Can’t really say much on it cuz I barely know what Nova does on point or can really tell how his assists could affect X-23. He’ll probably work as a nice follow up for X-23’s supers. His red health power up could prove to have some interesting traits also. Doom is too cool to not have with you at the pool so fo sho on him.
I have Doom on all my teams (beam with x-23/Dante, Missiles with Spencer/Zero), but 9 months in and I still suck ass with him if I’m left with only him in the end… with or without XF its usually game over for me and i only win after that if i get super lucky…
which is why i cant wait for Ultimate honestly. This stupid fucker doesnt fit my style at all and he’s basically as useless as Hsien-Ko in my hands but his assists are sooooo GOOD and I’m so used to them already so I’m not gonna try and switch now -__-; seriously though fuck Doom, i cant wait to replace him and never use him ever again.
Nova is better equipped in handling the role of leadoff so I like Nova/Laura/Doom. Nova has many otg moves, overheads, and setups with his airdash that you’ll only be calling X23 for unblockables I would imagine. Laura traditionally gets placed in her natural position, still gains mixup potential with a beam assist, and options to XF2. By the time Laura gets in Nova would provide her with enough meter to setup a silent kill
You bring up a lot of good points Ephidel. Especially with the removal of the DHC trick, I can definitely see having her in the 2nd spot.
Sorry to hear about your Doom trouble Eternal, he does seem to have one heck of a learning curve. I’ve only been playing him for about a week so he’s definitely just an assist character for me at this point, but I do really enjoy his combos and the way he moves around and everything, I just enjoy the character in general. Definitely going to spend a lot of hours grinding it out with Doom to hopefully bring him beyond that assist character status, but we’ll see what happens. x]
ROFL. It’s good to know when a character doesn’t fit your play style. Doom’s main issue is that he has a game based around zoning that isn’t as good as other characters that can zone. Which means using him as anchor you basically have to fish for XF3 TOD’s and can’t really be too scary otherwise. His buffs are gonna help him be scary before the XF now that his foot dive causes ground bounce and his j.H lazer gun actually comes out at more than 5 miles an hour. I love his dashing through advance guard style gameplay and his beam assist is so good for both Dante and 23.
You might like Hawkeye as a solid replacement. Hopefully if he’s at least as decent of an anchor as Tasky you shouldn’t have too much problem. I’m kinda scared Hawkeye will end up being a better Doom as far as horizontal projectile assists go but we’ll see how it plays out. Doom’s beam assist was hella durable and bullied around a lot of other assists and point projectiles like drones and disruptah but hawkeye may be the one bullying doom assist around in Ultiamate. Akuma assist fucked up my beam assist but luckily he already had to be in close range for that to happen.
I wouldn’t say his game is based around zoning. All his zoning is pretty much just a minor phase before he can start his rush/counter-poke game. But this is a matter for the Doom forums.
Why don’t you put him at second? Sphere Flame is a powerful DHC for X-23 and Doom with any assist works a lot better since foot dives become safer. That’s good even just for slowly pushing people into the corner.
And that’s another thing about the X-23/Doom synergy. Not only does her assist creates easy unblockables with foot dives (or during dash canceled strings), but X-23 has damn good wall carry. Rage Trigger alone goes nearly from one side to the other. And in my opinion, in the corner is where Doom wants to be, he can pretty much OCV people off of crouching LH block confirm into dash cancel into tri jump mixups and no upback will save anyone because suddenly his forward throw can kill people.
I always found Doom an easy character with a slightly awkward midscreen BnB, but I guess it might not be the same for everyone.
So yeah, personally, the X-23/Doom pair works somewhat like: if X-23 can’t run her rape train, just leave it to Doom to do it in the corner.
Well I’m just trying to say like you said that he can’t start his offense without using the zone first to set it up. Now that his projectiles are all better he wont get shot down and air thrown all day trying to start stuff.
my answer to not learning Doom was Iron Man sometime back, but then I realized that IM in XF3 just wasn’t as silly as Doom in XF3. I got discourage in using doom because I would always drop his bnbs, and I didn’t want to use a character simply to utilize his assist. I spent the last few weeks before ultimate to learn lab doom all day and I feel comfortable using him now. I just feel Doom even without XF can handle a majority of the cast with his all around game, which is why I almost always burn XF2 on laura. Also, XF DHC sphere flames is sooo good taking out a character if you aren’t positioned for a silent kill.
Yeah I’m really glad I stuck with Doom cuz he has a lot of technology to him that still needs to get figured out and I just figured from Marvel 2 that his assists would prove to be solid screen clearance for whatever point characters I use. In the strategy guide they specifically tell you that he’s a character that can play any role and it’s really starting to show. He has anchor worthy assists but isn’t a sitting duck Haggar if he has to come out and fight either and you can make point based teams around him also. Unlike Haggar he’s also actually a legit problem when he’s running around in XF3 and like said…you’re probably still better off just running XF2 X-23 with assist.
He just does a little bit of everything when it comes to rushdown and zone and his zoning is getting buffed in ultimate since it was rather lacking compared to magneto in start up speed.
@ Moonless, in general there’s no reason not to discuss other character’s gameplay in the X-23 thread because it’s a LEGIT ISSUE. You want to worry about the point value of the other characters on X-23’s team because no one character ever wins in this game. People treat this game too much like SFIV and focus too much on individual characters. That’s a lot of the reason why X-23 didn’t really get put together as quickly as other characters because people just wanted to know which characters were good when you pressed on buttons (cuz that’s what one on one fighters are basically about) and didn’t worry about what happens when you put together assists with their point tools, DHC synergy or how the characters could generally tie in with her. This is a game where you have to be aware of how other characters work cuz you never know when you may find that a character works well for your favorite point character.
It’s the team that wins and those things matter. People like Akuma a lot because his point game is really strong even though his assist is strong. People like Haggar because even though his point game is garbage they don’t have to deal with mix ups etc. X-23 is a very assist reliant character any way so it’s even more important to discuss what other characters do and how it relates to how she fits in the team overall.
X-23 literally taught me how to play the game and she taught me you have to play characters (not just a character) and combine them with assists to maximize your game. If it wasn’t for X-23 I’d probably just be picking up some easy mode Wesker team with Akuma assist still. I tried using Akuma but I just didn’t like his assist and he felt too easy and durp to use on point. I went back to doom beam and and doom’s point play and just couldn’t go back. I love the way Doom plays and how he makes my team pretty much all technical, mix up heavy characters down the line like my play style any way. I really like how all 3 characters completely fit my style of play and I guess that was the only way it was gonna work.
We definitely gotta keep each other up on what we do and how we play all of our characters because that’s what keeps X-23 winning matches to begin with. If we neglect the other characters then we neglect the purpose of X-23 also. She isn’t going to win unless her teammates are doing work also. She’s rather reliant on at least one teammate or preferably 2 to really get things going. If you also play Dante and have an opinion on how things work with her and X-23…bring that up. If you also play Doom…bring that up. If you play Ammy and notice how some things work with her…bring that up. It helps everybody else learn how other characters work without studying up forums and playing them themselves and gives more potential to X-23 as a whole.
This is a thread where we discuss how all the other characters make X-23 a better character and how they can back her up when she’s on point or after she dies. It’s Marvel and sometimes things happen and X-23 just isn’t on the screen anymore so you gotta have backup for when that happens.
I know it’s a bit premature to be thinking about Ultimate teams, but I really want to try making X-23/Strange/Nova work. Strange has that Bolts assist for M feints and Nova has Gravimetric Pulse for H feints. My only worry is that since most of the cast can duck Bolts it might not be that effective.
I’m still using Task with X-23. Main thing I like about him is on point he’s a very solid character, unblockable set ups with ankle slice, and doing combos with him can easily DHC into Weapon X. Biggest problem I have is his assist doesn’t lock down, but it does help against other projectiles. It’s a lot harder to do mixups than with Doom, IM, or Sent assist. He also doesn’t do the standard DHC set up like Dante, Dorm, Ammy do. The only way I get it to work is the TAC way. I guess it’s not that important now that UMvC3 is coming out.
Any advice on this duo?
I’m using Strange on my team new people Vergil/Strange/Strider and I’m most likely going to be using discs as my assist for Vergil starting. People are worried about Vergil’s lack of air utility and meter dependancy but I’m going to see if I can make him like Dorm and make him work without those things and have him build meter for the others.
I would say bolts assist would be good for lame out characters since it will force rushdown characters to crouch while you can chip them down. If anything I would say discs or agomotto would be better for X-23 feint games since those will hit crouching people. Discs being a great assist that they can’t runaway from for the M feints and agomotto should be great for the H feints.
Kinda hard to give you exact advice on anything. X-23’s assists aren’t really going to do a lot for Task’s offense since a lot of it is advance guarded easily without a lockdown assist. X-23 will definitely need some solid assists backing her so it really depends on what your entire team consists of for me to give any advice.
Yeah, Agamotto would work really well for H Feints, but it’d kind of do the same thing that I’m using Gravimetric Pulse for. Discs though…That could end up being really good, it tracks them wherever they go, right? That could double as a way to stop characters from running away from Laura as well M Feints.
I have 2 teams involving X-23: Mag/X-23/Task and X-23/Task/Dorm
With the first one, it’s more Magneto’s game. Rushdown against certain matchups, or keep away with disruptor/arrows when I go against people who can rush down better than I can. Try to do high/low with X-23 when approriate. When the opportunity arises, I’ll combo into magnetic tempest, DHC into Weapon X Prime, then DHC glitch into Task. Something I like about this team is that I can use X-23’s ankle slice assist twice this way - once to combo into hyper grav --> tempest, then again when I DHC into Task because X-23 switches slots. I know I can combo after Task’s counter super solo, but it’s definitely easier using an OTG assist. I don’t do this all the time though, just on certain characters I have trouble against (notably Wesker and Dante). It’s rare to need all 3 meters to kill a character unless I get them in a combo when they have full/almost full health.
Second team is more DHC glitch-centric. Dorm sets it up pretty well. Problem with this team is I have trouble getting in sometimes, especially when facing a keep away team. First team is better handling that since Mag can throw projectiles too and he has better air mobility.
But with both teams, I don’t think the assists really help out X-23 when she’s on point. It’s really reliant on Task’s arrows for coverage. I don’t really use Mag’s disruptor as an assist because I’m paranoid he’ll die by random hits. Task can take hits a little better and since I use Magneto on point, he’s usually half health or less when I tag him out.
I been using Doom since day one and can’t believe people can’t play him properly. I always felt cheap because I sometimes feel he’s too good because I can easily make huge comebacks with XF3 Doom so I am completely shocked to hear other X-23 players having such a hard time.
Makes me feel alot better about winning with him and I guess proves that not everyone knows how to zone properly. I thought Doom was like water and flows with everything but I guess not. Anyway I always used X-23/Trish/Doom and had pretty good success with it thank to Doom missile locking enemies in place and either peek-a-boo or low voltage assist for Trish.
I know it’s not the optimal Laura team but I like all those characters and they work well enough to earn me 77% win percentage which is way better than I thought I would do because I normally suck with reset characters. Everyone better get use to Doom players like me who are great at zoning because your gonna see alot of wannabe Doom’s in ultimate.
I was thinking disc would be more useful for X23 also, my only issue with them is that if Strange gets hit they instantly disappear. On paper Strange’s beam assist looks good for X23, but it seems to have some durability issues upon further glance and as we point out can be crouched. I don’t think I will be taking it over Hawkeye’s QSG which comes out more faster.
I like the idea of X23 always being in front of Taskmaster, this fully utilizes the synergy between both. If Taskmaster dies at point, X23 will struggle at second without a projectile to compliment her feints/mixup game. You have options for DHC glitch or XF2 X23 which I would recommend over XF3 Taskmaster (XF3 Taskmaster can still get the job done but gets lamed out easily). Even in Ultimate, I would follow this format with a solid leadoff.
I don’t think the problem was ever with Doom’s zoning. As James Chen once said, Doom is like the new MvC2 Sentinel once you learn his manuever patterns. When I first played Doom he felt really slow, my rushdown game with him felt impossible to achieve. Once you learn how to rushdown with Doom that’s when he becomes really ridiculous and you won’t need to feel like you have to XF3 just for the speed boost.
Yeah Discs of Denak will be nice for X-23 because the projectile will hit the opponent no matter where they go. Which means they can’t chicken block out of your M feint+assist mix up. Long as you go behind them during the feint they’re in a mix up.
Yeah… A few months ago I was always complaining how Doom couldn’t be more than a mid tier, how there was an easy way to defend against him, but the truth is I do beat people with him. And the more confidence I got on his stuff, whether or not people know the way to defend against him, the better I fared with him. I worked hard on my tri jumping, stop considering long foot dives as scrubby and realized that fishing for an airthrow in the corner with him cheap as hell. And I can’t even do that fullscreen quick empty tri jumping for movement thing, I’ve got crap rhythm. Although it helps to have a certain other cheap as hell assist to make everything safe.
In a related note, although I really liked my team as it worked with anyone on point and had plenty of tricks, I might have to drop Tron for the assist nerf (after all, it WAS the reason she was in the team in the first place). The assist has more to it than invincibility, it was fast, hit people on the ground but also had somewhat of a nice vertical hitbox and it was fairly safe on block (at least I think it is, correct me if I’m wrong). It didn’t allow those cheap as hell setups X-23 can have but I would much rather have an assist to use regularly than one to use in very certain situations. I pretty much call her when I want and improvise. So, the question is, is there anything else fast, big and safe like that that you guys can suggest? Besides Akuma.
Nothing like that outside of Haggar for right now (not anything that’ll help X-23 any way). Most of the other assists require you more…think before you throw them basically. The top tier assists are all the ones that do the thinking for you but Akuma is a safe bet with the only issue of not being invincible.
he can probably improvise. Nemesis slam assist has a ground bounce, comes out fairly quick, and suppose to have armor properties. Trish is getting some nice buffs and I like her peekaboo traps.
most of the assist that mattered in vanilla are catching nerfs. In X23’s case, most of the assist ideally to maximize her game (Dante, Doom, Ammy, etc.) will probably remain unchanged with the exception of a few new experiments from the new characters.