I guess I can’t bail just yet…
When I was on Alphaism Radio, I asked FlashMetroid why people didn’t play CVS2EO. He said the game became more imbalanced as more characters became less viable due to the loss of RC and that certain characters got 100% combos thanks to P Groove buffs such as Geese. RC is still beatable, the special move has the properties of a roll so you can throw it.
Essentially, EO was a worse game than arcade CVS2. On a different tangent, it would have made sense if Capcom and SNK collaborated to make CVS2 a “Capcom vs. SNK” game if it weren’t for the fact that it wasn’t in their contract. All they did was have some contractual rights to each other’s IP and competed against each other to make a better game, there was no share in the profits. That’s partially why SNK tanked in 2000 since they couldn’t get revenue from Capcom’s project. If anything, that’s what Capcom is doing exactly now with Namco for SFxT. SFxT is still an SF game with their interpretations of Tekken characters and some of Tekken’s subsystems like TTT’s health bar system and certain character properties such as Kazuya’s dash going under projectiles. It’s no different in CVS2 as Capcom interpreted sidesteps, rolls, hops, running, and other character specific attacks and properties such as Benimaru’s Far D becoming Far HK and getting Guile-like sobat properties or Terry being made into a footsie/poke character than rushing in with hops and a cr.B, cr.A xx df.C xx Special hitconfirm.
If anything, the SNK characters play like themselves within the context of a SF game. One may say “Vice isn’t Vice if she can’t combo into a command throw,” but she has many other aspects that makes her the “Vice” in KOF games. She has cr.LK, cr.LK, cr.LP xx qcb+P just like in KOF, great st.MP like she has Far C, and have a really strong ground game and ability to anti-air well just like in KOF. Then she gets neato buffs for being in an SF/CVS2-unique system as she’s able to tick throw, zoning with a larger variety of normals, granted a better jump and hop arc, get that new follow up for qcb+P so there is more purpose in using it in the corner or not and have more diversity in options, and among other things. So it’s still mainly a SF game, but there is still much semblance to SNK-esque features that got a bit of tweaks just as SFxT is doing with Tekken characters and features.
On the flip side, Capcom did add in those SNK subsystems into their game to an extent to make it still a SF game that has some SNK influence. If anything, what stuff such as the N Groove and K Groove introduced to the SF series was KOF style air footsies involving hops. Although hops lost their ability to do the same sort of high and low pressure as in CVS2, being able to zone like a turtle Iori in 98 or as Benimaru general does exists in CVS2. There is a new form to approach and retreat while covering the “hop space” (near most character’s heads and within the “Standing Jab/Far Strong” sort of range and space) all while remaining in the SF context of grounded, walking footsies. The answer to hops, much like in KOF, is to hit it with a Standing Jab/Far Strong/Far Fierce/or whatever covers that space. Another feature is that Capcom obviously took note that certain Heavy normal attacks in KOF have about 2-4 frames of start up and took that concept and went fucking nuts in CVS2. Attacks such as Cammy’s Far HK, Sagat’s st.HP & cr.HP, Blanka’s cr.HP became KOF style fast (although it’s usually Close Heavy normals in KOF that were this fast, so Capcom went overboard in an interesting fashion) heavy normals, while returning SNK/KOF character also retain such speed such as Iori’s cl.HP/cl.C. So this game just isn’t a plain SFAlpha game with SNK characters, it’s a new type of SF game that brings in SNK systems to expand SF’s own grounded footsie game.
Then when looking further upon the game, because of the newly expanded footsie game and longer hitconfirms that characters generally have, quite a few characters almost feel like they’re designed in a SNK/KOF fashion.
One example I like is K Groove Ken. He hitconfirms like a KOF character with his cr.LK x2/3, st.LK xx hcf+LK string and cr.LK hitconfirms into super, has a hop and good standing normals for KOF-esque footsies, cancelable sweep like quite a number of KOF characters have (I know he had this in SF before even KOF was made but having it does influence of how he “feels” as a KOF character), and gaining new moves like that rdp+K that feels more like Kyo’s R.E.D. Kick than Sean’s from 2i/3s.
So there was some re-imagining of some Capcom/SF characters while others took a brand new face such as Kyosuke, Maki, and Eagle for they haven’t been in a traditional 2D fighting game beforehand. Sometimes, I even see Daidouraku do running cr.LP pressure in N-Groove as if it was KOF or something. The game is what it is, a SF game expanded with SNK footsies with reinterpretations of not only SNK characters and systems but of Capcom’s as well, all while retaining that main SF style and feel. Capcom didn’t have a true partnership with SNK in the contract, they were competing and making separate products. Maybe if they did a true collaboration, they could have made the so-called true “Capcom vs. SNK” game but that didn’t happen.
I’m not saying that a “Capcom vs. SNK” game shouldn’t happen. I’d like to see 6 button Capcom Grooves against 4 Button SNK Grooves. SNK Grooves could retain mobility and gain new angles of spacing and control thanks to hops/hyper hops/running/rolling/sidesteps while the Capcom grooves have better grounded control with a 6 Button movelist (anti-hop/hyper hop), larger throw range (anti-roll/sidestep), faster walk speeds than SNK Grooves, and etc.
I’d like to see the ability to combo into command throws with SNK Grooves, but any groove to “play against” an SNK Groove would gain the ability to alternate guard, but not the SNK Groove itself. Let’s say there’s a revamped C and N groove. N Groove would be able to combo into command throws and what not, but since it’s playing against C Groove it can’t Alternate Guard and C Groove SF Style tick throws would body N Groove. On the other hand, C Groove would have the ability to alternate guard to save itself from N Groove/KOF-like okizeme. If C Groove were to play against A Groove in this “new game”, neither of the grooves in this match would have alternate guard and it’ll play out mostly like a SF match with tick throws and footsie-style throw punish against whiffed normals. If S Groove were to play against N Groove, both grooves would have the ability to alternate guard against each other and play like a SNK/KOF game with setting up tick throw with command grabs, beating tick throws with alternate guarding, and beating out alternate guarding with staggered low attacks and overheads.
Back to the 4 Button system, I’d like to see a true SNK-style Normal attack movelist for Capcom characters and gaining new attack strings such as being able to do st.C > Command Normal or cr.B, cr.A > Command Normal, and be truly designed for KOF. On the flipside, I’d like to see optimized movelists and new normals for a 6 Button system to SNK characters that didn’t have beyond 4 Button movelists and play like great SF characters with strong ground games and have a new interpretation of ground control.
Personally I’d say this game could work out and that’s what I’d like to see with CVS3 or the sorts. If Capcom collaborates with SNK again does the deal they had in the past where they’re just competing against each other again, I doubt my ideal game would be made since they’d most probably try to create something either very familiar or totally new since both their products would probably be the same if they both tried to make the kind of game I wanted and that wouldn’t do too well for business. If they truly came together to make a single game, I’d really want to see CVS3 kinda like the way I imagined it. Two different schools of ground based footsies, but still have the abilities and strengths to balance each other out in a match.
I want to play SF against KOF. Other times I want to play KOF against SF. I want to play SF/Capcom characters in a KOF style but against an SF style system. I want to play KOF characters in an SF/Capcom style system against a KOF style system. Maybe I want to play KOF characters against KOF characters while we both have SF sytle systems. Vice Versa, all SF/Capcom characters in KOF systems playing against each other. It’ll be a fun mix and match while it all still works out.