Ugh.
Assists are more punishable on entry (generally) and less punishable on exit in MvC3. They also take a ton of damage, and hitting the point character has no effect on them.
There’s nothing wrong with that. I thought being able to stuff assists by hitting the point character in MvC2 was retarded. Glad to see something different here.
I would also like to see better AA assists, and have them take a bit less damage.
No. They aren’t. They’re designed to get sales. The only time they’re designed for ‘high level play’ is when the installed playerbase is already playing at ‘high level’. That doesn’t happen with things like video games which cost several million dollars for a AAA title. You don’t design something like that so you can sell to 1% of the people who are already going to buy it anyway.
mvc2 was not designed around high level play… The only game that comes to mind that was designed with the intent of mastery and high level potential would be 3S. Look how well that did for Capcom. They learned their lesson.
mvc3 is not designed around players like justin wong. it’s designed to be fun and exciting for people who like fighting games. It’s designed to be entertaining and playable for people who just like games. They want to make a relatively fair experience no matter who you pick but that doesn’t mean they made it for the cream of the crop. They most certainly didn’t; there’s no money there.
Hmmmmm in around 800 battles online i’ve had around 5 badly laggy ones?
Luck of the draw tbh, most people have their internet setup in backwards stupid ways or have housemates torrenting or killing their connection, or are on ISPs with awful ping/upload.
When conditions are good this game is lovely, nothin wrong with this netcode.
The matchmaking when outside of arcade request… now that is an actual problem.
He’s a beast, but he does have some big weaknesses, i can understand everyone’s complaints but people are making out he’s far better than he is.
These are terrible ideas… Making anything a set amount or removing any options from the one being hit are just asking for inescapable infitinites and resets.
Smash brothers was never a game that should have been taken as seriously as it was, the producer has even said as much, its an ok-ish party game and thats what it was meant to be. The options and elimination of elements of the game were merely rampant fanboys trying to force the game into some form of competitive validity… Forcing a game into being what its not by removing elements of it is not good design on the side of the developer or community.
Marvel does not need that in any way shape or form, nor have any of the Vs series.
The rules EVO and other tournaments have set for any decent fighting series in the past have been to protect players against glitches ,problems in the game that fell through the net, banning boss characters who were never meant to tournament playble or in the case of 3rd strike’s Draw game decision, that will be for the crowd, you wouldn’t wanna lose a tournament based on decision.
Argh, shoryuken’s been down so much lately =( I forgot to copy my post into the clipboard so I have to retype this…
Yes, we’re figure out MvC3 faster than MvC2. However remember MvC2 has been changing for the majority of the 10 years it’s been out. Moreover, the game’s development takes into consideration what has been learned from MvC2. and there are quite a few changes from MvC2… we are still making discoveries to the game… I say at least wait till the discoveries plateau a bit, or slow down before suggesting balance changes… for all you know new discoveries might throw what we picture now as overpowered way out of place… So not only should we wait till the discoveries slow down a bit, but also allow to see how they interact/counteract each other … THEN there’s a respectable reason to suggest balance changes…
The dev team designed this crazy game with lots of broken shit with this in mind, that there will be discoveries and shit that will throw the balance far away from what they had in mind. If you’re so eager to suggest balance changes I say at least wait till the game settles, if not develop and evolve…
afterthought edits:
Part of the fun is figuring out strategies and quirks to beat things that seem strong… if we fix everything that’s strong before there’s even a chance to find out what can beat it (and don’t say we’ve already done that… I think that there’s so much more to come…) Than it just removes that whole aspect of the game…
At this point, we’re not even entirely sure how all the information we know from the first 2 days of release interact together yet at least not in enough ways to warrant balance changes… and then we have stuff like crossover counter cancels, damage scaling resets… and the whole slew of stuff waiting to be discovered…
And I agree that to a certain extent that it’s people’s laziness that contributes to this mentality…
but yeah… changes like, how the menu works, what button can be used to call an assist when there’s only one left… netcode …etc… stuff like that, sure. suggest changes to those all you want…
That actually very interesting… How did 3rd strike’s Draw game decision work? was it just completely random? and how did tournaments deal with that?
Counter assist cancel, wat?
Crossover counter cancel* sorry… I was thinking alpha counter and then “alpha counter cancel” and then realized it isn’t called an alpha counter in this game… and the alpha counter uses your assist characer and thus: “counter assist cancel” is the result of that muddled throught process… whoops… I’ll go change that now…
You had 3 girls with signs who’d each vote on who they think should win based on the game’s judgement/points based on your attack/defence/technique grades and score.
Vid showing some of myths surrounding the system [media=youtube]yR6gGeO0nyw[/media]
Due to the nature of it and how it could cause arguments based on arbitrary computer decisions or the tiny chance that a perfect game was played on both halves the computer picking someone randomly and for the tournament/crowd/player sake another match would be played in tournaments instead of reliance on judgement.
I think people really have to come to terms with reality on this. Capcom is a company first and foremost. While they are responsible for creating so many of the things we are attached to, they were never trying to do more than generate a fun, entertaining, interactive title to market.
MVC2 is the best example of this. On the surface, it was a rushed, rehashed, utterly chaotic, crazy, brawlfest, with lots of bright pretty colors, incredibly easy to pull off supers and team hypers, with a bajillion characters. All the appealing hooks that a 10 year old at an arcade would go nuts for, no doubt. It’s the players that took this game, and made it what it is, like almost every FG game Capcom has produced.
Maybe it’s having someone like Seth Killian around that somehow makes us feel like Capcom is looking out for us, or has the fighting game community’s best interests in mind when they are developing a game. In truth, we are still just a very small percentage of the market and they can’t spend millions of dollars developing a game for just a tiny demographic, no matter how devoted we are to them. All we can do to help ourselves is keep buying titles, and trying to generate hype and attention to them so that the percentage rises. We’ll never get our perfect fighting game if Capcom decides to ditch fighting games again (or thinking crying for patches will help, the best games we have came from a bit of serendipity).
tl;dr
The fighting game community is just going to have to take what Capcom gives us and turn it into what we can, not what we want, the same way we always have.
That sounds about right for that situation…
I said make the “tech” set, tech happens at the end of a combo how would affecting tech directions in any way shape or form create an infinite at all? The fact that it is a reset, means it is a mixup based off of a situation. If it is a mixup that means there are options to block it. Are you just talking and not thinking about what you’re saying? MvC2 had almost NO unblockable resets except vs. sentinel. He was an outlier, all other resets were escapable so what the hell are you talking about? And no, I don’t want this game to be mvc2, but as I’ve stated before this gameplay has been pretty linear in every tournament that I’ve seen.
Are you even reading my posts? I already said it wasn’t genius design that made smash bros viable for tourney play. Say what you will, but the smash bros was an amazing game competitively. I didn’t play it, but I could see how great this game was. You’re providing information as if it somehow contradicts my statement but it doesn’t. Lets not go into stasis here, if you’re going to quote me address what I’m saying.
MSHVSF would like a word with you. Clearly it did need some sort of system direction because the game had a tournament life of 6 months tops. Thank God MvC1 wasn’t broken until after the game had died, because it isn’t viable for competitive play at all right now. Obviously MvC2 was shaped into what it was completely by the palyers. AHVB wasn’t intentional, neither was fastfly, neither was rom, neither was storm runaway. SO just assuming that developers get it right is ridiculous. This game has gone in a negative direction competitively and they already stated that the game would be patched post evo, because they don’t want another mvc2 on their hands. HOw would system direction hurt?
One more quick thing. Yes we can take games and make them into what we want them to be but that is only when it is within reason. We couldn’t shape CFJ into what we wanted it to be cuz the game was just ass. Same with rumblefish and TvC. Anyone else notice the very small turnout for tvc tourneys and the very short lifespan?
system direction hurts because you will h ave rules that not ALL players will agree upon.
For instance, I think teching left\right or rolling left\right on the ground is a good addition to the series but since you don’t like it, you can turn it off in system direction. It would turn into what smashed has turned into. You have a group of top players dictating whats fair, what should be changed etc… the game should evolve on its own, not cause we’re using system direction to turn off what we don’t like. ITS NEVER BEEN LIKE THAT EVER for a capcom fighter. You deal with what the game gives you to a certain extent. To a certain extent most times have been characters or specific glitches that break the game, NEVER basic engine mechanics like rolling or teching.
In all honesty, a system direction would do more harm than good. As it stands right now, this game IS NOT THAT BAD. Is it mvc2.5 fuck no!!! but its still a good game within itself with some very welcoming changes like tech flipping both directions and the removal of twitch guard\proximity guard. I think its important to note that from mvc1 to mvc2, the game changed HEAVILY and for the better but “for the better” took about 5 years for people to realize that.
and system direction where justin has input as to what gets to stay and what goes? you don’t think people will try to use their status in the community to alter the changes to benefit themselves? For god sakes, justin put cyclops in the low tier league for how long, 4 years? and cyclops is one of the best characters in the game, how the fuck did he make it to the low tier league?..
for the record, I do have my own personal gripes about the game so I’m not 100% in love with it.
I believe what they said was that they wanted the game to settle/boil/whatever I forgot the exact word he used in that interview, and that there would definitely be no balance patches until at “least” Evo (thus, post evo…if there is even going to be one)
If you’re going to imply that that has more to do with the quality of the game than:
then I don’t know what to tell you.
I really think the component of hit stun scaling really limits what can be found and discovered in this game. I’m not saying that we won’t be finding anything new over time… but I do feel the next couple of months will be when the majority of the game is figured out. All of these combo videos coming out are essentially the same combo with maybe 1 or 2 tweaks from the regular BnB or a different assist that essentially has the same properties as another one but just looks different because it is a different character.
So basically what im trying to get at is that I think the arguments comparing how long it took to figure out MvC2 out to this game are kind of silly. The community is much bigger, information is passed around much faster on the internet these days opposed to back when MvC2 came out, and the game engine is much more linear than that of MvC2… limiting the overall creativity.
This isn’t a bad thing by any means though… this game is a lot of fun because it is different. However, I don’t think the game is going to necessarily evolve as much as people think it will. For the next couple months it will see a decent amount of evolution but then after that I don’t expect too much after that.
Smash rules were determined by a big community. No tiny elite group of people have or ever will didctate what happens in smash. Don’t throw out random ass conjectures like they’re facts cuz you’re wrong there.
You’re right, it was either good enough to begin with or we just simply discarded the game and it didn’t last long at all. That is what I don’t want to happen so that is why I think system direction would be good.
U just gonna make up some random ass terms that no one has ever heard of? WTF is a twitch guard or a proximity guard?
Ur just going to throw out some random ass statement that is clearly not based on any logical foundation whatsoever? MvC2 was pretty well received as a whole and tournament play for the game got pretty damn solid. By 2k1 people were already using msp and santhrax and the game had a VERY dedicated tourney scene. the came came out in 2k, so that is less than 2 years…
Justin had very little to do with cyclops being included in low-tier, he wasn’t even one of the prominent people debating about that topic back in the day. Demon Hyo had more influence than justin did and even still it was a low-tier community that got the final say. Stop just throwing shit out there… seriously.
I feel the same, random ass xfactor 3 losses piss me off. I win the majority of my matches (even though I’m playing with lag and shit) so whatever.
lol I assure you that twitch guard and proximity guard are terms people use. Each has a different meaning though twitch guard term though is based off an older term from sf2 known as the jab trap.
you are confusing what I said. I didn’t say anything about people running teams lol. For the better is in reference to the way the game evolved as opposed to how it was first received. I know how early the good teams were in place and it was quite fast.
that was mostly my fault as it was poorly explained.
Another change is less severe hitstun scaling and more damage scaling.
And a less strong sentinel.
(Hope: He gets and other characters like iron man get more then one unfly. Like 4, not 15 or whatever like marvel 2)
Well, Hidden Missile has a similar effect. I ran into a keepaway team of Arthur with Hidden Missile and Lariat knocking me out of offence every time I got to Arthur and I’ll be damned if that wasn’t the most annoying thing you could possibly do in this game.
Now that I’ve noticed the reason for the infamous 16 second match is Haggar assist, fuck this I’m playing a Hsien-Ko gold armour gimmick team, vulnerable assists are for chumps.