MvC3: Claws and a Bra. X-23 Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
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That’s cool. Yeah I always try to look at why I lost and not just the fact that I lost. I use my losses to figure out how to win. When I win it’s just a product of learning from the losses.

Overall though I’ve been doing a lot of theorizing with X23 and what she could become. It’s funny cuz when I first heard of the character selection I wanted to do a team of completely styled out characters with Viper/X23/Dante. The problem was I heard all 3 characters required high execution, Dante had apparently like 40 special moves, Viper’s execution was rumored to be harder than her SFIV execution and X23 I had no idea what she was about other than she had claws n shit but I knew she wasn’t going to be easy to use either. With that I kinda dropped all of them and went for a completely different team. Now that I acutally understand how the game works I’m leaning towards using a team of Viper/X23/Akuma (maybe Doom at the end but Akuma seems better overall). Viper is just looking to be a self sufficient monster that gets some extra help with assists but will eventually be a one man wrecking machine just like Magneto. C.Viper is looking to be an absolute monster in this game and far more self sufficient than people thought. Akuma actually gives Phoenix something to be afraid of and when more is figured out about him he seems like another self sufficient character and great anchor.

Now with X23 I’ve been looking at a lot of different things and aspects of her as she totally fits my play style and is probably the closest to what would be Ibuki in Marvel. Very mix up command dash based and reliant on tiger kneeing moves and what not. The thing about this game in general is that in order to survive you’ve gotta have cheap shit and I think a lot of people in general have been staying away from X23 because they dont think she’s cheap enough. Zero can spin around untouchable swords, Magneto can spam shit and build 2 meters off any damn throw, Viper…can do…anything like Kevin Garnett, it’s just hard to not wanna look at the other characters.

Lately I’ve been thinking about what is cheap about X23. Really all that I could think of that was cheap was the potential of her MFC game allowing her to get plus 6 and 12 on block on all her normals and easily go into damage off counter hits, her instant L talon attack which blows up pretty much any ground normal and allows you to easily bypass advance guard at close range, and the last thing that I can think of that’s like really cheap about X23 is Dirt Nap. Like other things about X23 are good especially with her ability to eventually set up command grabs nicely off of assist block strings but…maybe getting a command grab off of an assist block string is not really what I’d call cheap enough.

After going through it though…I realized she pretty much has the best level 3 in the game if you take into account all of the ways she can set it up. It’s actually a lot easier to set up now that I understand more about how to pair up assists with her. In order to make X23 cheap you definitely need a lock down assist and you definitely need meter for Dirt Nap. Once you get these two things you can pretty much just go in and if you put the person in a lockdown block string with an assist the dirt nap is guaranteed. Dirt Nap with a strong assist will basically turn X23 into a character that people wont even be able to block. If she forces you to block a normal…oh you just ate 400 damage and now she can dash up charged ankle slice turn on XF level 2 dead character.

This is pretty much the reason why X23 only really has like one move that directly goes through projectiles and generally has to get creative to get around them. It’s also why Wolverine is generally dirt easier to play. Once people figure out how to set up cheap shit like block strings into dirt nap…nobody is gonna want X23 in…at all. The best way to play the character I see ATM is put her preferably 2nd and build up meter for her dirt nap. You can do this just by doing combos with your point character until they die and have her come in or do something crafty like tag aerial combo into her so she gets the meter needed to get in do a combo and then be ready to one shot people on block strings. She can definitely fight by herself or without dirt nap but in order to make her cheap you have to have assists + dirt nap ready.

The team that I’m using right now X23/Wesker/Akuma is just a place holder team until the DHC glitch goes away. As long as the DHC glitch is in I can use that team to work on matchups with X23 until the glitch goes away. Once the glitch gets taken out I’m going for a team that brings out the cheapest part in X23 and that’s a team that can set her up to come in 2nd with dirt nap + lockdown assist so she can kill people just by making them block**. With the stuff I’ve already put on video you can probably already get an idea of how easy it is to set up but I’ll post some more videos up soon showing what’s most likely to come of the character in the future using the Dirt Nap.**

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So my main team is X-23/Thor/Trish.

But I was blowing up my friend too easily, so he made me switch to a random team. I ended up with Felicia, Modok, Hulk. This is against his Dealpool, Ryu and Doom, so you can imagine I had a lot of issues with the ranged game (say what you want about Modok, but on his own against that team he isn’t winning a fireball/zoning game.) I lost on the first day pretty hard, maybe 15-35? But I hammed up the hype just so when I did start beating him the saltiness could be made even more delicious. Which I did just now. Smack talking all the way. Glorious.

Anyway, onto the X-23 point. So I heard about some similarities between felicia and X-23, and I can now see what people are on about. What makes you stick with X-23 though? Better aerial movement? That was the one thing that felt terrible about Felicia. Movement on the ground was fine (and she has a ton of options to blow through AG, just like X-23) X-23 also has better range on her normals… but in terms of specials I think felicia might just have it. She can OTG more usefully that X-23, and that command grab dicks on X-23’s in terms of speed and danger.

But yeah… I think Felicia makes a nice alt for X-23 users. Try her out sometime guys.

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Yeah I’ve already been picking up Felicia on the side just because the mentalities are similar with both characters. My brother was maining Felicia in the back and I think she is one of the most dangerous level 3 XF characters in the game. If she gets near an opponent in level 3 XF it should pretty much be over. She has way too many ways to kill you once she gets on the inside.

The main reason I’m sticking with X23 right right now is easy mode setups for DHC glitch kills. When the glitch goes away what’s going to keep me with her is mainly just her familiar play style being an Ibuki main and how inescapable dirt nap block strings will make her cheap as hell.

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I hear you, its a bit depressing, but true that ‘cheap shit’ is the stuff that will eventually be the deciding factor.

For me, I like X-23 because of her movement options. Talon dives are great, just the ability to choose when and where I used them is gold. She frame traps pretty nicely even without MFCs, and plus I like blowing through AG. Her dashing is godlike.

I think if I were to throw felicia in the mix, I might need assists more specifically tailored to her. But if she gets you in the corner… I can see with someone decent using her it it would be hellish.

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LOL our technology seems to develop at roughly the same speed DevilJin. I had made an oath to never play Wolverine when the game came out because I can’t take pride in playing characters as braindead as that, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me… when I was messing around with him in training mode I was like “god damn this guy is cheap.” Buff normals, autopilot mixups, decent but not huge damage, and an uncanny ability to turn any random hit into a full combo with no effort… I had to wonder what X-23 had that was that cheap.

And yeah, Dirt Nap is it. 10stars has got it right by putting X-23 second on his team, with two good lockdown assists to set up her lvl3. If you land Dirt Nap in the corner (likely) you can do dash up s.L combos after, and hit confirm into loops so you can get 800k+ without having to burn your x-factor. They are difficult, but do-able, and even if you only had 3 bars in the first place you can build another one in case you want to end with Rage Trigger (reset) or Weapon X (more damage, guaranteed kills).

So to that end I’m running Wesker/X-23/Akuma right now and have been practicing my no-meter Wesker resets. Pretty much my go-to combo as him is LMH xx qcf+L, OTG, MH xx qcf+M, dash up launch, spike into corner, OTG into Akuma tatsu assist and then reset with a s.L. If they neutral or back tech, you either do air throw or a j.M j.H j.S / /\ j.M j.H j.S / s.L type series to punish their tech attempt. If they forward tech you can do dash back s.L as a sort of ambiguous cross under. Any successful reset leads into another one, and in all likelihood their character is dead after one bad guess. Done correctly, you should have a lot of meter to play with you finally bring X-23 in, either off an air tag (mo meter!) or when you have your dirt nap ready and they are about to bring out a character you don’t want to play.

That said though, I am debating trying out Magneto/X-23/Akuma. That team can’t DLC glitch and DLC chemistry between Mags and X-23 is only okay, but Magneto has crazy meter building abilities, is a godlike character to air tag to, and has a solid beam assist that you could use to set up Dirt Nap as well

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I mean I wouldn’t get too depressed about it. The good thing about this game is that everyone has cheap shit you just have to find it. The game being so high damage and everyone having cheap shit means that most all of the characters will stay competitive. The only issue is that because of that the game will consist of having to be aware of everything that’s going on and when the level of play gets high enough it will be hard for even a 2/3 set between two players to determine who really won. I remember top 8 at Final Round being 3/5 because 2/3 just doesn’t cut it with all of the cheesy things that can happen in this game.

Yeah if you’re going to play Felicia on point she either needs to be cracked out with assists or put her in the back for the deathly level 3 XF. IMO Felicia is basically a better X23 minus Dirt Nap. She has great normals herself, has a much more scary command grab without the need of assist or having to wait for someone to advance guard or any of that randomness, fast low to the ground wave dash to get under Wesker gun and other annoyances, a wall jump like move that allows her to jump full across the screen, a level 1 that sets up unblockables…shit is good. As of right now Felicia can even follow up the DHC glitch which gives her something to use in that department but X23 being able to start the glitch gives her a bit more power overall in that department. The only thing that I think will set X23 apart from her once the DHC glitch goes away is that X23 will have the cheapest level 3 in the game. Like super cheap.

Yeah when people stop getting lazy with X23 combos and just add in the extra filler to add up the damage she’ll really shine in damage output with the Dirt Nap. Wesker up first is always smart unless he gets DHC glitched at the start…LOL. I only put Wesker first against characters I have little matchup experience with using X23 and can’t start the DHC glitch (like Wolverine). Wesker vs. Magneto/Zero sucks because if Magneto touches your Wesker you most likely will lose Wesker and that’s a big character to lose early. If you’re just using him as a battery for X23 Dirt Nap though then I guess it could work providing you dont get one shotted.

Magneto/23/Akuma sounds solid. Magneto dies in one combo with or without DHC glitch for the most part but there’s a reason Magneto has that little health. He’s just hard as hell to land a solid hit on and has the tools to not get hit cleanly for a while. His throw game is beyond retarded with execution being able to build 2 plus meters on one throw. With that kind of power you can pretty much play Magneto in a way where all you have to do is try to land a combo or throw and build 2 meters and then from there just keep hitting/killing people until Magneto dies. Once that happens X23 is coming in with Dirt Nap ready to put people in block string to dirt nap with Akuma assist.

I see X23 working in a way where people are going to be looking at whether or not she has 3 meters like how people are trying to make sure they can kill Phoenix before she gets to 5. If X23 comes out on the screen with 3 meters the opponent pretty much will know that they have to hit and kill X23 before she forces them to block something or their character is dead.

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I know this is the wrong thread but I posted this in the team thread and got no responses.

I’m now running a team of Morrigan (dark harmonizer) Amaterasu (Cold Star) X-23 (ankle slicer) I swapped Hsien Ko for Ammy, I love cold star assist and I like being able to DHC into Ammys okami shuffle super from her finishing shower in the air, it’s hard to find supers that can DHC off that and I think it’s important to have, especially since all her good combos end in finishing shower.

This team seems versatile also, if I want I can run ammy on point using Morrigan meter building assist to build a bunch of meter then go to Morrigan and start using Astral vision or get X-23 in there. No need to really talk about cold star, it’s an amazing assist and I like having it for both X-23 and Morrigans offensive game.

What do you guys think?

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I dont see anything wrong with it immediately. I would personally prefer having Ammy first since she’s not really reliant on assist to mount an offense so Morrigan can just go around building meter for her. Morrigan on point isn’t bad but no one’s really cracked her out enough to make her worth using over Ammy on point who is looking top tier without everything about her even figured out yet. Once you get Ammy cracked out with meter you can decide whether you wanna keep Ammy in or tag combo/DHC whatever into Morrigan and get Morrigan in there. Morrigan will also be great for X23 because she will build meter for X23’s dirt nap and I’m sure you can create some block strings into Dirt Nap or catch someone coming in after a KO with a cold star lockdown into activate dirt nap kill the character.

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Tide, it’s a very low health team - you won’t hear that from DevilJin because he doesn’t seem to think it matters, but anyone who plays a low health team will tell you it is very annoying to deal with chip-heavy characters like Storm, Akuma, Ryu, Chris, Deadpool and Doom when you have low health characters. You need to make sure you get in and do what you want before you get chipped down too badly.

I’ve been slowly making better use of Amaterasu assist, mostly to set up Dirt Nap when I have the meter for it. It’s very nice, but I still hate how if you’re not at the perfect range Amaterasu can be attacked easily or crossed up with very little effort. It’s just a weird angle.

Dusting off the Dark Phoenix discussion here for a minute, since we’re on the topic of hoarding meter, one of the strategies I’ve been using against Phoenix teams that has paid off very well is to turn things around on them and make liberal use of team aerial combos to build meter. It helps to offset the meter you spend snapping her in, and if the opposing team gets five meters before you have a chance to kill Phoenix, then I usually have the meter i need to use Silent Kill or Divine Instruments or Shakedown Mixer, which are all very good ways to deal with a Dark Phoenix in your face. I’ve managed to pull off the “X-23 can control it” in some matches online and that’s very satisfying, usually I’ll get Phoenix down to low health, fish for a charged Neck Slice, and then cancel it into Dirt Nap as Phoenix transforms to land the unblockable. Against less careful Phoenix characters, you can XFC out of block stun into Ammy or Tron’s Lv3 if she tries to rush you down. And last night in a ranked match, I managed to put my back against the corner and chicken block Viscant’s Dark Phoenix for the full 20 seconds of Level 3 X-factor, and won out by reading a teleport and landing a random Okami Shuffle. Ammy was my last character with only magic pixel left, and Phoenix didn’t die but was down to her magic pixel too, and she recovered on the opposite side of the screen, used Phoenix Inferno at the EXACT moment that I used Okami Shuffle, and my Shuffle hit Phoenix before her fireball reached Ammy. It was one of the most hype endings to a match ever and I regret that I wasn’t recording it. But yeah, special thanks to DJ and the rest of the brain trust for all the Phoenix advice, it’s paying off.

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Yeah I dunno. I mean you could also switch two of your characters for Haggar and Hulk to back up Morrigan so they can take chip better when Storm comes out. Then again you basically just switched yourself over to characters to have a harder time even landing a hit on Storm. So it’s either take chip so you can turn on XF if it gets too bad and she has that much meter or pick characters that will have a harder time getting near Storm in the first place just so you take the chip better. I prefer just making the reads on Storm with a quicker character.

I guess from just constantly playing in tournaments with low health characters I know you just have to have a gameplan with that character and get over there to do it long before they have time to back you off. Some people pick different characters due to not really preferring that style of play but I feel as long as you have a gameplan the health doesn’t matter. If I lose I feel it’s because I didn’t get my gameplan into action quickly enough.

Good to see you’re fairing off better against the Phoenixes. It’s not like you can tell them to go away so you gotta get in and do what you gotta do to kill them. They force you to look at every single aspect of what they’re doing but Phoenix players also have to do the same thing because they dont have health to mess around either. People will argue that it’s a bit too easy for Phoenix to cover situations even for her low health but in the end if you go into a tournament against Phoenix you have to give her a fight and you have to remember that unless she turns on Healing Factor it’s literally one combo or random super and she’s done. Especially if your XF was already on at the time. The fact that she potentially turns a team into a 4 character team is pretty crazy but it’s still 2 characters that die to being breathed on.

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its also important to note that phoenix teams are usually not going to be one shotting your team because theyre so restricted on their bar.

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good Phoenix players will spend the bar when they need it. it is only really bad phoenix players who steadfastly refuse to spend meter…

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Hey sakeido, DevilJin, check your PMs.

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Yeah you can tell a good Phoenix when they’re not afraid to spend bar on point or spend bar with one of the slave characters to finish off or do more damage to the character. 5 bars is too easy to build to worry about spending one. Especially with how good Phoenix is as a character. Like when Phoenix players start getting the balls to burn one meter to turn on healing field you’re going to have to hit them with your biggest combo if you even find an opening to kill them and it’s likely they’ll get the 5 bars back because you took so long to kill them and then Dark Phoenix is out. That’s probably after they did more damage to you after escaping death.

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I’ve been a longtime lurker, but I guess I’ve got a good reason to post. I haven’t really been paying attention to the character forums as I’ve been trying hard to develop my own style in MvC3. I found some cool stuff that I’ve never seen other people using, including a couple of things with one of the characters in my main team, X-23. I think these are nice suggestions too:

L Talon Attack is great for characters that are coming in on point (as in after a snap back or after the last one dying), as its blockstun forces characters all the way to the ground, ready for some juicy mixup. It’s especially good in the corner, as it’ll “shave” the corner, making it very easy to time. If it hits, it’s a combo, if it is blocked, they have to go all the way to the ground, where the mixups are strongest, if it misses and they are caught sleeping, it’s a crossup. I never see people doing this, and I thought it’d be obvious, too. It also makes hitting her level 3 a whole lot easier.

Speaking of her level 3, along with Shuma’s, I suppose, I don’t really see people setting them up. Personally, I do it with an air Photon Array from my second team member, Doom. Since they are pretty much forced to block, I can just DHC into her level 3 and poke some eyeballs - not even invincible supers can solve this, as DHCing into X-23 is perfectly safe. I use Doom, but I assume there are many characters better for this, like Dormammu or Trish. This is all obvious, though. I haven’t seen people doing things like these, but I’m sure plenty have figured it out. It’s a bit embarassing, but this only ocurred to me last week, after months of playing.

And more recently, just today I found out something new. You can link a snap back from an OTG Ankle Slice, no assist or X-Factor needed (actually, I found this out when I messed up activating X-Factor but inputed the snap anyway). Timing is a bit strict for a person with bad execution like me, but I’m sure most people here can pull it off. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work on a bunch of characters, namely, most of the ladies (Ammy included) and VJ (but works on Arthur). I haven’t tested with all the characters yet, so this is still not fully fleshed out. Unfortunately, I was unable to combo after the snap (in case there’s just one character left) so I couldn’t get maximum style points. Regardless, it’s a good way to squeeze a snap back in case you suck at hit confirming for stuff like this, such as myself.

And actually I have a question because of the snap back thing: What’s the startup for snap backs? Being able to link one might imply being able to link other things.

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According to the ol’ marvel 3 bible, it is a one frame attack.

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thanks Jaytoo, i will try that xf combo out.

my team is x23/wolverine/insert random character with either OTG or stuck in the air assesst. :rofl: Akuma :badboy:. his synergy with wolvy is undeniable.

my plan: if i get 1 hit beginning of the round with x23 i loop combo which builds 1 full bar. so i end up with 2 bars. then i would use that meter i build in the same combo to call assesst then LETS ENDS THIS hyper into Wolverine DHC. then death

then i would keep Wolvy setup mix up with Akuma AND setting up unblockables with x23 Ancle Slicer. like >> dash call x23 jump S. then confirm into bnb. :rofl:

:rofl:

so round begins with x23+1bar stock combo of off any hit :rofl: build 2nd bar. hyper DHC glitch into wolvirne. guaranteed first character death.

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We should figure this out - I’ll see if I can pull it off and then try and come up with a list.

I think this has higher implications for X-23 without X-factor or suitable assists to continue a combo - it could come in handy in a clutch situation.

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I will edit this post as I continue to test…

Works on:

Arthur
Captain America
Chun-Li
Dante
Deadpool
Doctor Doom
Dormammu
Haggar
Hulk
Magneto
Sentinel
She-Hulk
Spencer
Spider-Man
Super Skrull
Taskmaster
Thor
Tron Bonne
Wesker

Doesn’t work on:
Akuma
Amaterasu
C. Viper
Chris
Felicia
Hsien-Ko
Iron Man
Jill
MODOK
Morrigan
Phoenix/Dark Phoenix
Ryu
Shuma-Gorath
Storm
Trish
Viewtiful Joe
Wolverine
X-23
Zero

There you have it, it works on exactly 1/2 the cast, the other 1/2 it doesn’t work on because their hitboxes are too short in air, or because they fall too quickly.

In other news, although the snapback comes out in 1 frame, X-23 has enough recovery on it that you cannot follow it up unless you X-Factor Cancel it (which as X-23 players we know doesn’t require a meter at all). So, use it only when you have no other option and have to land that snapback. :slight_smile:

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Ah, good stuff, MoFro. Thanks for doing the research.