MvC3: I'm the Second Best at What I Do: The X-23 Team-Building Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
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Well I main Wesker so I can probably help with this a bit even though I haven’t really fought another Wesker with 23 yet. Basically you’ll want to know what Wesker is trying to do. Wesker can only really get in or hit you 2 ways unless you just sit there and let him wave dash up to you. Those two ways are through standing gun shot (which if it hits you out of the air will lead to combo) and teleport. Now…if I want to get near you with Wesker other than wave dashing towards you I have to either set it up with gun, gun/assist combo or teleport. He can teleport after he shoots any of his guns so that’s the main thing you want to worry about. Most Weskers are just going to L teleport after they shoot gun so they can get near you. Which if that’s what they want to do just jump backwards and air d+H talon dive on top of them and start a combo and gain pressure. His L teleport always goes the same distance forward relative to where he is so as long as you know that you’ll be fine. Once he commits to using the gun he can’t call an assist anymore so use that to figure out what strategy you wanna use also. This is why most Weskers will just use their assist then teleport or call the assist first, gun u then teleport.

The only other way he’s going to get in is by teleporting so its kinda on you to recognize when he’s going to teleport and which teleport he’s going to use. The only other way I can hit you as Wesker is by shooting my gun and if I do that from the air the most I’m going to get is chip damage unless you’re doing something stupid and on the ground you can easily crouch or wave dash under his gun. Which means if you start to just sit there and crouch or wave dash under my gun I’m going to have to teleport to get in. I could try to wave dash in and start a block string but if that string gets blocked I have to call assist and either re try that again and try to mix it up with command throw or just back away and try an easier get in through hoping you jump during my gun or do a H teleport and pray you dont see it and air throw.

Overall the best thing to do IMO against Wesker is just dont do a whole lot and wait for a situation to punish his L or H teleport. Wait for him to do stuff instead of trying to go after him. If you just sit there and crouch there’s not really much he can do except go in the air and gun which will only do chip damage at most and you can easily run away from. If they get frustrated with you running away and punishing their L teleports with jump back air d+H they’ll probably resort to using H teleport which acts like a slower version of Dante’s that puts them behind and above you (though it doesn’t actually track you like Dante’s either). If you can read that and air throw him or jump combo him out of that you pretty much force him to have to wave dash in and limit his options for getting in. The fact that it doesn’t actually track where you go like Dante’s means you can easily wave dash under it if you know he’s going for it also.

Wesker’s a pain if you just try and rush him down and that’s really the point of his play style. He’s an offensive character with the ability to evade offense and set up offense through defense and movement. That’s why he’s able to close the gap so quickly but at the same time if you know when he’s going to close the gap he can put himself in bad situations. You just have to play lame and force him to do a bad teleport or call a bad maximum wesker and waste meter. Which Maximum Wesker is easily beaten by a pre emptive air d+H or Talon Attack.

Last thing to remember is to just block if you’re in the air against Wesker. If Wesker shoots you out of something while you’re in the air you’re going to lose most of your life by a teleport cancel combo. Again…that’s why it’s best to stay on the ground where you can limit his gun play and then jump backwards when you feel he’s going to call an assist then teleport. If you’re crouching and he tries to to L teleport after to get close to you after shooting his gun you’ll be able to blow him up out of the recovery and hit him easily. The less you move the less he can move basically.

Sounds good to me. Remember you can also use X23’s Weapon X super to DHC into Trish’s Round Harvest super to get DHC reset and add more damage if u need to DHC into her.

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Great advice on Wesker, thanks DevilJin01

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Thank you very much Deviljin! I really needed that because I can’t stand him and yeah, I was try to go after Wesker constantly and couldn’t touch him, so I’ll definitely follow your advice and just wait for him to do something that I can take advantage of.

And I’m basically repeating what everyone’s already said, but if you have a team where X-23 can DHC trick as well as a good assist, it basically makes X-23 retarded, like really retarded. Suddenly you’re able to do like 1.mil off one random H poke cancelled with Mirage Feint S from mid-screen, was doing this to a friend and DHC’d into Hsien Ko’s corner loop and they were gone for good. Hit someone with one good loop and they’re surely going to lose a character depending on who you DHC with because her loop takes them all the way to the corner and gives you a bar. If you already had one bar to begin with, they’re gone. Game’s not all about combos, but this is too good to pass up lol.

In the future, I think Amaterasu and Wesker will be paired off with X-23 quite frequently.

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Thanks for the Normals break down Deviljin, now I gotta practice canceling moves with L feint, I thought all feint cancels were equal so I was just cancelling moves with whatever button I used to do the move.

I read somewhere on this forum that canceling her normals with L mirage feint grants a small amount of frame advantage, but when I try this vs the computer they always throw me out of it all day Lol, does anyone know if L mirage feint actually gives frame advantage? if not what is the use for it?

So from what you wrote up, from a neutral position with the enemy and me trying to get something started if I wavedash in I should poke with S.H>L mirage feint cancel for the frame advantage and if that hits do another S.H into whatever right? I’ll give that a shot, maybe I’m just bad with the spacing but a lot of times I dash up and do that and I seem to get hit out of it really often. And it sucks because it discourages me from trying to get in on the ground. Maybe I need to mix it up with dash in S.M because they are probably dashing up and meeting me with a normal that has a faster start up time than my S.H when I don’t space it correctly.

when your doing strings, and you get advancing guarded do you usually mirage feint M on reaction?

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Yeah I was realizing later on that s.H by itself gets beat by a lot of low attacks. You’re best off setting it up off of s.M first which is a ridiculously good poke for beating lows and will easily go into s.H after on block. If they are already in the air you can definitely just go for s.H an get an easy combo set up but if they’re on the ground I would definitely try to approach a bit closer with s.M, s.H first.

When I get advance guarded I usually L or M mirage feint depending on how close or far away I was. Use L if I was close and M if I’m farther away or sometimes I’ll purposely let them advance guard back a bit then do M feint to ambiguously cross them up. The one thing I probably haven’t tested L mirage feint against is throws so I’ll have to try that in training mode also.

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whoops wrong thread

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Currently my favorite team to play is X-23 on point with OTG assist. Hulk with his Anti Air Gamma Charge. It’s good for those get off of me moments. Thinking of changing it since I started mixing people up with a Gamma Wave and mirage faint after a KO. And Chun Li at anchor with her Lightning Legs Assist. She can let me mix up with faints and keep pressure on. Plus X can OTG for Chun Li to add Supers to the end of strings. If you can nail it even a LvL3 after a big Chun Li string and wreck people. Or you can use it to make Hulk an unblockable monster.

At any rate there are a few things here listed that I used to do and still do from time to time with them, and what I do now.

I can use her to set up massive damage and possible easy KOs against some of the rosters weaker characters where stamina is concerned at the start of a match in a matter of seconds. Very satisfying taking out Zero or Ammy in the first volley. You would basically catch someone with X’s bnb at the start with a few hops. I used to OTG into a Rage Trigger and DHC into a Gamma Crush. But that was before Lol. Granted if you can catch two characters and yes I have caught three, but just two in the bnb hop loop grants you enough meter to add in a Kikosho to catch them and wreck them early on. So if you catch two characters then the Rage Crush is worth it. But on one character for more damage you can DHC trick it.

For the DHC trick you just land your bnb then as you go for the ankle slice OTG you call in Chun Li. This way you can land Weapoon X Prime, DHC it late so you don’t cross yourself up into a Gamma Quake which in the end does close to 900,000 damage give or take depending on if I land the entire thing. If need be you could have Chun Li toss the Kikosho in and pretty much KO anyone, even pre patch Sentinel.

Best thing I can give to those picking up X-23 is to use your assists. Then make her so much better. Whenever possible when you OTG don’t drop Rage Trigger. Use your assissts to set up Weapon X Prime. It does much better damage and opens up DHC Trick options no matter what other team members you may be using.

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@ the wesker situation

I do most of what you said, but the one thing that frustrates me, and makes me lose is that even when I force him to come to me, he does his abcd blockstring and for some reason, even without assists, and even with Lauras amazing Jab, I cant punish it? is there some trick to it or something i should know about that?

also, this is going to be a very tall order but I play Joe, and I wanted to ask if anybody has or would be willing to look into possible ways to time his otg bomb assist into WXP. I dont have a system or else id do it myself…

also, i just had a thought, would it be possible to completely forego the entire launcher to super jump combo and just hit with the mirage loops and combo the L talon dive into WXP?

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X-23 can throw someone after the first hit of Akuma’s tatsu assist.

throw on its own is 120k, with Akuma tatsu assist it does 156k. it also seems to work on block, in which case you only get two hits out of the throw so it only does 100k but still lets you combo afterwards (unlike say, Sent drones which prevents a combo)

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His S is negative one on block so if he forces you into a string where you block it you have to just block it and deal with it. He gets pushed far away and has to spend time figuring a way to move in again so you can use that buy yourself time to do something. If you have at least level 2 XF and just want to get rid of him you can XF guard cancel the S and then just death combo him since he can’t cancel the S into anything. If he finds his way in its good have an assist called to back you up and possibly mirage feint M around him and start a combo or use tiger knee talon attack to crash down on top of one of his normals.

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I was thinking of learning trish and trying X-23(ankle slice), trish(peekaboo/pretty sure that’s the air grab one), Dr. Doom(hidden missiles)

Does this seem like a good team? I might go with plasma beam on doom though.

I might also try a combination of x-23(ankle slice), trish(peekaboo), tron(gustaff fire) just not sure who I should use on point.

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I think Trish goes well on pretty much any team haha. The first team is good, only weaknesses is that they can’t really make use of the DHC glitch, same with the second team sort of but Tron and Doom can oneshot people anyway so I suppose it doesn’t really matter. If you want to connect Weapon X Prime, I would recommend Trish’s Low Voltage, I’m not sure if Peekaboo(yup, it’s the air trap one) will work the same way.

Second team is good, if you decide to put Tron first, Ankle Slice will help Tron when she’s hitting with jump-ins as they could eat an unblockable. Maybe use Low Voltage if you want to use Tron on point to help give her a bit of cover. And in both teams, Trish’s Round Harvest can help set up unblockables as well.

My team of Dante/Trish/X-23 is going well, just need to learn how to use Dante more lol. Dante is very fun to use though, he has a lot of options. Though Trish’s Low Voltage helps set up Weapon X, Dante’s Jam Session is more reliable. If his Weasel Shot can help set-up for Weapon X as well, then I’ll probably put Trish on Peekaboo permanently.

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i literally just thought of a team X23 (ankle slice)/Thor(mighty smash)/Arthur(daggers) i think this team would work excellent together has anyone played a team like this?

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I run X-23 (ankle slice), Thor (Mighty Smash), Trish (Low voltage).

A similar team in the sense of Trish’s assist is ‘sorta’ like daggers.

I like it. I can OTG with x-23 on point whilst calling mighty smash, the bounce lets me combo into WXP… then I can DHC glitch into Thor (big damage obviously). Low voltage lets me hop around a bit easier with X-23. Mighty smash is also good as a cross over counter if you are stuck in a block string. Ankle slice also lets me set up nice high/low mixups with either Thor or Trish’s jumping attacks.

I maybe wish I had a really solid beam character, but you can’t have everything I guess.

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Yeah, Trish’s Peekaboo prevents the DHC glitch from occuring if used just before WXP.

If you just want to combo into WXP though, it’ll work but suffer from being character specific.

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well you can go with Thor’s Mighty Spark, while it is a poor man’s beam assist its still a beam =p
and you’ll still have Low Voltage to help you combo to WXP so you wont lose that part…

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Yeah Thor’s beam assist isn’t bad becuase it has good projectile durability and what not but it’s crouchable and the start up for it is atrociously long. Like longer than Sent drones. LOL. Normally beam assists like Doom’s are great for coming out quickly and covering up the screen and protecting you from damage but Thor’s Mighty Spark assist forces you to protect his beam before the beam can even come out. A strategy that is like totally counter productive to the normal using your beam assist to protect your point character. You have to instead make sure Thor can’t get hit with anything first then bring it out which doesn’t really do a good job to help you get in.

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aight a write-up about the team I’m using now…

X-23 (any assist)/Wesker (OTG)/Akuma (tatsu)

Aight so I was getting really close to writing off X-23 as not worth playing… why play her when you could use somebody like Magneto instead. I couldn’t find a team that really made her work, aside from the easy part (touch of death DHC glitch combos).

When I used drones, you have to deal with having your assist get completely shut down by beam characters or assists. Drones also don’t help you get past the other guy’s defenses in the first place, imo - it is really easy for someone to get around them because X-23 can’t do much to control superjumps. While you can run a pretty potent mixup once the drones are out, they screw up combos more often than not and there isn’t a great way to use drones together with the command grab. Also, Sent as a character… not so sure. Top class damage output for sure, but now a couple months on from the release of the game people seem to have a good handle on how to stop him from getting in. There is always issues with him getting counterpicked too… imo Sent loses to probably half the cast if not more when it comes down to one-on-one. Sent vs somebody w/assists backing them up is even worse, so I decided he was not as good as an anchor should be.

Next I tried out Doom beam and I did notice I won more with this team. The beam helps you get in, X-23 can still combo into touch of death off it, and it had much better combo utility for Wesker as well. Didn’t cover the command grab as well as I would have liked, but the beam did make it tricky to block because it covered a decent portion of the screen. Doom himself is really good, very capable of rushing people down and doing RIDICULOUS damage while he’s at it while also laming people out like there is no tomorrow. When the team was down to just Wesker/Doom no matter which order they were in I figured it was still a very powerful combination. I didn’t find him to be that great of a DHC from Wesker though, just because of how Maximum Wesker works… trying to get a sphere flame to connect for max damage after Wesker is kind of a crap shoot. I’m sure you could get it to 100% with some practice, but eh… the problem with Doom beam assist was that it didn’t cover your ass like drones did. If you tried something and it didn’t work, and you took too much of a risk, the beam was already gone and you had to wait a long time to call it again so you were goin to get smoked.

So the last variation was putting Akuma on anchor with his tatsu assist. For ppl that didn’t know (I’m sure this has gotta be common knowledge by now)… his tatsu assist is GODLIKE. Its almost Tron levels of cheapness, except it is better tailored to an X-23 team imo… once its active, it eats all low & medium priority projectiles, so that is everything except hyper combo beams and the like. It also has a ton of hitstun and blockstun on it, so you can keep someone pinned down for a long time to do crossup shenanigans, and it works great for both X-23 and Wesker combos. Pretty much you can call tatsu and then just go nuts for awhile. I figured out that there are some weird kind of early hitstun frames where you can still throw people with the command grab, and the tatsu lasts long enough that it will cover the command grab’s full whiffing animation, so that right there is great. The tatsu also has insanely high priority even vs. normal attacks… it has 46 straight active frames according to the guide, so even though it is hitting on alternating sides if somebody sticks something out Akuma will still pick them and launch them for an easy followup.

The max damage followup to tatsu is to jump up, go air-to-air with something like j.M j.H xx 236L or j.H xx 236L (add the j.M if they are too low to the ground) then s.M s.H xx 214H, j.M j.H xx 236L, s.M (1 hit) s.H s.S finisher. that still does mid 600s if you end with a DP super, which you can still set up with Wesker… also, with this team (unlike a drones or beam team) you can use Wesker to set up an unblockable and then still combo into Weapon X Prime DHC tricks by OTGing into the Akuma tatsu assist (anywhere on screen).

But anyway… back to Akuma. I think this guy is an incredible anchor. He only has 800k health so he is squishy, but he has one of the best, if not the outright best, hyper beams in the game on both the air and ground, so he can absolutely murder assists in a way an X-23/Wesker/Sent or Doom team can’t. His damage output is ridiculous… I’ve found an Akuma loop that will do 950k easy, unassisted no x-factor, and it builds the two bars it needs for the double hyper finisher. His beam is so fast you can throw out random air and ground hados and easily hit confirm into beam XFC beam to kill a character even from full screen… it doesn’t do as much chip as shinku hadouken but its still not bad. His tatsu is just as godly when he is on point… if somebody calls something like Sent drones to cover themselves, you can just throw out a tatsu. It’ll eat the drones, beat their attack, and then launch them for a full air combo followup afterwards… so Akuma on point basically hard counters most types of projectile zoning.

Not done yet with this cheap bastard though… he has crazy amounts of invulnerability on his normal shoryukens, and you can make them safe by canceling into his multi-fireball super (qcf+two buttons, don’t hold H) which is totally unpunishable. And it combos if the shoryu did actually land, so you have a SSF4 style “if you press a button I get big damage” style mixup to use. If you do a H shoryu during a lvl3 hyper freeze, there is a distinct possibility you will beat their hyper or sometimes trade. If they try to x-factor guard cancel you, shoryu xx super to avoid it… but his damage output is crazy. It is really pissing me off how many people I see playing Akuma just for his assist who are totally helpless with him on point, when he is SUCH A GOOD CHARACTER. Easily top 5 in the game imo.

His mixup isn’t as good as a airdash chars but he can cover himself with super jump air hados into ground combos that’ll one touch practically anyone… he can almost always get two hypers in a combo, hit confirms out of his f+M overhead… demon flip can shoot hados, and will autocorrect if you go over their head… he can cross up in the corner… OTG for himself… can combo off all his normal throws except maybe ground forward throw… OS roundhouse air tatsu to throw/block/get huge frame advantage… etc.

so yeah anyway. That’s my new team. I think its top tier :lol:

tldr: didn’t think drones or beam is the answer with X-23 (tatsu is!). Akuma is extremely powerful on point and adds a lot of value to both X-23 and Wesker’s gameplans.

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I was thinking about Akuma also because of how good the assist is. The only way you can beat Akuma assist is to like literally stuff it before it comes out like if they call it too early. Once it’s fully out it’s going to blow shit up. The ability to use it to still land weapon x prime after wesker OTG unblockable is pretty strong also. I’m trying to focus more on the left right cross up/frame trap game with X23 ATM since I still think its very strong especially with the s.H feint hold cancels and the L and M mirage feints to break through and cross up advance guard mashers.

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Akuma’s assist is so dumb it’s unbelievable. I’ve also been looking at him as well, been watching Saishuu’s combovids for the shotos and Akuma can actually do 1.mil by himself with 2 bars I think, it’s insane how much damage he can deal.

Oh yeah, Dante’s Weasel Shot can help X-23 land WXP anywhere so my Trish is free to swap around assists.