I must’ve been playing the wrong game then, because they sure as hell aren’t any slower than CvS2. Maybe SF4 at its worst, but that’s it.
SF4 is EASILY slower than CvS2. SFxT… Skullgirls… how are those games even in the same class as CvS2, speedwise?
The only thing CvS2 did faster was walkspeed and actually being able to kill someone faster. Even if they’re slower, it’s not by as much as you think it is. CvS2 seemed to get slower when better players played each other, compared to the other games.
Yeah, I’ve been playing 98 seriously since '09 and in the past months I’ve been grinding CVS2 (on stick, and I’m a pad player) so I can get ready for STA ranbats. So far I like the game, the pace is pretty slow though compared to KOF. For me, CVS2 is the version of the SFAlpha series that won’t make me mad (as much.) and gives me some middle ground to mess around with neutral game hop footsies. I think if CVS2 got one more rendition that wasn’t EO, it could have been even better than it is, not saying it’s a bad game or anything. Just wished characters such as Kyousuke were more viable or characters like Mai had longer hitconfirms into meterless knockdown. Otherwise, I feel that tier stratification is mainly due to damage output rather than tools (although stuff like recovery times and hitconfirms play into tools.) Personally, I think the game could be more fun without roll cancel, but in return many specials need to be overhauled and just made better in terms of start up speed, retraction of hurtboxes in relation to hitboxes, and recovery time/push back on block. Roll cancel just seems to be a lazy way of making “eh/meh” moves good in a kinda obnoxious way. Just take out the convolution and just make moves good.
For example there are moves like Kyo’s Aragami (qcf+lp/mp) that I really like to use as a poke in KOF. It’s fast, reaches kinda far, has a decent hurtbox and when it comes out it just mainly loses to well placed low pokes from certain ranges, and is more or less safe on block. In CVS2, I feel it’s only really viable as a poke if it’s RC’d just so it won’t be counter poked on start up and the MP version of the move is only safe if you absolutely tip it. A good way to actually remedy it is just change around the hurt box, decrease start up time and as well as recovery time. So, it becomes more viable as a poke, will lose to projectiles at certain ranges (didn’t test if it nulled projectiles like in 98), and will lose to properly space low pokes such as a low forward by a shoto or something, and will be safe on block.
Although Parry and Just Defend are in the game, I think I just still want to see a stronger projectile game that isn’t Guile or Sagat (and Sagat doesn’t even really do Tiger Shots). If you’re playing a non-parry/JD groove, people would just play a cool mid-ground game and people being more willing to roll against certain projectiles and specials and the defender will have to play a stronger footsie game and react to rolls and either meaty or throw punish them.
But, I can see why people would want roll cancel and it is what makes CVS2, CVS2. So if the game was rebalanced one more time that wasn’t EO but included Roll Cancels, I think the main thing that needs to change is just Damage Output and low hitting hitconfirms into meterless knockdown. Characters such as Sagat has cr.lk st.lp st.lp into tiger knee or Cammy with 3 low shorts into spiral arrow. But characters such as Haohmaru only has cr.lk st.lk or Kyousuke has cr.lp x2, cr.lk xx qcf+mk. With Yamazaki, it’s fine he can only chain out of cr.lp because he has other ways to open characters with command throws or instant overheads. Then with damage, you have decent characters like Yun that could do stuff like cr.lk x 2, cr.lp xx qcf+MP and do fine opening up characters but pretty low damage in comparison with the higher tiered characters that could just do whatever into damage.
I think if these two main things a remedied, mainly by making certain far light attacks special cancelable rather than only super cancelable and buffing up damage rather than lowering the top tiers, there could be more character diversity without taking away from what made CVS2 enjoyable in the first place, especially those that really liked RC, those that like playing A-Groove characters and liking the damage, those that really like playing Sagat footsies and getting chunks off by pressing a cr.HP or something then converting into super, and everything else will be left intact while buffing everyone else that needs it but being mindful of just how much damage they’ll be doing. I heard by adding in the super cancel from specials in EO made Geese’s damage really disgusting by doing whatever hitconfirm into hcb+K xx deadly rave > link another hit confirm xx hcb+K. But otherwise, damage should be buffed in general for those that need it.
Oh well, it’s all just meaningless banter right now since I have no means to mess around or tinker with CVS2 to my liking and that there is no sign of a CVS2 rebalance or a CVS3 being made. So for now, I’ll just keep learning CVS2 while playing 98 on GGPO. Right now I feel my main team is K-Kyo/Terry/Hibiki but I suck dick on stick and I can’t do simple shit like Cammy cl.HP > far HK xx super or hitconfirm Sagat’s cr.HP xx super (I can, piss easily, on pad though.) Main thing is that STA Ranbats can’t support pad for CVS2 so I have to learn to play by stick and I can do stuff like Nakoruru pressure pretty consistently or do Morrigan’s cr.lk > cr.mp > cr.hp xx lp lp f. lk hp with increasing consistency. I just lack the stick dexterity due to the increased range of movement I have to do things.
On a side note, is there a way to make RC’s more consistent in regards to motion moves? I just try to buffer the roll within the motion (trying to avoid accidentally setting off the special with my roll input) then trying to hit the special within the 3 frame window. I’ve been grinding out testing it with the Rec/Play function in training mode and I can only hit like 2-3 RCs with Iori’s Rekka out of 20-30 times. I keep grinding and it’s slowly improving, but I feel better off just playing K-Groove although I don’t want to have to deal with a small guard bar. I tried doing 3s style kara-cancels for roll cancels but obviously that didn’t work.
Then shoutouts to Yane for inspiring me to keep playing Terry in CVS2, Gao for Nakoruru, Chari for Vice, and Rai for Mai. And that one Yun/Benimaru/something player that was doing well in some A-cho footage. And Desora for Ratio-4 Raiden.
Umm… if walkspeed is faster… isn’t it faster? Especially if there’s running in the game also? And as somebody that has logged more hours into CvS2 than most people on this planet… you don’t really have any leg to stand on telling me that the newer games aren’t slower by as much as I think. I know how much slower they are.
And as a “better” CvS2 player, I know how the game gets at high level. It’s not “slower” at high levels. Some players play slow, others play it faster. It has nothing to do with level of skill. It’s just player preference… and which player can impose their will. Combofiend plays fast… Ricky plays fast… Bas plays fast. Justin plays slow… Steve H plays slow… others are in between. That’s the game.
Alright, fine I retract my statement. I was wrong, I apologize for wasting your time.
I think Mai has a legit bnb for no meter. cr. short st short cr mp xx ryuuenbu (I forgot what strength the special move is).
As for Kyo replace qcf+lp with a poke for st rh. Good range, super cancellable if you’re using it as a punish. Much safer, although I think if its JD’d you can punish it.
Edit : You may know the above already, just thought I’d chime in if you didn’t.
Didn’t know about the Mai link I’ll test it. If you’ve seen me play KOF before, I love abusing the sobat in conjunction with qcf+A. Like a typical blockstring from me would be cl.C > far D > aragami. In CVS2, I could threaten to poke with Far HK but I could stand outside of that range to make them feel kind of safe to want to hop or something and I want to be able to threaten with an Aragami. So the main deal is to just kind either get them grounded to find another opportunity for them to walk a bit and counter poke or force them into a full jump. But yeah, Aragami is just how it is in CVS2. So play mainly around sobat, sweep, cr.lk, cr.mp and anti-airing with st.MK and cr.HP and try to check space with hop back and hop forward j.HK. Not completely the same, but as similar as I can get to KOF Kyo. I like how his old hop cross up set ups with j.LK work like with j.B, it’s just that I can’t really get anything off of it unless I commit to canceling the hop-in recovery with a DP or something.
Anyways, yo thanks for the input.
Mai combo definitely works.
Cr. short-> stand short-> cr. Strong xx Fierce flame fan thingy
You have to be absolutely at point blank for it to work, but that’s not super hard. It’s her most useful combo, IMO.
Good news guys!!
Darkstalkers “fans” (ie: Morrigan and Felicia fappers) will finally shut the fuck up!! No more overhyping a series that isnt really cherished and adored in the real FGC, and no more downplaying hype for the absolutely more deserving of a resurrection franchise , Capcom vs SNK.
I was never into Darkstalkers… and I don’t know very many people who ever were… but… I can definitely say there were more people clamoring for Darkstalkers, than Marvel Super Heros… so I’ll give Capcom that one.
Plus, Vampire may be exactly what we need right now. A faster-paced, still ground-based game. It could be REALLY good… so I’m not gonna hate on it.
I know how you feel, i dropped KOF 98 for CvS2, when it came out. The main thing is that is a capcom game, so it rewards more footsies and a slower kind of gameplay (or less frenetic, if you want to call it like that). But thats the beauty: CvS2 feels like its own beast, even with drawing characters and gameplay elements from other games.
Lots of KoF heads over here (the caribbean, aka KOF land) played it too, and they too were hooked. The ones that liked 2002 were pretty happy in A-Groove (including the best 2002 player at the time), and the others played K,N and even C-Groove. Just keep playing, game gets mad fun in the later stages, even with RC.
There are still plenty of slow paced, space and footsie oriented games out there to enjoy. Im still sure CvS2 will drop sometime in the future. I’m sure Alpha wil be next tho’.
Well Ono mentioning that Alpha was the next on his radar helps that statement.
Ah, not too sure as I don’t keep up with the new regarding Capcom fighters.
I feel Capcom could have done more with the hop footsies/spacing game but the recovery upon doing a hop normal is just so ugh. Right now I’m also grinding out Vampire Savior with my stick and I can say that is the most KOF like. The thing is, I used to be a 3s player before I learned KOF and dabbled in CVS2 and etc. before jumping aboard to KOF so the grounded game isn’t necessarily that new to me. I still prefer 98 over CVS2, but CVS2 is a nice mid ground for me to play an SF Alpha game because Rose, Valle CC, and Air CC make me mad in Alpha 2 and Alpha 3 just feels gross in general. CVS2 is pretty much an SFAlpha game with more interesting character roster and subsystems and I like playing my SNK and Capcom mains all together, Hibiki is really nice because she and Amano are my mains in LB2 (which is funny because she plays very little like she did in LB2.)
So far I think I might pull a team Buktooth but be dumb and play in K Groove because I can’t RC consistently. But I can get down stuff like Morrigan’s ground string into her SGS.
What am I doing? I should be learning to play Cyberbots again (but be boring and play Bloodia because I like tridashes and instant air stop.)
I don’t get how they didn’t try something new with KOFXII. It doesn’t have any resemblance to any KOF game before it other than recognizable characters. They reinvented a new style of spriting for the first time in nearly a decade. They implemented a CC mechanic, which has never been in a KOF game before.
I do agree that characters feel stripped down, and that’s the case even in KOFXIII. Some characters like XIII Kyo, Andy, Billy and Mai have reverted back to their old '94-'95 moveset, while characters like Daimen and Mature still play like it’s 1998. Other characters Like Takuma, Vice, and Athena got new stuff to tack on to their old moveset, and characters like Kensou, Ralf, Chin, and XIII Iori feel like new characters. It seems as though the developers spent more time on some characters than others.
I can just imagine the salt from all the casual folks getting blown up by CCs online.
I was already depressed when I found out CvS2 came out on PSN in Japan. They need to bring it to the states and if possible, make an HD version. I’d be somewhat excited for a CvS3 but, I love the CvS2 system already and am worried/unsure of what they’ll do to improve/change the game if they give the go ahead for a sequel. CvS2 is probably my favorite fighter and to see it on the current consoles in some way shape or form would be way dope.
It just felt like a more stripped down primer for more complex KOF stuff to me, like how SF4 was intended to be a more inviting to unseasoned players before they jumped into more complex iterations like 3s.