as far as i know, a lot of that is still just rumors. no need to start speculating about what will happen when this gets put in or that gets taken out, its best to just focus on the character we have now and what we can do with her.
Can someone list laura’s pro’s and con’s can the list be non bias and legit please
Pros:
-Fast pokes that can have decent range
-very agile (2nd fastest walkspeed in the game, excellent dashes and command dashes, talon dives to maneuver mid-air)
-lots of ways around pushblock.
-can create excellent 50/50 mixups with proper assists
-godlike lvl3 super.
-can utilize the DHC trick to do touch of death combos.
-many ways to hit confirm into her combos
Cons:
-low health (~800k i think?) so she dies as soon as she’s put in a good combo =/
-damage output is on the low side, especially if you dont have someone that can utilize the DHC trick in your team.
-can have a hard time against some zoners as her only true way around projectiles is her Weapon X Prime Hyper.
-her air game really sucks and in a game like this having a great ground game doesnt really mean that much. against characters like Phoenix, Magneto, Storm, Thor etc who are in the air all the time she basically loses all of her momentum and tools.
there’s probably a few notes that can be added but thats all i can think of atm. if you want me to go into details about any of the points let me know.
She has 830,000 health. If you look in the brady guide where it lists everyone’s health, it says 880,000 I think. But in her section it says 830,000. After beating her up in training mode, 830,000 was extremely accurate.
I agree with most of your points. How is her damage output low? She doesn’t need assists to pull off combos in the 600,000+ range and she can infinite in level 2/3 x-factor with charged Neck Slices til the opponent dies. I feel she’s still solid without the use of the DHC glitch. Her Ms stop super armor and she has great instant overheads. I like that you can do a really simple combo while invincible in Derp Nap for the damage to get to 600,000+.
She doesn’t have great anti-air options outside her standing H. She’s quite assist dependent at her best. Thus she’s not the greatest anchor so is she’s best on point at the start of the match (though I will say like anyone, she’s pretty scary in level 3 x-factor considering the speed boost). She only has one useful assist that’s slow but powerful since it OTGs.
she gets 600+ where many of the high damage dudes can go around 800+, hence why i said its low. its not bad but its definitely low compared to the big guns. guess mid would be more appropriate?
I think at high level play X23 will end up being a character that’s more reliant on resets to do big damage than just outright going for big damage. My brother plays Captain America, Zero, Felicia and whenever he’s playing Felicia on point without X Factor he has access to a lot of damage by comboing into a level 3 and then OTGing off of that which can set up death combos on most of the cast. At the same time though he doesn’t always go that route cuz he would rather build up more meter by resetting people and killing them off the resets so he can have 5 bars. Which if his Felicia gets to 5 bars if he lands a level 3 on you he can pretty much ensure you will die. Even so much so that he can build up enough meter to level 3 you again (not that most characters have enough health to survive another level 3 any way).
Resets in this game usually involve anything that pops the opponent up in the air after a hit and forces them into a situation where they must guess between air throw or attack. The whole point of X23’s rage trigger level 1 super is it purposely sets up this situation. That’s why X23’s bnbs dont do enormous damage by themselves because her standard super combo puts the opponent in a situation where they have to guess or they get comboed or air thrown into combo again. Just like Felicia this will take her damage output on point from pretty decent to…pretty deadly.
Her anti air game is pretty solid IMO. s.M, j.M to bnb combo, forward air throw or charged neck slice (qcf+L hold L) are probably her best anti airs. s.H isn’t bad either because it has great range and you can cancel it no matter whether it makes contact or completely whiffs. Plus if its hits it sets up free bnb to rage tripper or weapon X DHC glitch starter. Only issue is at 9 frame start up you have to use a bit more prediction and definitely make sure to feint hold cancel it all the time so its safe on whiff or block.
In general people are sleeping on the anti air abilities of air throwing and jumping up and hitting people. All regular ground and air throws start up in one frame. All of the dumb shit that people like to do like mash on S with Sent in the air gets beat easily by a prediction jump forward to air forward throw. You’ll beat him in frames by a whole lot and get a free OTG combo. j.M is great for anti airing also because if it lands you can do a bnb into L talon attack (air qcf+L) which will bring you to the ground while your opponent is still in the air then you can land s.M into launch into rage trigger reset or Weapon X DHC glitch death. Her j.M is 6 frame start up with a solid horizontal hit box and the fact that you’re jumping means you can cover the vertical distance you need to anti air a lot of stuff. Her j.L is even faster at 4 frame start up its just a bit shorter on range.
Low health is only a con at lower levels of play. At higher levels of play people dont drop their combos as often, if the opponent has meter to blow you’re probably dead no matter how much health you have, DHC glitch ensures even big health characters like Wesker or She Hulk can die on first hit etc. The game is generally about dying in one hit so if you’re worried about the health of your character you dont really need to since you’re supposed to die when you get hit any way.
**I would say probably her biggest con is similar to the one that Felicia has **(I think X23 and Felicia are kinda similar any way) in that she doesn’t have any way to really zone the opponent. She has to base her whole play sytle on taking advantage of a bad zoning decision from her opponent. Unlike the other 2 characters on my team like Wesker or Doom she has no way of buying herself time by keeping people out and then setting up an offense. The best you can do is just have a good projectile assist backing her up so you can help clear a path for her to get in.
Once you get in whether you have assists or not you have a lot of ways to open people up. The more I play X23 the more I realize her opening people up has more to do with whether or not you know how to use her moves to beat advance guard and how strong your execution is. If you use her tools like her mirage feints, neck slice and decapitating slice to blow up advance guard you can really put pressure on people easily even without an assist. She only needs the assists IMO to clear the path for her to get in or to set up unblockables. Once she gets in she’s pretty self reliant in opening people up with her tools to break advance guard and H feint hold cancel block strings that are plus 12 on block.
**X23’s assists aren’t particularly awesome but I would say the best one is definitely the ankle slice. ** Not only does it OTG (which isn’t really a requirement for my team since the other 2 characters self OTG) but the fact that it hits low and covers a good bit of the screen space means you can easily set up unblockable situations with it. Like with Wesker I can just press on X23 ankle slice assist and do his H teleport which makes him go up and above the opponent then come down with S. Since the ankle slice assist has a bit of start up it works out easily since by the time Wesker is coming down on top of the opponent with an overhead teleport…X23 is crawling at them with the ankle slice and you get a free unblockable to combo. The opponent has to chicken block to get out of this or just frame block or they get hit. Wesker’s teleport also moves the camera away from X23’s assist so the opponent generally wont even be able to see that I’m putting them into an unblockable until they get hit by it.
Her ability to get around zoning is a bit troublesome but the one time you do get in that’s really all you need to win. Although she can’t fly or air dash she definitely has more tools to utilize in the air than say Felicia who has absolutely nothing in the air but the bare basics (air normals, air throw). X23 has a wall jump she can utilize off her normal jump which can be done even mid screen as long as you’re touching the corner to close the gap quickly on an opponent. It throws her towards the opponent quickly which gives you a good situation to then L talon attack or M talon attack to talon dive (air d+H) to get in. You can also just use the wall jump to get a bit of a distance in and then air throw if they try to go to the air or wave dash in once and force a counter hit situation to start a combo.
I do agree with the fact that people are sleeping on straight up just jumping up and attacking people in the air as an AA. Take Haggar’s Pipe for example, you can just straight-up jump and air jab him out of it and land a combo. At least with X-23 I was doing that anyway. A lot of the time, I forget to do this against other characters and get stomped on. Same with just air-throwing guys.
I’ve been looking at that tier list thread. I’m not seeing how people are ranking X-23 as C-tier, I really don’t. I also don’t see how Dr.Doom and Viper aren’t anything but A material at the absolute minimum(ESPECIALLY Dr.Doom) but whatever, what do I know lol?
Meh…people dont know anything about X23 and a lot dont have the technical ability to even play X23 at a high level of play. None of the players known for playing technical characters in SFIV like Clakey D or Flash are really picking her up and that’s limiting her growth in other people’s eyes. Nobody even knows what she can do and they just see her do day one shit and assume she’s just a character with sub par damage that will never get anywhere. If all I knew about X23 was the shit that people like Ten Stars and Jimmy P do in tourneys…I would assume she isn’t that great sure. With the stuff I and many of the others in the thread now know about her, all it’s going to take is a strong technical player picking her up and she’ll start getting the praises. Especially with the ability to kill on first touch via DHC reset.
NOTE: Not to knock Ten Stars or JimmyP on their overall game skills. They definitely show that with not displaying everything technically a character has to offer you can still make do with strong reads and just knowing what is coming at you.
Right now people are winning with whoever is the laziest and easiest to win with. People got jobs…they just got done spending a lot of time learning how to not get blown up by DPs and mash c.L’s in SFIV…they dont wanna spend time on this shit. LOL. People just dont have time for X23 when they see with less effort (almost none in some character’s cases) they can hit people and win by dropping combos and landing random shit again after dropping a 500k combo. That is the current level of play of MVC3 in a nutshell. Drop easy combo with easy good character…land something random…do it again they’re dead.
Any character that requires any remote technicality people are just going to not play or explore because it’s easy to win when you turn on your XF and do dumb shit and people drop their combos too much any way. Hardly anyone is exploring the DHC reset potential in this game and how a character like X23 with all of her options to hit people once she gets in and pretty much kill you on that hit can’t be high tier. Due to how she dosen’t have much of a zoning game it will require you to understand the ins and outs of a lot of matchups before you can successfully play her. Even with that though her Weapon X Prime super is easy to start DHC resets off of so you can use that to turn your DHC follow up character like Wesker into a 1 touch kill powerhouse utilizing the tag combo system.
X23, Felicia and Jill are all 3 characters that I believe are slept on due to the fact that you actually have to do something remotely reminiscent of what a top player would do or set up in a tournament to make them good. You can’t just dive kick and you can’t just disruptah and know some combos. They all have crazy reset/mix up potential, can get around the screen very quickly and are all capable of either starting or following up the DHC glitch.
I do respect Flash for picking up Jill though as I feel there’s a lot of potential in her being able to start the DHC glitch and she has crazy good normals and mix up potential also.
Wait…Flash as in
Flash Metroid?
sweet I’m a big fan of his and it’s cool that he’s playing Marvel.
Btw I’ve been messing around with some anti dark phoenix setups and was wondering how viable this strat is (I haven’t been able to test on human opponents and I don’t really know any Dark Phoenix frame data).
Any multihitting super that says out when the character DHC’s out (I’ve been using Zero’s Rekkoha). DHC into Sillent Kill (if you delay the DHC a little then you’ll still be invincible when her “Dark Phoenix Rises” hitbox comes out).
I guess what I’m asking is. How fast is Dark Phoenix’s teleport and does she have any invincible supers that she can use in the air? Rekkoha conveniently puts her in the air if anything but the first hit or so is what kills her so I don’t have to worry about her XFCing out of blockstun, but it’s all meaningless if she can just buffer a teleport after Dark Phoenix rises and get out.
Dark Phoenix’s only attack based super is mad invincible (invincible from frame 1-34) and she can use it in the air or ground. She can also cancel her fireballs on whiff into it so if she’s afraid you’re going to beam super her or attack her she can throw it out on anticipation. I do know that it’s pretty unsafe on block so most Phoenix’s wont just throw it out even though its invincible unless they have XF to XF cancel it.
Her teleports are all 10 frame start up and 20 frames of recovery. Meaning you get about half a second from when she dissapears to hit her. Which is why when I play D.Phoenix players I’m always looking for them to dissapear because that’s my cue to press buttons. I’m sure the frames change a bit when she’s in XF but that’s XF.
Seems like everybody is going Ankle Slice now, I remember when the game came out some people thought Crescent Scythe was better. That pro/con list looks accurate to me.
I actually dont think Crescent Scythe is that bad. I used it a bit with Dr.Doom’s heavy gun lazer to help push people towards the corner where he can easily kill people in one combo. It’s just being able to set up unblockables with ankle slice is too good to pass up.
I don’t if it’s just me but I have a hard time hitting her ankle slice after an air combo during online play. I hit it all the time offline, anybody else have this problem?
mvc3 online is absolute garbage, everyone and their mom should know this by now.
I remember trying to do FHC combos online one time and it literally was like trying to scratch a rash with sandpaper. Just too rough.
okay, I guess it’s not just me lol not being able to hit ankle slice into super after air combo is kinda huge:wasted: funny thing is that it seems like most people have no problem hitting OTG assist while i’m down:(
Just feel like throwing this out there… as I dunno if it has been thrown out there or not. I had a few matches where dealing with Akuma’s tatsu spam is tough. Only learned how to deal with it with one char on my team thanks to the “Akuma’s tatsu is broken” video, but it only covers Capcom chars (2/3 of my current team is Marvel). So I wanted to figure this out with X-23 and Hulk (sometimes I just throw people seeing it’s +1 on block and people want to follow up with Akuma’s c.L which has a 5 frame start-up). I already knew which aerial attacks work (talon dive L and D+H hitting Akuma on top) but while on the ground I came to 3 conclusions.
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s.H: A well timed, well spaced (at the tip of this attack) will either trade (X-23’s favor) or hit Akuma clean. If it’s spaced poorly, Akuma will win.
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Neck Slice: trades (I think X-23’s favor)
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Ankle Slice: hits Akuma’s tatsu clean. NEVER fully charge this attack on reaction even if Akuma tatsu’s from full screen because the tatsu will reach X-23 before Neck Slice becomes active.
And since almost everyone uses Ankle Slice as an assist, I can’t really imagine it would be a decent assist to counter a player using Tatsu assist… but who knows? I don’t like using squishy assists unless the opponent is in the middle of a combo.
And I think everyone knows the universal way to get out of it on block is to pushblock the 2nd/3rd hit and jump. Did not get to test this myself with X-23 yet but I’m certain she’s got some decent ways to punish it.
For the air tatsu there’s definitely a vulnerable hit box under Akuma’s tatsu. It’s hard to hit because of how big the attack hit box is but there’s definitely a box underneath him that’s susceptible to attacks. For the ground one i usually just pushblock and try to punish.
Anybody using Wesker should look into a 2nd assist that would let them combo after using Wesker to set up an unblockable… so deadly.
stand C + assist cancel into feint hop, air S is a pretty solid setup. Using Akuma tatsu assist and a max damage combo you can do 770k before DHCs.
Oh I see how that works. Basically you’re calling one assist to cover as a block string (Akuma) and lock down and then the other one (Wesker) sets up the unblockable. I like that set up.