Plasma beam isn’t useless though, Wolverine/Laura/Doom can work as long as you play to the characters strengths. Laura won’t give Wolverine much, but Wolverine doesn’t need much to open you up and you can just TAC past X23 for Doom infinites. That being said, if you are going to play that way then might as well go full derp and put something like Vergil or Dante in place of Laura.
He could possibly run Wolverine on point and run X-23 on Anchor if he wanted to. and the middle character could be any projectile assister he likes like Doom, Magneto, Taskmaster, Ironman, Hawkeye. Or even Akuma or Ryu maybe. I guess Dante could work in the middle too. Vergil has a nice mix up with Wolvie too. Sentinel would work also. I mean he is just getting into it and not like he is super competetive so he could play whatever he wanted.
Soooo…I’m dropping Nova from my X-23 team and putting in Vergil…X-23, Vergil, Taskmaster…why? ANY TOUCH from X-23 will build a meter, and DHC to Vergil…bodies start hitting the floor.
Hello, I’m new to the forums and the UMvC3 community in general and was looking for some tips on compiling a team composition for X-23.
Right now I’m thinking about running X-23 // Dorm // Raccoon. Log trap gives her a mid to mid-long range pressure in a way that she can actually convert off while being able to help OTG if not used for the conversion. Dark Hole can also be used for a combo extender as well as help pressure the target with lockdown when you get in close. My only problem with Dark Hole is that I feel as if it’s unsafe as X-23 Doesn’t have any real way of protecting her assists when they are coming out so you might have to rely on TA back and forth above your opponent so that he can’t punish your assist calls from Dorm? I like the DHC options from X-23 and I also like the synergy between Dorm and Rocket Racoon if X-23 dies because I feel log makes Dorm’s zoning a lot safer and harder to get in on as well as letting him convert with teleports off stray logs. I don’t know how good RR is in XF3 but I’ve seen good things from watching Kusaro I believe his name is?
Overall I think she benefits from having two assists that help her neutral game, lock down as well as ranged pressure, and being able to potentially relaunch of either one of them. My only exception to having two potential relaunch assist is having Plasma Beam or Tatsu assists as I feel as if their really safe assists and allows for pretty easy/amateur but potent mixups nonetheless. Notable assists that I’ve seen fit the bill are Repulsor Blast, Cold Star, and Tenderizer. I didn’t mention Jame Sesh becuase I don’t really like it that much for X-23 because even if you do hit Jam Session you’re still forced to go for a mixup because converting off it seems really difficult for X-23 so super jump height characters shouldn’t really have that much to worry about if you can’t convert anything off your anti-air like you could with Repulsor. Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions for assists that might fit what I’m looking for or have any criticism/cons/tips/tech for the X-23 // Dorm // RR team?
I personally run that team, and others have tinkered with it as well. X23/Log is like apples and oranges, and Dorm’s Dark Hole/DHC synergy is really strong for her. I think it’s one of her better teams right now, however the Dorm infinite has been proven unreliable and impractical in most circumstances. The trade off you get is TAC/DHC potential so as long as X23 does really well you can strike a lot of fear in your opponents.
Dorm/RR work very well in keeping the opponent out, some would argue that Dark Matter and Log both do the same thing but Dark Matter has much lower durability and can only travel a horizontal axis. I feel like Dorm needs an assist that keeps the opponent where he wants them, he also gets free relaunches specifically in corners with log.
RR is an ok anchor. He gets his own unblockable and you would be surprised how many people forget about his trap super. One big issue is that X23 and Dorm already eat up a lot of meter, so by the time Rocket gets in his batteries may be on short. He’s much more threatening with at least a 2 meter block so he can lay traps for other popular anchors like Vergil or PHX. I love this team, it can open you up like crazy but a lot of things need to go right and I’m not sure if it will remain relevant in the future metagame. Another sneaky benefit from this team is that you will be using mostly log to cover X23’s neutral, so if a HB happens Dorm comes in with a shitload of meter and XF3 and we all know how dangerous that can be.
I run X23(CS)/IM(RB)/RR(Log) and I still think it’s one of her most ideal teams. Having the ability to TAC infinite into double dirt nap is huge but you don’t sacrifice good neutral assists or combo extension or damage (1mil/-.2 net meter on log hit, 900k/-.25 net meter on RB hit + DHC, 1.2mil/0 net meter on clean hit). IM + Log actually makes IM a threat since Log picks up off his zoning tools (neutral RB and UB all combo into 500~700k anwhere) and gives him a double RB ender on normal combos which gives him ~850k for 1 meter and makes him a great battery since you’re not forced to rush in and you’re looking to play his spacing game, which is where he excels. Neither IM nor RR need the OTG so you can run CS for the invincible alpha counter, which gives you an answer for a whole lot in this game and forces people to actually think when they pressure.
I ran X23/Dorm/RR and I think it’s ok, but not having a TAC infinite option limits your gameplan and makes the team a bit less scary imo. Log and Dark Matter kind of serve the same purpose, too, so you’re losing a charge by not being able to utilize your wall bounce early on in a combo. Dorm def. has one of the best (if not THE best) DHCs for X23, though.
I want to see if there’s any good options running RR(Log)/IM(UB) paired with X23 for zoning/heavy runaway matchups where RB is pretty much useless in neutral. It would make RR infinitely scarier. If I can get a consistent guard break setup that guarantees a UB block I think you might be able to run that for dirt nap guarantees, also.
I understand the benefit of having an infinite to get 5 bars for double dirtnap and the importance of having some bars for RR on that team but with what I feel are not efficient combos that I use for X-23 you either end up 1.2 or .2 positive for meter. If X-23 dies I’m personally a fan of XF2 to get the kill and even the momentum or kill the second character and when you use XF on Dormammu he builds meters like. Also, the strategy for double dirtnap has an overall 33% chance of working, statistically speaking, if you have perfect execution and is overall a pretty good strategy. However, I feel as if the 1 touch > 1 reset >1 mixup > XF1 > Dirtnap has an equal if not greater chance of working against teams since TACs are expected and can be predicited if you have a pattern whereas resets and mixup setups can be much more unpredictable and creative especially when you’re talking about X-23. I remember watching some of Traum’s matches and sometimes his resets look like part of his combo if you don’t know X-23 fully because he just hits and goes into a medium MF in the middle of his combo and if you’re not paying attention you’ll just assume the sound is heavy MF until it’s too late or not see it at all underneath the guise of Dark Hole.
When you say a lot of things need to go right for it to be relevant what do you mean exactly? I feel as if in a lot of bad scenarios you still get a lot of benefits going for you.
-If X-23 dies early because you dropped a combo or got popped you get 2 starting bars and a strong shell of Dorm/RR allowing you to zone or pop dimension or XF for a kill if yo0u get a hit.
-If HBed you get XF3 Dorm which is no joke as you said
-If first 2 characters die to oncomming mixups you get 2-3 bars and XF3 for RR and you get a hover/rocket skate to escape oncomming mixups which is agree is not too strong.
-Bad matchup? Switch to Dorm/X-23/RR and hopefully Dorm point can deal with most of the characters X-23 has trouble with.
Only cons I can really think of for this team is the lack of infinite which I don’t really feel like playing with in the first place even though it’s very potent in X-23’s gameplay. Bad matchups for X-23 and RR you’ll have to rely on doing well with Dorm. And no invincible air supers to prevent getting mixuped by the opponent, but all three come with air mobility out of the corner so their not the worst at it. I’m not really trying to take shots at anyone rather than learn the specifics of what the weaknesses are so I could potentially cover them better in the future with maybe a different team or specific tech I could use.
I feel it’s solely a momentum team. After playing with this team for months one thing I noticed was that as long as momentum is kept on your side, then that’s where the team shines best. It’s a team that is supposed to combat specific threats in the meta today while still giving Laura the synergy she needs to put in work. Although I don’t like to put so much emphasis on Laura making a team great, her importance to get off to a good start is still very important at point because she die very quick against other top tier points. Dorm does really well against Trish/Doom/hovers that create problems for Laura but those characters are almost never seen on point now. More times than not, Laura will be starting the match so her presence must be felt. A good alternative team could be Dorm(DH), X23(CS), RR(Log) so you can bait the alpha counter more specifically.
As I mentioned, the team is uniquely designed to keep momentum with you. The scenario that Laura dies early (and she doesn’t use no meter) gives you Dorm w/meter shell to nuke assist calls, even with XF2 as you said Dorm is still powerful enough to snipe assist or possibly a HB as long as you play diligent. Dorm is simply there for Top Tier muscle, or more notably his DHCs. He has his good days and bad days like everybody else, but with Dorm at least you know what you will be getting. While I played Iron Man solely to utilize his easy infinite, there is no denying his low tier status as a character that needs to do more in order to hold his weight. His DHC’s, though worthwhile, don’t exactly fit into X23’s game and are generally unsafe. Point Dorm’s SF>RT/WXP creates safety insurance in getting Laura in or you can use the alpha counter as I previously mentioned. It works both ways when you are killing something off SF and the opponent is forced to block the remaining hitstun (I’ve found some people just get hit by it to avoid the mixup lol)
RR gives you a top 5 assist, but he too is low tier (though the Japanese thinks he’s great) so it commands that you play to his strengths and recognize his limits. He gives Dorm a pretty good DHC because people love to rushdown Dorm but they forget about the traps. I’m serious, why do people do this? I’ve gotten matches to end because they fell prey to RR traps. It’s not a traditional style of Marvel or a game like this I understand, but I see it more as a asset. His unique size makes it incredibly difficult to HB him, though most of the time you will be calling log off screen so the opponent won’t even see it coming until it’s too late. It’s all centered on the foundation of keeping and maintaining momentum even when things go wrong straight to the last possible resort.
Infinite aside, the team gives Laura ToDs and fuzzy mixups. Dorm gets his own unblockable and RR does too. I went 72-10 with this team online, though I wouldn’t say online should be measurement on how effective it can be. I’ve listed mostly the pros, so I give brief list on what it’s cons are:
Cons
Low tier hero
No sure dirt nap
2 meter eaters
Low health
No infinite (though you said that’s not an issue)
Extremely matchup reliant
Well the other teams I thought of to get rid of those issues, except the low health one since I feel most solid X-23 teams are going to have pretty low health in general, are:
X-23/Ammy / RR - Ammy has an infinite and lets you set up Dirtnaps with Coldstar but is an extremely low health team and is even more reliant on momentum and matchups
X-23 / Mags / Sentinel - Mags and Sentinel have infinites and relatively safe DHCs into and out of X-23 save DHCing from Magneto to X-23. Their DHCs also fit well if used as combo finishers with Rage Trigger or WXP (WXP + Shockwave gives you a full screen shockwave since WXP puts you on the opposite side of your opponent when DHC for some reason). You can use a combination of Hyper Grav + Drones or EMD + Rocket Punch for assists although the first option might be better because I think it lets you set up dirt naps.
X-23 / Shuma / xxx - Shuma is considered low tier but he has an infinite, good neutral game assist that helps with anti-air, mystic ray might be able to otg relaunch for X-23? Personally I tried it but could never get it to work since it was so slow. Helps set up dirt naps, but has the problem of being low tier as well? Although he seems like he’s a pretty solid character I don’t really know the ins and outs of him to say otherwise. Last slot would have to be someone solid with an assist that is either better in neutral game or can otg and can do well with 1-2+ bars of meter on anchor, maybe Wesker because he’s not really meter reliant?
X-23 / Doom / Ammy - Proven shell of Doom Ammy provides a nice fall back, pretty good DHCs, Plasma Beam or Hidden missles depending on matchup helps X-23 get in reliably, two infinites, and setups for dirtnaps.
I thought of trying IM, but I’m not sure how much I like his movement and his DHC options like you mentioned earlier, but Repulsor is so godlike for X-23 that I might reconsider.
Marvel is a ToD game so the health issue isn’t really a distraction, however projectile hell causes insane amount of chip and for lower health characters like X23 it can be a nuisance having to chase stuff around. The teams above all work well in their own way, as to the strongest X23 teams allowing her to kill 2 characters free with virtually little effort. Players need to ask themselves if the double dirt nap engine can be fulfilled in a tourney setting where you aren’t dropping the infinite or getting TAC countered. Most good players have little experience in fighting Laura, but once they understand matchup it’s going to be an uphill road opening people up.
As for IM, I solely played him for the easy infinite. I kept kidding myself thinking there maybe something else there, but I concluded that if you aren’t playing him for the infinite then there’s no reason he should be there over somebody like Doom or Mags.
Are there any real reliable ways to double dirtnap without an infinite + tenderizer/coldstar / repulsor?
A lot of teams can double dirt nap. The main issue is how reliably you can double dirt nap regardless of your opponent’s character’s health. If you have to pop XF immediately after dirt napping, you have issues where you can’t kill people above 1mil easily without burning a meter (or 2) and won’t be able to get a meter back before killing people under 900k. That means there’s a decent chunk of the cast that you won’t be able to double dirt nap on with certain teams.
So it’s more about having an optimal double dirt nap team and being able to pull it off as much as possible. If you check back a few pages there was a big post where I was going through and talking about building double dirt nap teams with high tier characters and I think I listed pretty much every possibility involving RB and JS (I leaft out Cold star since you can dj./air dash out of it, but if you’re good with meaty setups you can use it with no problem.)
My basic requirements when I’m talking about a true double dirt nap team is an assist that guarantees dirt nap, an assist that picks up after dirt nap, and an infinite character. Then out of those options it becomes about finding the optimal options so that X23 can get the hits to go into infinites easily.
Really the infinites are just about building 5 meters, so you can build teams around Dark Harmonizer (LintLikr’s X23/Dorm/Morrigan is a really strong example). X23’s runaway is really good, but you have to sacrifice the neutral assist to go that route.
As far as dirt nap guarantees go, the only 1 button brainless ones are JS, RB, and Tenderizer. It’s still possible to run stuff like Dark Hole, Tatsu, Bolts, CS, etc. you just have to have a really good grasp on her meaty timing/setups so that you can force them down into the assist rather than being able to rely on the free meaty blockstun from the assist.
Thanks, that’s good to know. I really want to stick with X23 / Dorm / xxx because those are the first two characters I picked up simply because I like them and over time I really got to like the DHC synergy (I really enjoy continuing comboing off Rage Trigger > SF > meteors > Launcher) which I feel she doesn’t really have a lot of throughout the cast. I’m not tournament level by all means so not getting an infinite character to be able to double dirt nap is alright for me but it’s good to know what I would need to do to optimize the team in order to take that step.
Also, on the topic of meter gaining assists, is it just me or is Ammy’s Bloom assist 3x slower than Dark Harmonizer?
RT>SF>1C1D is character specific, it won’t work on bigs but characters Wolverine height should be ok (Spiderman, X23, etc.)
Harmonizer’s frames activate much faster than Bloom, but you wouldn’t want to play Bloom with X23 anyway over the likes of Cold Star.
Experimenting with another new team. This time it’s X-23/Nova/Super Skrull. It’s all theory fighter at the moment but I think it’s got some potential.
Pros -
Tenderizer is a suitable lockdown assist.
Centurion Rush is okay in the neutral game.
Double relaunch combos are possible with both assists.
DHC synergy from Rage Trigger to Super Nova to Inferno is strong.
Nova has easy infinites from all directions, midscreen and corner.
Tenderizer gives guaranteed Dirt Nap against most characters.
Nova and Skrull are both strong characters.
Skrull is a strong anchor.
Cons - Unsure at the moment. Tenderizer is obviously not as good a lockdown asssist as Cold Star, Centurion Rush isn’t as good as having a beam, and I don’t really know how much synergy Nova and Skrull have with each other. I know Tenderizer would allow Nova to do his high/lows, but Nova without a neutral assist will be tough against some characters.
So far though, this has been the only combination of X-23 + Infinite character + Dirt Nap guarantee character that I’ve felt comfortable with. There’s no low tiers and there’s nobody as complicated or more complicated than X-23 on the team, which makes it pretty easy for me to pick up and play. I’m gonna test it out in casuals later and see how things go. Thoughts?
My only beef with nova is his lousy infinite (damage-wise…so many reps to kill :/). Tenderizer is pretty worthless as an assist. (Very much just an incoming assist from what little experience I had with it. Bad angle, lots of hits, last hit is the one you have to try to avoid since that’s where the low hitstun hit is.)
What’s the benefit of having Nova over Doom on that team though?
I don’t find Nova’s infinite takes that long to kill, so long as you’re doing the double rocket punch variation over the unfly variation. But then again I’ve spent the last two months killing people with Ammy’s infinite, so nothing seems slow after that ordeal. And Tenderizer is…Interesting. I think it has some unique properties to it. If you space it correctly you can get a broken up lockdown with it, so you have them in a position where they still have to hold downback and respect it but can be opened up in between hits. Running mixups with it almost reminds me of a short-ranged Bolts. The last hit is a bitch though.
No benefit of having Nova over Doom other than the fact that I get to not play Doom. Honestly we should all probably be running Doom second on all of our X-23 teams, it would solve a lot of problems. He’s just so boring as a character that I can never put the time in to learn him though…
Personally, I don’t like playing Doom as a character either. He feels… odd after I’ve played X-23, but like you said for an optimized team he probably is the best. He brings a godlike assist that works well with all of the cast which means when running something like RR, or any last slot assist that is useful for neutral game if they get snapped in and die you still have a solid assist to fall back on as well as solid DHCs and more than likely a strong shell if X-23 dies. If I ever want to forgo fun for results I would probably drop Dorm for Doom so I could have log and missiles.
Does anyone have any advice when to use missiles to help X-23 with relaunches? I tried it before and had trouble figuring out the timing.
You do s.S+missiles, sj.HxxCS HxxTA L, then right after the missiles start hitting you need to do a j. TA L to keep them from being to high to launch into s.S or whatever else.