ok fuck shuma this hentai tentacle porn motherfucker is worthless…
Guess I’ll settle with x-23 (ankle)/Doom (Missiles)/Vergil (Slash) for a bit and see how it works.
Yeah, she’s actually decent in XF3 in ultimate. Her relaunch loop is really easy to pull off and fast enough that you can almost clear out a whole team if you land the next hits fast enough. I think she suffers from not having enough tools to open people up, but the MFxxTA and MFC def. help. I try to let Felicia have the xf3 when I can, but I’m not devastated is X-23 has to use it.
@EB: …Yeah…I can’t stand Shuma, lol. So many people around here try to go on about how he’s slept on and he’s a really good character…I just don’t see it.
nah this fucker is just whack, “slept on”… Lol the only good thing he has is the damn assist.
also, am i going crazy or is M fient xx L talon really weird in training mode and just doesnt wanna fuckin come out?
i’d get it like…twice in training mode but I never miss it in VS or any other mode… shit’s weird.
Is there any hope for anchor X-23 against keepaway?
EDIT: Actually, is there any hope for anchor X-23 in a real tournament setting?
Iron Fist has a very small hope versus keepaway and aerial keepaway.
X-23 has better tools than he does for it.
So, yes, but the pool isn’t that deep.
As far as in a tournament, I def. think she’s viable. One of the top players in the Alabama area has been playing X-23 since day 1 vanilla and he consistently finishes top 3 in tourneys in the SE and there’s tons of strong tourney matches in the video thread (Check out Tatsu, Traumatisch, DMBrandon, Wandles). Her only real weakness is keepaway (mainly just the people that lame it out in the top corner) but she still has the mobility to avoid almost anything and strong synergy with plenty of people that can play that match-up for her. The second issue is if you make a mistake that gets you hit she’s most likely gonna be dead. For the most part, there’s only been a small handful of X-23 players that were actually playing her for anything other than her DHC glitch potential in vanilla so I’d wager most people don’t even know what she’s really capable of. Outside of all of that though, she is a ton of fun to play and has enough tech to keep you busy for a while which I can’t say about some of the derp tier characters.
As far as X-23 on anchor, it’s definitely possible since she’s so fast but it can be hard to start pressure against certain characters. In XF3 she can convert off her air throws and almost any stray hit into Fast ToD infinites but you have to play smart and try to catch lame runaways on the way down from their keepaway. Against horizontal keepaway characters wall jump, crescent scythe, talon attack and falling claw gives you enough safe mobility to get in safely and avoid being predictable. What you’ll have trouble with is flight characters with really strong dive kick or falling attack options but you should almost always have time to dash out from under the attacks and go for a punish into her pressure game.
Yeah, I don’t think X-23 is weak against keepaway at all. Her main weakness is specifically not being able to approach characters that can just float around in superjump height and stay there (Trish and Morrigan being the obvious examples, Zero being another, to a certain extent).
Against more traditional keepaway characters, though (Tasky, Deadpool, Hawkeye, V.Joe), X-23 shouldn’t have too much trouble.
I think X-23’s tournament viable, but I believe she has bad MUs against the top tiers, and her being a low health groundbased character against those that have retarded normals/hang at superjump height/can zone her out/kill her easily and so on equals she’s really gotta be on form in terms of defence and avoiding bad situations. A lot these chars get commonly used in tournaments too.There’s not much room for error.
And unless you’re willing to use a good majority of her advanced techniques, you’re most likely going to have issues down the road. To non-X-23 players, it’s basically “I’m just gonna pick Wolverine, he does everything she does but better and has more health” lol.
Ideal team constructions for X-23 are stringent IMO, depending on what you want to achieve. There’s no real team set-up that’ll cover everything X-23 needs and have total synergy, though I think X-23/Taskmaster/Ammy might come close.
I don’t think X-23’s a good anchor personally. I know people’ve been blowing others up with her in that position, but I think a part of their success’s down to people generally being unfamiliar with the MU and not staying at superjump height/not punishing naked M Talons/not punishing blatant unsafe stuff. If she gets going, yeah, she can wreck, but I don’t have a lot of faith in X-23’s offence assistless.
Against those characters, she really has to take opportunities and pin the opponent on the ground when they eventually land. The typical H MFC, instant Falling Claw trap makes wonders here as they can’t jump out of that.
In my opinion, X-23’s worst matchups are against characters with fast attacks with huge hitboxes, like Dante, Vergil, Wolverine and Shield Skills-happy Taskmasters. One mistake and either your offense goes to shit or X-23 dies altogether. I feel like she’s forced to use L TA almost exclusively against those characters, it’s the only dumb, unbeatable hitbox she has.
Exactly. X-23’s normals, while good and can be buffed with MFCing, aren’t exactly walls of hitboxes, and can’t compete with the likes of Dante(from afar), Vergil, Taskmaster, Zero especially, and so on. And one random, lucky hit’s all it takes from those chars to either be dead, or be in a really bad situation setting up for her death. She really needs assists to get in there and basically, get them before they get her, or put out high priority hitboxes, which come from carefully aimed/assisted Talons and Neck Slices.
I definitely don’t doubt that she is very viable in general, but what I meant was that I’m not sure how viable she is as an anchor. I guess it’s a last resort thing then.
Thanks for the super detailed breakdown! All I knew was that she was a faster, less damaging Wolverine with a good air game… thanks for helping me see the light!
As for my team, what do you think about X-23 [Crescent Slash], Super Skrull [Orbital Grudge], Amaterasu [Cold Star]? I’m tempted to replace Skrull with Magneto (but not Doom, he’s boring)… is that a good idea? Is the team good in general even without that change?
I’m not sure how much orbital grudge does for X-23s game. It works, but there’s better options IMO. Tenderizer is decent for incoming setups but cold star covers that pretty well at the same time so there’s no reason to double up. Stone dunk can offer some combo extension with X-23 but I don’t think it will do much for neutral game since it starts up so slow. Skrull/ammy has some decent stuff but the short range on cold star doesn’t help as much as some of the slower hori assists do but Skrull would give you a good DHC. There’s still some nice stuff in the game if you DHC from WXP>veil of mist where you can either hard tag back to X-23 for more combo or do some sword form combo with ammy so it might be worth having her 2nd if you find you like that stuff. If you play X-23 second, she can abuse XF2 for pretty easy ToDs, use CS as an invincible counter and it’s easier to get silent kill setups since she doesn’t have to battery for herself.
Since you have such a strong lockdown with ammy I would go for someone that can really capitalize on that. Mag has the quick hi-low game and EMD is really good in general, but it’s hard to combo off of it with outside of close range with X-23 which is kinda what you’ll be using cold star for so it kinda doubles up there too. IMO you would either want a strong hori. assist or a good vertical assist to round out the team. You could probably run a decent mags/X23/ammy though.
My thoughts on alternate 3rds for X23/ammy teams:
X23(CS or ankle slice)/Doom(Beam or Missiles)/Ammy(Cold Star) and watch some marlinpie vids for the doom/ammy synergy. I know you said no doom but X-23 and Ammy can be technical enough to make it worth having a little derp on the team. Plus, I don’t think there’s a match-up in this game that can’t be dealt with by this team in one form or another.
X23(CS or ankle slice, but AS might have a slight leg up if you get good at using it for hi-lows)/Tasky(Hori Arrows)/Ammy(Cold Star). This gives you a good DHC with vert. legion arrows, a strong assist for getting in, and tasky can use cold star for corner unblockables with sword master and he has a passable hi/low game. This team would also work fine as Tasky/X23/Ammy.
Dante(jam Session)/X23(ankle slice)/Ammy(cold star) would have absolutely retarded corner game and strong DHCs. Dante might not be super impressive on the damage-front without some real work, but he still batteries rediculously well and I’m pretty sure he can still use ankle slice for combo extension. You could probably even manage some useless swaggy combos where you combo with Dante and end with DT > Silent Kill and make it combo. (I kinda wanna see if I can manage that now…>.>…<.<)
You can also sub in Vergil in the setup Merkyl gave you in the last paragraph for some easier/more damaging combo potential.
But then you’re looking at three meters to kill your entire team… basically.
I’ve been working on my X-23 lately (played her in vanilla for that sexy glitch) and find I just like the character. What do you X-23 vets think about X-23(Ankle Slicer)/Trish(Low Voltage)/Wesker(Samurai Edge)? My strat for the team is to rushdown early and try for a ToD on first character (pretty easy with Trish being 2nd) then building meter (again pretty easy since a ToD includes me DHC’ing into Trish who just runs away) and waiting patiently for meter gain. Once I get ~2 bars I start looking for a hit with Trish, which if I land I can go into a meaty round harvest setup into X-23/Wesker unblockable to kill and then a dirt nap ToD for kill number 2. Pretty gimmicky but it’s been doing well.
I very rarely use XF other than a Dirt Nap setup, as having lvl 4 Wesker anchor is just too good.
Overall, I find this team does phenomenal if X-23 can kill the first character with a DHC into Trish, this sets the pace for the rest of the match (also Trish is one of my strongest characters). However, if X-23 doesn’t do much and I have to switch into Trish without doing major damage, blowing the levels and XF for a kill on their 2nd character isn’t always worth it (unless they blew their XF already), ESPECIALLY if they have a strong anchor. Even worse if X-23 dies (which is likely in bad match ups due to sub par life) then I usually have to make a Wesker comback (lvl 4 too good) as Trish without the life lead and no lock down assist can be turtled like no tomorrow.
Sounds pretty solid to me. One of the top players in the area plays Trish/Vergil/Wesker with pretty much the same gameplan and it’s some serious garbage to fight against (especially with my team :/.) The only thing I would say is if they don’t block the meaty round harvest X-23 would have a hard time converting that into much more damage since she wouldn’t be able to take them back down. Also, being able to set up the meaty unblockable on incoming is so much garbage, lol. Since you have wesker to relaunch for you I would save the XF and just burn through the extra meter and DHC to kill after landing a dirt nap. Might be worth trying running trish on point since you get a free 2 dead characters with X23 in xf2 on 95% of the cast.
How do you get a free 2 characters with XF2 X-23??
Dirt Nap + Follow up? That would still require you to land an additional hit, right?
Lvl 2 X-factor guard cancel into self-relaunch loop, dirt nap incoming character. You’ll usually have enough x-factor time leftover for another self-relaunch, or an assisted relaunch if you have the right assist. At this point, you should have enough meter to finish them off with a OTG xx Rage Trigger.
Ahh … XF gaurd cancel! I think my team works better saving XF for Wesker though, I only pop XF if I am killing their last character or I’m playing someone I know that has a 1 character crutch.
As long as you’ve practiced your assistless Silent Kill setups, it’s almost a guaranteed 2 dead characters. (Invincible air supers can get out of it, but if you do it right it’s a very small frame window anyways.) XF 4 wesker is nice but I don’t feel like he has enough tricks solo, if you’re good enough at running away he doesn’t have all that much he can do to force a mistake. 5 second ToDs are nice though. Even outside of that, there’s a decent amount of people that have started snapping wesker, so if he does die early for some reason it’s still something worth keeping in your back pocket.
Getting out of the “team building” topic, but yeah, if you’ve got the timing down, you should keep the option to pop XF2 on X-23 for a double kill.
Even if they have Sentinel - one of the things I love doing is baiting out the Hard Drive. Activate Dirt Nap and dash to the opposite corner (you’ll be invisible, so they can’t tell). Plink dash back as Sent is flying over you, and hit him on recovery. The window for the punish is actually pretty wide as long as you didn’t mess up the dashes.
Even if you don’t manage to chase him down as he’s recovering, you can still activate it while he’s blocking, obviously. Sent doesn’t have any moves fast enough to stop it.
If you’re feeling less confident in your plink dashing, you can try jumping to intentionally block HD, and keep pushblocking to let Sent bring you to the corner with him. Considering you can’t see yourself, nor be sure exactly when he’s gonna activate, this method is a little less consistent. It’ll also result with your back to the corner as opposed to Sent in the corner.