MvC3: I'm the Second Best at What I Do: The X-23 Team-Building Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
1221

I’m pretty sure the whiff 7 rings > FoF loops works off everything, you just have to grind out the hitstun specifics for your team’s combos. If you don’t have double relaunches, you’re able to get more FoF loops and you can use wall bounce assists to cheat the hitstun scaling a bit too. If you’re running a strange team, you should def. be abusing FoF Loops since it’s pretty much all strange has going for him if you don’t have something like missiles behind him. If you have missiles, strange’s zoning patterns are pretty freaking oppressive and they do well for converting/extensions.

Also, Strange has some really nice synergy with Log if you wanted to go full retard. I’m pretty sure you can hard tag from RR to FoF loops (might need to use mad hopper), Log lets strange pick up off throws without glyphs out and can give an extra rep of FoF loop. That would let you run EoA which gives X23 ground throw conversions and double extensions. If you can find a way to get that corner glyph consistently then you have strange infinites too. I still think Strange is just a gimmick character though, he doesn’t have the normals to play Marvel without a serious assist backing him and I’m not sure how great the zoning patterns are with Log.

1222

I used to run Rocket and while I had fun with him I’m not sure about playing with with X-23 and Strange. The synnergy is definitely there, but I feel like Rocket’s in the same boat as Strange with it comes to matchups, especially if I’m running him anchor with no assists. I don’t think he’d really stop the characters that are giving me trouble right now. I’m curious about EoA though, how do you get ground throw conversions off of it and how would you compare it to Cold Star?

1223

Hi guys. I’ve been thinking about putting X23 on my team (Spencer/Doom/X23) as an anti-Vergil tool because of Silent Kill. You guys think she’s an good anchor ? I had a friend who used to play her but she was on point and i never really saw her as an anchor. I know she has good assists and meterless xfactor lvl 3 ToD but i’ve been wondering how can she break through the opponents defense solo?

1224

She can get the job done on anchor but I wouldn’t recommend it. In that team I think Doom would be a more reliable anchor.

1225

Just do a tick throw and call the assist right before a forward throw, EoA will catch them and juggle them long enough to combo. Same with missiles and Jamming Bomb.

RR has different/better matchups than Strange, though I totally agree that I would never play that team seriously. Honestly I don’t think I would play Strange seriously again.

EoA is really good for oki setups, extension and the ground throw conversion. Cold star is better in neutral. I like EoA better than Cold star, personally, but that’s just a preference thing.

1226

I’m extremely tempted to try EoA now. I get so much out of Bolts but I also land a TON of ground throws that only ever lead to plink dash mixups. Converting them into real damage would be nice. Maybe I’ll try X-23/Strange (EoA)/Hawkeye (Hori Arrows) as a B team to take care of bad matchups. I lose Bolts but Arrows should be fine too.

1227

What do you guys think X23’s top 5 assist are? Here’s my list, in order:

  1. R.Blast
  2. Pendulum
  3. Bolts
  4. Dark Hole
  5. Plasma Beam

Honorable Mentions: Samurai Edge, Hidden Missiles, Cold Star, Drones, Tatsu(Akuma)

1228

I agree with most of that…I would add Cart(so good in neutral that I might be willing to say top 5 if we’re ONLY talking about the assist, having to level up frank makes it a little eh…It doesn’t extend, but it might be the best 50/50 oki assist in the game, hands down), Jam Session (bottom on the honorable mentions imo) and Gamma Wave(top of honorable mentions).

I would put HM way way above plasma beam, it gives lockdown, neutral, tick throw conversion, extension. Plasma Beam only gives good neutral and a crappy extender. If there was a top 5 lists of best assists for baby X23s, this would be on there probably.

Dark Hole is an iffy top 5…I agree that it’s a great assist, but the lack of range is made up by the fact that you get Dorm’s DHC and Dorm as a character. So I’m not sure that it’s because DH is so godly or because the flare follow-up is so absolutely amazing. It’s def. up there, don’t know about top 5 if we’re only talking assists.

I think Pendulum beats out R.Blast by a small margin, both work as dirt nap guarantors (tho RB is much more lenient) but Log plays to X23’s strengths much more than RB imo. Plus it handles HBDs and extends at any point in a combo.

I don’t think Samurai Edge is all that great specifically for X23, it’s def. the easiest extender, but in real matches I don’t think you get many chances to hit hi/low since X23s high options take so long to hit outside of specific matchups. I would say it’s a great assist for new marvel players, but there’s so many neutral+relaunch assists that I have a hard time even putting this in honorable mentions.

I think Nova Cent. rush is up there as long as you can consistently extend with it, X23s lows are pretty terrifying compared to her high game.

Spitfire is a much better drones (and arguably a much better character than sent.) since it comes out low enough to not clash with a lot of assists, has 2 hits spaced for mixups and doesn’t go away if RR gets hit.

1229

IMO, in no particular order…

  1. Cold Star

  2. Drones

  3. Jam Session

  4. Unibeam

  5. Tatsu

Cold Star: Pins people down for ages, sets up for easy fuzzy guards and mix-ups, and can be used as a relauncher.

Drones (Sentinel Force): More or less the same reasons as Cold Star, X-23 has more difficulty extending combos with it, but it travels further. Very good for oki mix-ups on wake-up after Ankle Slice.

Jam Session: Though X-23 can’t get good damage off it due to scaling, its vertical cover is excellent and is the thing X-23 needs to take people out of the sky, which is one of the areas she can’t reach as effectively. Pins people down, comes out quick.

Unibeam: Very good projectile assist that leaves the opponent in a good amount of hit and blockstun. Doesn’t knockdown, so X-23 can either combo off it or use the stun to set up mix-ups.

Tatsu: One of the few assists X-23 can hitconfirm off from stray hits with minimal damage scaling. Comes out quick, excellent to use for Mirage Feint cross-ups and to option select with during the opening gambit. Has some projectile invul. Doesn’t travel full screen though.

Other mentions: Repulsor Blast, Pendulum (Log), Daggers, and a whole bunch of other assists.

1230

Ryuga…you make my heart hurt putting Unibeam above RB… tear

1231

Oh yeah I forgot about how Daggers. Looking at it more clearly now I would probably swap out Dark Hole for something like Tatsu and Plasma Beam for CS.

I feel like X23’s best beam assist is Bolts. It barely scales, braindead confirm, and even if they crouch they are getting crossed up or command thrown. Another one of those quality assist that’s strapped on a sub-par character.

Jam Session is much weaker than vanilla for X23. It has its uses: great pin, anti air support, easy dirtnaps, but not top 5 to me anymore. You make a case for it being Top 10, though. I feel like X23 can get a lot more off other assist though, but at the price of putting up with low tiers.

Pendulum and RB are pretty neck in neck. I actually wanted to put Pendulum in front of RB at first glance, but I’ve played with RB currently more so perhaps I chose out of being biased.

1232

So between both of the top 5 lists you two posted there’s only 2 assists that function as a 2nd extender and probably 50% of them can’t be used for worthwhile extensions. IMO what makes a top assist for X23 are the ones that cover multiple bases rather than the ones that just have a strong neutral use. I feel like the gameplan/meta for her isn’t 1 hit > 1 resets > incoming mixup +XF > Dirt Nap 3rd and Ryuga’s top 5 assists seem to be weighted with that gameplan in mind.

On that note, I’m curious what people feel the ideal gameplan is for X23 is at this point. Here is what I’m typically going for…

1 Hit > 1 TAC inf. kill > 2 dirt naps (pref. guaranteed dirtnaps so there’s only 1 major gamble per match). Def. what I feel everyone should be working towards atm, I feel safe saying gambling a 33% roll of the dice to win a match is never a bad thing. With current tech, this won’t work agains people with Jean, Strider, RR, or Akuma 2nd. I feel pretty confident saying you won’t see that often, though. This is Mahvel at its best (worst?) and I think this is what makes X-23 SS tier.

**1 Hit (with double relaunch to build ~2 meters) > snap anchor in leiu of super > Incoming mixup / XFGC kill using 0~1 meter > dirt nap 2nd > laugh at anchor point with no assists. **I feel that this should be the new non-inf. go to. Having the double relaunch means that you’re able to screw with their team order without sacrificing your future dirt nap options (can still work without double relaunches, but then you HAVE to pop XF to get the meter in many cases and I think that weakens your overall game). Plus people seem to make bad choices when their anchor gets snapped in and their point has a decent amount of red health. Being able to bait a hard tag to their second still means you get a free optimal combo so you’ll usually kill with 0~1 meter while building 2 or against a bruiser, build 2 meters, snap their anchor again, but have the dirt nap this time. Even on times where this doesn’t go like you hope, you’ll usually put people off their game by screwing with their order.

Here’s my question for everyone else…In situations where the point character is a huge threat. (Morrigan, Vergil, Zero, X23, Magneto, other character specialist)

Hit > XF + DHC to kill (leaving you at ~.5-1 meter depending on specifics) > ? I feel like this is the weakest situation for X23 to be put in because chances of getting a dirt nap are slim and most XF3 characters still do well in XF2 so snapping the anchor isn’t as effective.

1233

@Eren/Ephidel: I definitely understand where you’re coming from when it comes to Jam Session. If it wasn’t for the fact that I feel like stabbing someone in the eye whenever I fight the likes of Firebrand/Zero/Magneto/any high-top tier with good aerial mobility lol, I wouldn’t be using Jam Session.

Unfortunately, I feel Jam Session’s a requirement when it comes to dealing with certain chars. It also pins down for Silent Kill too, but really, it’s the aerial cover it grants you. It pinning also helps.

@Merkly: Well actually, my gameplan’s the same as yours (I think? You’re using infinites right?): get a hit>TAC infinite and start mowing down. Sentinel and Ironman would be 2nd for TAC infinites, and it just so happens they have good projectile assists, so it’s like a double whammy. Stuff like Cold Star/Jam Session/Tatsu would be in the 3rd slot, where the 2nd second char doesn’t have to rely on infinites as much. (and even then, Ammy’s got a TAC infinite too.)

Personally, I think X-23 needs so much help in her hitboxes and options that I’ve prioritized that over extenders. I really want to believe Repulsor Blast can cover the air as much as I’d imagine it does, but I’m wary of its vertical range. It does have multiple uses for X-23 though. Beyond getting in and stuff, it’s also about having assists like Cold Star that pin down, so you can have more options in opening people up with “fuzzies”, which really boosts her high-low game and makes her offence more of a threat. I also like using Talon M to get in, and I think Unibeam’s the best assist for it, since it’s got a lot of stun on hit or block and if the Talon M connects, I can either convert off the hit (for scaled damage) or set up mix-ups/“fuzzies” on block. (or hit.) Though, I’d be willing to use Repulsor Blast+Tatsu assist.

Relaunching with Cold Star’s quite awkward, I admit. But it pins down for ages and is a free mix-up if it connects.

As for the options, ideally, you want the whole team dead, so you have to aim for 3 Silent Kills. If you wanna take another gamble, TAC infinite the second char too. If you feel you can’t reach the meter, snap in the anchor and wound/kill them instead.

I actually had a list of XF1 combos that X-23 could use for optimal meter gain. 3 problems. 1) It’s over at another site and that site’s shut down, 2) I can’t remember the combos lol and 3), they’re not after Silent Kill. I know Jaytoo posted an XF1 jump loop after an air throw or Silent Kill, and I think that’s probably got the best meter gain.

I wanna post more, but I’ve gotta eat lol. BTW, this board is awesome, and I’m not being sarcastic.

1234

**On JS: ** Even if they’re up there being annoying, it’s not like JS forces gives you a full combo. I feel like it makes things worse since they get to call an assist after they’ve teched to cover them on the way down and the JS damage is pretty negligible IMO since you still have to call it in an area that the sj angled zoners want you to be in.

Log can hit the bottom edge of SJ height, spawns right on top of them if you’ve dashed under them (tho I would prefer to use RB if I’m under them), has enough durability to eat a full hand of finger lasers with some to spare, hits 3/4 of the screen at ground level and 1/2 of the screen at sj height, gives a full combo on hit anywhere on the screen, is one of the best mobility-mixup assists in the game (IMO), can be used to guarantee dirt naps, allows you to combo grounded dirt naps midscreen, works with HBDs, and works as a extender at any point?!?!

…Honorable mention, Ryuga? JS is top 5 and Log is an honorable mention? :stuck_out_tongue:

Past that, that’s why you need to have at least 1 character on your team to play that matchup. IM laughs at angled sj zoners and sj height foot dives and people playing lame give you all the chances in the world to hard tag for free.

**On meter gain post dirt-nap: ** It really isn’t that hard to get that meter back, you just have to have a relaunch assists so you don’t have to pop XF right after dirt nap (and you should always try to not have XF on when you dirt nap.) It also depends on whether they got themselves hit by RB (and I assume JS would give you the same issue) since it will scale your combos and limit your follow-ups. You still get to keep it pretty simple, though. I use:

RB guaranteed Dirt nap > otg + log > dash back (s.MH if they blocked RB, leave out otherwise) s.S > sj.LLMMHdHxxCS HxxTA L > land OTG XF s.S > HxCS HxxTA L > land OTG CS HxxTA H.

IIRC, that builds the meter and kills everyone from X-23 level health up to Doom health. On people higher than that you have to leave out the Ls/Ms to not scale the combo. The problem with the little guys is that they’ve already lost 2/3rds of their health just from dirt nap alone. I just went and checked out going straight into OTG > XF jump loops and that’s still way too much damage to build a meter off it. Like I said, tho, the 4 characters that are an issue are hardly played in 2nd position so it’s not a terrible thing to worry about anyways. Also, I think I looked into using TAC options and with IM and it wasn’t even build a meter before killing unless it was the meter from a down TAC.

PS:** @Ryuag**: M E R K Y L… You’ve been calling me Merkly forever, lol.

1235

We’ve all speculated that the first option is pretty much X23’s endgame in a nutshell now (TAC infinite, 2 dirt naps). That’s the only pure reason to have her on the team (besides us non-tier whores). If all things work well, the opponent doesn’t get to play. And sadly (or an interesting way of putting it), that’s mahvel at its best description. But, we need a practical infinite setup that we can utilize to unsure we don’t GIVE the opponent any opportunities to redeem themselves. As an X23 player, “second” chances are out the window. Once the player understands the matchup, good luck fishing for a hit. This is what I believe makes log so valuable because theoretically speaking it will always result into an X23 corner carry TAC setup on hit, and if they don’t break the exchange that could be the game right there depending on how much health is left available for 5 meters.

The second option is more risky, because we give the opponent more chances to live but depending on playstyle and team synergy it can be just as effective. Dark Anchors are a thing of the past, we are seeing more and more early XF burns simply to gain momentum and leave the player with virtually nothing to gain from having to depend on XF3 to bail them out. Some can still get the job done, like Vergil. We can either snap him in or fight off the dreaded XF3 Vergil with 3 characters to boot (bonus if we still have our XF). Simply put, I feel like if you aren’t running practical TAC character infinite setups for Laura you should always have good DHCs that stay on the screen long enough for unblockables. I guess that’s why people have been exploring a lot of X23/Dorm or X23/Trish lately.

1236

This is what I try to go for most of the time. I can alternatively kill the first character with a Strange TAC and Dirt Nap the second character, then try to mixup the third, but I think some of the more popular anchors are just too dangerous to let get X-Factor 3. If I had a more infinite-friendly secondary character I’d consider the first strategy, but I just love having Bolts too much and I don’t trust Strange on anchor. As for the dangerous point characters you mentioned, I think the only ones I’d consider changing my strategy over would be if I were up against a point Vergil or Skrull. Vergil goes without saying and Skrull is just too random to risk. I’m not particularly bothered by fighting an anchor Zero, Magneto, or Morrigan since I have Bolts and Cold Star to block off their approach.

After reading through everyone’s assists of choice I really have to wonder how good X-23 would be if she had Bolts for approach and Repulsor for everything else. The team would be mad unreliable if she died but she’d have everything she could possibly need.

1237

RB + FoF would probably beat out just about everything priority wise and I’m pretty sure the normal bolts beam bounce extension lets you TAC through to IM as long as you don’t max out the combo pre-SJ.

You could probably do THC combos similar to the SoV+Chaotic Flame setups or use it to get another rep of FoF loop. I can’t imaging IM wouldn’t like bolts and they might even let him combo off RBs and maybe unibeam Ls if the second bolt is slow enough. Not sure how much strange would get in extensions from RB, I’m sure he could make it work, but I don’t feel like it would be super optimal.

I don’t know about the ‘everything she could need’ part since there’s no double relaunch, you’d at least be able to use bolts for post-dirt nap pickups tho.

1238

Well you can’t OTG relaunch off of Bolts outside of Dirt Nap and air throws, but you can relaunch off of it by calling it before S and then Talon Diving them down into it. Damage isn’t quite the same but it’s still pretty high. My team’s BnB is

st.:m: -> st.:h: -> st.:h: -> st.:h: -> st.:h: -> :h: Mirage Feint -> j.:l: Crescent Scythe -> j.:l: Talon Dive -> st.:m: + Bolts of Balthaak Assist -> :s: -> j.:h: -> j.:l: Talon Dive -> They Land on Bolts -> :s: -> j.:h: -> j.:h: Crescent Scythe -> j.:l: Talon Dive -> OTG -> Rage Trigger.

It gets about 800k by itself and 950ish with a DHC into Vishanti. Does RB scale as much as Cold Star does? You could potentially get more reps out of it if it doesn’t.

1239

I’m pretty sure you can squeeze s.S+Bolts > sj.HxxCS LxxTA L in the beam bounce portion. Nothing amazing, but every little bit helps.

I feel like CS scales more but I’ve never bothered to actually check in the lab. I know it’s easy to get 1.1mil+ (and possible to get 1.2+ with Luis Loops) with double relaunches and Proton Cannon DHC. PC DHC gives no fscks about scaling since it’s so many hits, though.

With EoA, you can do some fun stuff in the corner like EoA+ [s.S sj.HxxTA L]x2 s.S sj.HxxCS HxxTA L all bouncing on the assist. Looks pretty badass, doesn’t do a ton of damage though, lol.

1240

I haven’t gone through the thread, so forgive me for posting teams that may have already been discussed.

I am in no ways a good player, but here is how I’ve been having fun with X-23:

Vergil - Judgement Cut
X-23 - Ankle Slice
Amaterasu - Cold Star

X-23 - Ankle Slice
Doom - Plasma or Missles
Doctor Strange - Eye Of Agamotto ***OR ***Vergil - Rapid Slash

Someone smarter than me should weigh in on how good/bad my teams are.
Cheers.