/dead-like-me-hsien-ko-team-disscussion-thread-265029/index3.html

1234

You don’t see her airdash as being too slow? It was an important part of her pressure in VSav. Here, it’s predictable. Her forward ground walk speed is fine; she was never really meant to do much of that. Even if Capcom just bumped her airdash speed up, it would help her out a lot.

And yeah, I mostly play offline because it’s frustrating trying to fight against the lag. I’ll get good matches though, even if input delay makes me occasionally drop combos, which is also frustrating. Keep repping Hsien! She needs all the love she can get, gameplay wise anyway. Could you explain what the strategies that the other players were using that didn’t work against her but against other characters? Was it the teleporting you mentioned?

Also, how do you guys deal with Taskmaster? The guy pretty much has everything up his sleeves, and that’s without giant sleeves to boot.

1235

Nageki has to be the most positive hsien-ko player if he can’t see how flawed she is as a character

1236

^ Was that necessary?

1237

Justin.tv - 2GoodGaming - CSULB 2GG SMACKDOWN 1.2

Quite a lot hsien-ko play(including me) if you guys wanna check it out.

1238

Her air dash is a huge problem when you want to rush down, but its all in the way you utilize something. Her air dash to me is more of an avoidance kind of thing. The distance it travels makes it worth it when you predict a hyper and airdash clean over it. Other char’s would have a problem avoiding something like. That can possible lead to you winning a match when someone is burning meter in order to try to chip you out.

I use her air dash as a slow mixup too, super jump air dash then Senpu M or H, then you decide whether to do swing back to where you were or keep going. You dont have to worry about teleports because of senpu and people have a hard time figuring out where there char is after a senpuu “cross up”.

And to my man who said hsien ko is a flawed char show me where she fails in ANYTHING but movement, upclose (as 80% of the char’s in the game will be anyway) she is just as fast and just as deadly as other char. She is great because of what she is given, if your using her wrong that your problem, not lei lei’s.

Ill explain what strategies worked and didnt work on her later, im meeting a friend for lunch

1239

Think her damage could be better :frowning:

Nice Spencer > Hsien-Ko DHC in that video :3

1240

Yeah, that DHC was sick. I’ve been doing a similar thing with Haggar after a Body Burst, but the timing is super tight. That looks a lot more forgiving, maybe I’ll have to give BioCom a try…

Hsien-Ko’s DHC trick is nasty with supers like that, because you can DHC into her armor super, go to cr.H, launcher, air combo, and air exchange to get her right back out again if you want. Risky but useful and stylish, she’s in, armored, and out in 5 seconds or less.

Edit: Oh yeah, and combos like that usually wind up at about meter-neutral.