OMG, this pisses me off so fucking much.
Shorter Ilthuain: “Throws are cheap and need to be fixed.” Seriously man, nobody has business making judgment calls on game balance until there’s a good enough pool of high level examples to evaluate. This is like Competitive Fighting Games 101.
I want you to sit back and read this again. It’s absolutely ridiculous. Why should anyone care what your “fairly comfortable with fighting games” office buddies think?
Considering that I saw Sanford making fairly poor decisions in a few other matches in that tournament and that RyRy basically carried his team, I dunno if that says much.
I more or less agree with the rest of your post though.
Yes instead these game’s should be balanced around babby’s first XBL match.
Except that’s EXACTLY the same philosophy the Vs dev team has had for the last 10 years.
They don’t rerelease or patch a DAMN thing. You either get good or you fuckin suck. It’s obvious that’s how this dev team feels.
I don’t think there is any underlying thought behind this from the dev team. They are just lazy as fuck. =p
inb4
"Blah blah blah, You try fixing a vs game blah blah blah"
You say this game shouldn’t be about measuring skill, yet you and your friends desire genuine wins. You can’t have it both ways. If you’re trying to discern what’s fair and unfair, then you’re already committing yourself to learning the game. That means you must go through the same learning curve as everyone else, even if you need to be “justin wong” level in order to meet your goals.
Casually, Sentinel is just another character and xfactor is the blue shell from mario kart.
XvSF revisions A B and C would like a word with you.
Care to elaborate?
Although a better retort would have been TvC: Ultimate All-Stars.
Those happened over 10 years ago iirc, but I see your point.
An alternate interpretation of that could be that they were not interested in adapting the game for high level play to create wider pool of viable characters for those hardcore vets to enjoy at the top level. How viable Spiderman was at the top level of MvC2 meant less to random kids 8 years ago than it did to those dedicated dudes who got bodied trying to make him work.
Last time I checked, modern fighters (like all other games of this generation) have been shining the proverbial shoes of the lazy/casual masses. Most accessibility measures annoy the hell out of the ‘real’ players that balancing supposedly must appease.
There’s no doubt Street Fighter devs would welcome the input of players such as Mago, Luffy or Marn on what could be done with their games in the interest of the minority of players who put in their 9 hours to play the game at the highest level; but they won’t e-mail them to get those suggestions to act on.
The bulk of the fighting game audience these days would be mostly the intermediate hobbyist, and input is taken from a large collection of feedback from any level of player to help make decisions that better the game for as many of the different parties as possible. Balance isn’t an exception. Helping to grow the competitive scene is just another means of broadening/sustaining the game’s appeal and reputation.
The first thing every Joe Wannabe wants to know about a new fighter in this age is the tier list. We know what the talk is like amoungst GameFAQs users that assume the data taken into account in writing up tier orders is as relevant at the basic level of play. Many are very keen to know what is cheap, what to spam for easy online wins, and what to blame for defeats.
While there would have been plenty of reputable tournament personalities suggesting vanilla Sagat could do with a small tone down in damage and a slight tone down in health; there were 1,000,000,000,001 youtube commenters saying he needed way less damage, way less health, way less priority and way more recovery.
Controversially, they stripped Gen of several of the real player’s key findings that had made him playable in order to appease concerns about “turbo abuse”.
You’ll find that while fireballs haven’t been taken out of the game; thanks to the vast passive-aggressive “Shoto Fighter 4” crowd, fireballs have been progressively weakened with each version and word of Street Fighter x Tekken points to fireballs being weaker still. Complaints about charge characters ‘dominating’ SSF4 from non-hardcore parties such as GameFAQs (and SRK) users have also seen them nerfed in AE.
As it happens, Blanka Balls themselves did go through some ‘adjusting’. Evidently they annoyed too many kids; players sighed and got on with it since they were already bad.
K’
Patches happened in arcade ALL the time. (6 versions of sf2, 3 versions of XvSF, 3 versions of street fighter 3, 3 versions of alpha)
The only reason patches didn’t happen in MvC2 was becuase
-
They didn’t have the rights to rerelease/remake the game until now
-
The game has already been well established in it’s DC state, any game changing patches would cause an uproar.
-
The pace in which the versus series were being released in the 90’s(I friggin love how everyone ignores this) made any patches after seem unnesory becuase the very next year a new game would be release anyway, they figgured everyone would jump on board.
-
Can you HONESTLY say that MvC2 would be released today and not get it’s ass patched? Tell me what you want, but I HIGHLY doubt that Capcom would purposely let that game survive when there was always a character dominating to the point of which his value on your team made many other characters (30, 2/3’s of the cast) useless.
-
It’s TOO obvious that this game will develop much faster then MvC2. With players hittin up “the lab”(seriously, i fucking hate this slang) and with previous experience, the game WILL develop faster. We will find out shit in this game much faster than we did MvC2. Oh look, we already made finding out new combos useless and unpractical in a match.
.6 Don’t talk about the intentions of the vs. dev team that has not only not been making this game, or any versus game in the last 10 years, but had a history of patching thier own games in the past. On another note, THIS IS NOT THE SAME DEV TEAM. Just stop running your mouth.
“I sawz a cuple ov srk proz (those same people admitting to not being good at MvC2, those in this section prerelease) saying not patchez so I desidez to followz, to lookz smartz”
Justin Wong is an outlier. You can’t base things around him.
That’s like basing 3s off of Kuroda. Just because Kuroda is able to win with Q doesn’t mean it’s an even fight. It just means he’s an incredible player enough to overcome deficiencies.
Did I mention the SF games?
Where was I talking about non vs games?
Plz tell me.
That said, Seth already has said xfactor is being looked at so alot of you need to calm down. That’s the main gameplay the engine has. If that gets toned down the game will go from decent to pretty damn good.
Lmao wut. The whole post was about how patches were not uncommon back in the day, you disect ONE part, not even a good one, and all of a sudden that whole post is wrong, even though that whole post was about the versus series anyway.
Once again, stop runnin your mouth. People have legit reasons to be concerned about certain things. The fact that X-Factor has too much of an influence over the game is one legit concern. But yanno, with seth working at capcom and all, he obviously isn’t trying to tone down the negativity and all.
I’d like to get back on topic now thank you.
You brought up something that I wasn’t even discussing. Of course I will call you on it and dismiss it. Also telling me to stop running my mouth is pretty immature and silly considering this is a discussion forum. You yourself have made sum pretty silly and outlandish posts on this forum and you don’t see me telling you to not post.
I see some legit concerns like x-factor and I see a whole lot of unsubstantiated garbage like how resets aren’t good which makes no kinda fucking sense. Just because something isn’t damn near free anymore doesn’t make it not good.
You said yourself the game is evolving rapidly. Did it ever come to mind that the game itself is evolving sooner then the people themselves can adapt. We know what chars are capable of, but we aren’t at a point where we can all fight it well or adapt to it well so everything seems lopsided or OP. Sentinal definitely comes to mind. Most of us agree he isn’t even THAT great, but no one save few of us has the skill to back that up. We CAN see it though. We can see his flaws in his huge hitbox, slow normals, how is basically free to good rushdown, we just need a bit more time to make those weaknesses matter.
That’s why we need to wait. Give the game a year or at least until after Evo.
LOL…no doubt. although, as you mentioned, Capcom is only following the trend like other game developers.
sure. i have no doubt it influences game development to a degree. unlike in the past, there are so many ways to get in contact with companies in a number of different ways and they encourge this feedback. inputs too hard? ez inputs. don’t like getting steamrolled? comeback mechanics. can’t find the launcher button? we’ll create a special button for you. don’t want to practice, but still want do major damage with a minimum of effort? we can fix that for you.
I would like it if failed air exchanges had more of a penalty. Its pretty low risk high reward and also if you are only playing someone once on ranked you don’t have time to figure out their pattern or habits.
but that’s the problem of ranked, and the game should not based around bo1 with people you never play again.
but yeah ariel exchange is kinda weird, I kinda want it to change but I don’t know in what way exactly.
it’s just wonky at the moment.
I preferred the way it worked in TvC: It cost 1 meter to use instead of giving a meter bonus, but it could not be escaped.
If not that, I think I’d like it better if inputting multiple escape commands actually worked; as is, it only accepts the first command. Or maybe they could make it like the early builds where countering lets you immediately combo into an air combo of your own.
Trying to appease the players who can’t be assed to put time into the game is impossible. They claim to want 5-5 matchs up across the board, large roster, and no cheese tactics, projectile spam, etc etc.
Why would they try to please the unpleasable? They cry about EVERYTHING and don’t bother to figure out how to beat it. They are bad and put the blame on the game being unfair. Capcom tried giving these people stuff to help them cope (Ultras, XF, lenient inputs). Now there’s one more thing people learn to properly implement that the people unwilling to learn and practice don’t.
Capcom is pretty comfortable with knowing that the hardcore fighting game player will still give the game a shot regardless of all the new features and changes they make, so they look to branch out and widen their market. The hardcore player will adapt and find away to make use of all the features in the game like abusing the SSF4 leniency to get an autocorrect DP or a DP from crouch, guaranteed damage from comboing into Ultra or XFC.
Regardless, all the tweaks and changes they make every game feel unique and different for better or for worse. Fighting games would be pretty stale if all they did was keep making them like SSF2T and never try anything new or tweak something old. I appreciate the effort but they seem to be catering to a market at the moment that just jumps to whatever game is marketed the hardest. Those people will be dropping MvC3 for MK9 when that comes out and then drop that for SSF4 AE CE.