Is it possible to use an assist to perhaps lock her in place?
Well if there was a way to make it so they assist wouldn’t get blown away it might work.
**Though yeah I went into training mode with it and set the dummy to all block and set it up off her command grab and they were able to block the super. **Ghey lol. You could maybe try to set up a 4 bar set up where you call a lockdown assist out and then maybe the assist will lock down the opponent long enough that you could then turn on dirt nap for a pretty much guaranteed kill but that would require like 4 meters. The dirt nap setup is actually pretty solid since it can’t be blocked but they can still teleport to mix it up a bit. Though if they teleport that’s kinda what you want any way because you will blow through the teleport recovery with the level 3.
Thinking about it though if she does block the weapon x super after you could always cancel into another safe chipping super to gurantee damage and if she were to try and teleport out you could most likely DHC on reaction and possibly stuff the recovery. If she just blocks most of the chip she would take would be negated by her XF turning on afterwards but if you actually hit her out of a teleport you could get some actual real damage in on her first. It’s very theory ATM I guess. Better than nothing though lol.
I guess the issue was I had the dummy on auto block but the auto block turns off after like a second period of the dummy not being touched by a physical attck. That long transition period makes the dummy stop blocking even though it can technically block. With all guard set up its obvious they can definitely block or teleport.
Overall though I’ve been trying to come up with a lot of strategies to beat D.Phoenix. Obviously the easiest strategy is to do the snap in shit but there’s no way you can rely on that and expect to win consistently against her. The one time a snap back strategy doesn’t work it’s stupid to assume that things just crumble afterwards but that’s the feeling a lot of people have. They feel once XF3 D.Phoenix gets on the screen there’s literally nothing you can do but I dont necessarily feel that way. I think the best thing to do if Phoenix gets 5 bars is kill her as quickly as possible (because you’re going to need the health and your characters to survive XF3 D.P). The running away from regular Phoenix strategy doesn’t work anymore unless there’s like 15 seconds left on the clock. Good regular Phoenixes will rush you down until you start giving away characters and then life is just easy for her.
I’m going to do a lot of testing in training mode against XF3 D.Phoenix and D.Phoenix in general and see what works. There’s some really nasty stuff she can do to you like trap to teleport cross ups that can kill your 3rd character that you need to have XF3 for to runaway from her fireball chip. If you can survive that though I think it’s definitely possible to lame it out then get her into a situation where she must burn the meter early.
So far I think the best strategy so far is if she does get the 5 bars and turns into D.Phoenix just fight her anyway. Most D.Phoenixes will usually raw tag their partner in but that’s fine. Hit their partner and snap her in. Dont even kill them just snap D.Phoenix in. D.Phoenix is not the scare factor that level 3 XF D.Phoenix is. That’s what people are dying too. D.Phoenix has the same slow start up and recovery on fireballs and teleports its just the fireballs are a bit bigger. The nice thing about this strategy also is that D.Phoenix loses health as soon as you whip her in so if you do bring her in he’ll have to immediately start burning meter on healing factor or purposely turn on XF level 2. Which if you can get him to turn on XF level 2 then you can turtle a bit wait to turn yours on then turtle out her XF level 2 and then have a slight time edge against her XF if you didn’t already land a random hit and kill her. If you lose a character and the next character comes in at least they’ll be shielded from chip coming in and she’ll most likely be on her way to losing the XF.
Another strategy that is solid is to sit on your XF and block and if you block anything and have a quick normal or super just XF guard cancel and kill her.
Well now that I realized she can block the set up I use with the assist where the super clashes through her activation I’ve decided instead to turn these death setups that dont really work into more so trap situations. It’s character specific though specifically for my team X23/Wesker/Doom
I realized that it’s easier to set up something where you can kill 5 bar regular Phoenix then with just a normal everyday combo with an assist pop up into Weapon X. When you kill her with the Weapon X as long as Wesker is next I can use his counter super afterwards. The strange thing about Wesker’s counter super is that he is not affected by the D.Phoenix blowback. I’m not sure if its invincibility frames that causes this (most likely) but for whatever reason Wesker just sits there right in front of her. The better part even is that Wesker recovers from the super before she even touches the ground. This puts her into a trap situation.
Basically what the trap entails is that D.Phoenix is still in the air when you recover from the counter super while being close to you. This means her options for escape are limited and you can force her to pretty much eat damage in some way no matter what she does. She’s in the air which means she can’t turn on X Factor until she touches the ground which means you’re guaranteed to at least chip her with any chipping super until she touches the ground. Her fireballs will have slower start up also which means if she tries to fireball while she’s still in the air I can hit her for free with Maximum Wesker. If I turn on XFactor I can pretty much ensure death. If she tries to teleport to the ground I can combo her or Maximum Wesker her out of the recovery. If I think she’s going to air dash upwards and away I can air throw her into XF death combo. If she tries to come down with an attack I can either mash c.M or S to combo her and kill her or I could probably even projectile counter if I think she’s going to do one of her chippy jabs and set up death combo off that.
To be honest, if I have 2 characters, and 2 bars I will ALWAYS try and super Phoenix on a teleport, and DHC to safety with Dorm/Ammy if possible. With the invincibility on Rage Trigger, you never really know. I assume there will be a crossup most of the time.
I succeed probably 65% of the time, not bad against the most broken situation in the game.
the next time I play my phoenix friend, Im going to camp out my x 23 and have morrigan build meter for me until I have four bars, and then snap her into a dirt nap. will no set up dirt nap to ankle slice kill a full health phoenix? if I have to, ill wait for 5 bars and otg into rage trigger or xfactor the ankle slice, to kill her, but I dont want to use any more resources than I have to. cus I still have to deal with the other 2 characters and x factor.
also, if any of you try to snap phoenix into a dirt nap. after the first time you do it, they will probably try to air dash up and away. From my experience, the best way to beat this is to super jump RIGHT before she comes on screen and fall down on to her with it, as she will be air dashing into you.
I don’t like Magneto’s tits and ass.
Yo damn…you just put a nasty image in my head. But QFT.
Lmao I guess you could put it that way.
Lmao I guess you could put it that way.
…Well played.
I switched to a different assist now… Akuma tatsu assist. That shit is mad cheap, and I think it is exactly what X-23 needs IMO
- extremely easy to combo off of. while it scales so you can only do one loop, you can still turn it into a ~600k damage combo
- lots of combo utility for X-23. OTG with ankle slice into tatsu assist is a Weapon X Prime setup
- once its active it nullifies low & medium priority projectiles - so that is everything except hyper combo stuff
- travels forwards a long ways - will easily stuff assists and then launch them for a combo
- decent amount of blockstun for hop mixups. will completely cover a command grab and DP on whiff
- easy to make it safe
- kinda works as a GTFO move
- low recovery compared to something like Sent drones or Doom beam, so you can be calling it constantly
Akuma is an incredibly cheap character too, kinda. Tricky to open people up with him (really tricky) but he does about 800k solo in a combo, so that seems like a fair tradeoff.
I think the best thing about Akuma Tatsu assist is the fact that you can use it to cover a fully charged neck slice, and if it hits, then neck slice will send them into spinning knockdown which is really easy to pick up with a combo. It’s like the poor man’s hit confirm.
I dabbled in Akuma as well, but the characters with roughly 800k, made it a very interesting risk/reward factor for me. He’s a great choice, besides that personal gripe. It’s too good…
Off topic, but watching the stream and Deviljin, your bro is disgusting, you must be so proud of him lol. Shame I can’t watch the rest of the stream, it’s proper late.
EDIT: JUST caught your match, your X-23 is really sick, really good match between you and Tyler. Zero is a problem and at the end, you switched your format to have Wesker on point and won.
LOL. Thx dude. Yeah the Zero matchup I know is a matchup that for now is a bit rough for 23. X23 normally has strong normals in a lot of matchups but anyone who has normals that dont have vulnerable hit boxes like Zero’s you’re just not going to be able to get anything going without an assist helping you to hit them out of a move. Which Doom beam is decent for that but unless I can use Doom’s beam to force Zero to block or get hit by something he can just swing swords around. I’ll have to work on that matchup more and see what else I can come up with. Wesker obviously handles Zero a bit better by being able to use his gun to chip out his low health and stay away from his death zone sword range. If it was like easier to air throw Zero out of his air shit it wouldn’t be so bad but the range on his j.H is so ridiculous that unless you catch him before he presses j.H you’re going to have to block or get hit. Which of course Zero only needs to land one hit and you’re down like 600-700k if he doesn’t drop the combo and get put in another mix up that could kill you for free.
The funny thing about the tournament was that execution wise I was screwing up like basic shit and not the shit I was worried about like the mirage feint cancels. I maybe only screwed that up like one time but like I would drop like the shit I thought was easy like calling in Wesker after the talon attack from the air launch and then the weapon x would like whiff. There was another situation where I was fighting Steve H’s team where I hit his Wolverine and his Akuma with a feint combo then forgot that Weapon X wont hit EITHER character if you have two characters in a combo. It sucks I had to waste a tournament match to figure that out but that’s what you gotta do to level up sometimes I guess. If I had just played it smarter and just burnt my XF level 1 to double rage trigger and kill both characters I probably would have had a good shot to win the match. Granted I would have had to fight level 3 XF Wesker after but I would like my chances if I could turtle out the XF long enough.
I lost early after that to another guy who used an interesting team of Super Skrull/Spider Man/Haggar in the back. Of course the one match I won against him I brought him to nothing but Haggar in the back and that was probably the most free match I’ve ever won. The other 2 matches was basically him making good reads on when I was hesitating and blocking too long against Super Skrull and either hitting me low into combo, diving on top of me with his teleport dive or command grabbing me. Then I was left with level 3 XF Doom as anchor and Spider Man can just like burn out Doom’s XF easily just running away to the top of the screen with the web line shit. If I tried to approach his super skrull it was like walking on eggshells because if I pressed the attack too much Haggar lariat would come out and give him free combo. If I sat around for too long then I would just open myself up to more shit from Skrull.
I know Haggar assist doesn’t hit a lot of low attacks though and I have 2 characters with c.L’s and M’s that hit low enough to the ground that the assist shouldn’t touch them and I can just keep up pressure. I’ll have to mess around with it and see. In the end though I’m probably just going to start picking up every character in the game and learning how they all work. I was so focused on learning to beat Phoenix and D.Phoenix because everyone is so worried about her but didn’t really take the time to learn the threats of the other characters. I just kinda assumed because my team did a lot of damage really fast that for a first tournament I would still get decently far. It was a humbling experience though and overall I was glad to just get the potential of X23 and the team out there. If I do go again next week I’ll have practiced up about every character in the game and will feel more prepared for the things they try to do.
Which speaking of Phoenix and D.Phoenix the whole scene is pretty much salty about that character. I still believe there’s a lot of ways around the character if you just put the time and the effort in. She basically forces you to use every little aspect of X Factor and the game’s air blocking system correctly to have a chance against her but I feel with the right strategies you can lame her out. I’m not just gonna settle for being the guy who hopes he snaps her in and kills her. I’m going to make sure I know every single little aspect about that character and formulate a strategy where basically unless someone absolutely gdlk plays her even if they get XF3 D.Phoenix they wont win. At the rate my scene is at right now we have like at least 8 Phoenix players now and that’s not going to go well at all if we go to a major and we’re all just worse versions of other people’s Phoenixes (and can’t even beat the character ourselves).
Nice to hear your experiences in that tournament and nah, don’t worry man, there’s always next time. Besides, you got X-23 out there and you showed me the stuff I should be doing, like using her feints WAY more often and using more Mirage Feint L to counter advancing guard. Need to find the archive of the stream! I’ve been using Dante, Trish and X-23 as of late, and all my assists seem really slow for cover lol. May keep Dante in Weasel Shot, but use Peekaboo for Trish instead of Low Voltage.
Zero, along with Taskmaster, Magneto and Dormammu, I’m beginning to hate. I don’t think there’s a reliable way to beat Zero with X-23 unless you’ve got great assists to take him out like you said. I just resort to L Talon abuse or switch to another character. It’s a matter of getting that first combo to make sure he dies but when he’s on a roll, it’s hard to get him off basically.
And it’s a shame that everyone’s going for Phoenix. Is it because of Unknown lol?
Lol everyone is going to phoenix coz she’s cheap >__>"
ahem anyways, i was watching your matches DevilJin01 (i was actually watching both your guy’s stream and GC15 at once lol) you represented x-23 well xD picked up a few things from watching your matches.
against zero; just rush that fucker down, if you wait and try to block his shit you’re gonna get killed FAST. what you need to do against him is have a good assist covering you and stay on his ass non-stop.
this obviously can be effected if he has a good assist but other than the assist zero has no way of keeping people off of him, well there’s his lvl 3 but i doubt anyone would use that lol
Yeah, Phoenix is pretty dirt at the moment(well, Dark Phoenix with X-Factor is) but it didn’t help that a Phoenix player came out of nowhere and won the last Xanadu tournament lol. And yeah, it seems like whoever gets the first hit or gets momentum wins out of X-23 and Zero.
I dont think people really run to Phoenix because Phoenix is cheap. Phoenix and D.Phoenix without XF IMO are very beatable. The issue is when the characters is in level 3 XF she no longer has the issues of having a slow start up fireball that is a requirement to start her offense and being able to to be chipped out easily. That pretty much goes away and all of her Contra/R Type normals get faster and allow her to chip you easier and force you to turn you XF on. People like the comfortability of the most powerful XF3 character in game. Which I already knew she was the most powerful XF3 character in the game a week before the game came out and played it early. When I saw what she could do in XF3 I made sure never to complain about Sentinel. I knew what the real threat was going to be from the beginning.
It’s the same thing back when Justin Wong deemed XF3 Sentinel was super OP broken back when the game first came out. Which of course if people knew about XF3 D.Phoenix they wouldn’t even give XF3 Sentinel much of a thought. XF3 allows you to kill pretty much anyone on first touch any way. Long as you have meter to add a super at the end the person should pretty much always die no matter what character you use. Especially now that people are figuring out most of the stuff that’s good about Sentinel on point is severely whiff punishable (like his armor normals that everyone cried about for days).
Now XF buffs up another character to an extreme that makes XF3 Sent IMO seem rather doable. Probably the toughest part about dealing with XF3 D.Phoenix is that even if even if you outlame her level 3 XF with yours she can then easily just turn on healing field and force it so the next 10 seconds if you ever do land a hit on her her health goes up to like something like 600-800k depending on how much red life she has left. If the D.Phoenix has a lot of red life left it’s like having to kill Ammy or Zero instead of Phoenix. That’s why you wanna kill the other 2 members on her team as fast as possible so she doesn’t have minions building up meter for her when she’s in the back.
You could always just “snap in” regular Phoenix and kill her but snapping in doesn’t guarantee a win now and will only guarantee a win less in the future. It’s a good strategy to use but if you dont have a backup strategy for when D.Phoenix comes out and you burn your XF early like pretty much everyone at the tournament did…you might as well just pick Phoenix I guess. I’m not giving into to the freedom of relying on XF3 D.Phoenix to win matches as it will be more satisfying to just stuff lazy Phoenix players in instead. If I’m going to lose to a D.Phoenix they better have like crazy crazy shit. Other scenes are starting to figure it out and find anti Phoenix teams but I wanna go a step beyond that and figure out all of the basic aspects on how to beat D.Phoenix then work my team to be more anti D.Phoenix. If I could beat Chun Li and Yun in 3rd Strike with Ibuki I can certainly beat up lazy D.Phoenix players too.
@Eternal…thx for the props. I’m glad to put a few new things on the table and I still didn’t really utilize all that I wanted to like the instant d+H stuff that I think is really good after a block string to dash in with. I noticed on smaller to regular sized characters that if you do a block string to dash forward instant d+H it can cross them up if they’re crouching. I’ll have to work on using Doom beam assist more in my block strings to stay in once I get in because people want to mash on advance guard like the first second you touch them with a s.M or s.H LOL. Using the beam assist or even Wesker’s shot assist as something they can’t just decide to mash pushblock on and give me room to get back in should be solid. I’m sure I could work some command grab games in there off that as well.
Definitely gonna be in it to win it with X23. Definitely fits my play style and she goes well with the team. This is my team for good whether they keep the DHC glitch in…take it out whatever I really like the potential overall.
Mad props to JimmyP for taking X-23 into the Guard Crush 15 grand finals, from winners bracket no less! But the grand final was hard to watch, JimmyP made some mistakes and Nerdjosh capitalized on just about every one of them. Hopefully when JimmyP gets some more tourney experience he will be more consistent, great matches JimmyP!
I haven’t watched WNF yet, hopefully some good X-23 stuff there, and I am looking forward to seeing DevilJin in action! Which stream was he playing on?
I was watching some of Jimmy P’s stuff and he had a nice solid game. One thing I really liked about what he did was using the M talon talon attack to catch people regular jumping from a distance (like against She Hulk who’s always doing that dumb shit) and if they block it it forces them into a 50/50 d+H cross. The M talon talon attack forces the opponent to the ground after blocking it in the and then the d+H dive seems to be able to ambiguously hit in the front or the back to set up a combo. He tended to combo off of c.H a lot and sometimes it would get blocked and put him in trouble but some feint hold cancel stuff could rectify that.
BTW I’m going to post up links to my footage in the video thread.
EDIT: Big announcement. Apparently “SUPER” Marvel vs. Capcom 3 is in the works. I mean it was kinda obvious in some ways because there are just some aspects about the game that are outlandish (like level 3 XF).
I was thinking about how this might affect X23 and well it’s obvious DHC glitch is going to be gone by the time Super MVC3 comes out so no more using that to make her easily viable. I still think she’s a very underrated character that has a lot of tools to get around advance guard (probably the most of anyone in the game without an assist) and a lot of of ways to put you in left right cross ups. When people get better with setting up her H mirage feint she’ll definitely be able to bring the threat of unblockables to the table easily as well when she gets in. Her wall jump gives her ways to approach the opponent by kinda switching to a more zoning style and waiting for the opponent to do something you whiff punish and get a jump off the wall into a talon attack or dive or other jump in to start a combo.
When the DHC glitch does go away we’ll definitely have to put together all of the little small attributes of X23 to make the most of her. She’s not just go in and do shit like Wolverine. She wasn’t made for those types of players. X23 is for people that like execution and like to look at little picky shit all the time when playing. Which if you do those things I think there’s still a lot of potential even with the DHC reset loss. Her normals are really strong against most of the cast and she only really needs to hit you once to start tearing you up and there’s a lot of ways for her to put you in another combo afterwards. It’s just if you get hit and they have meter the scary threat of X23’s mix up will make most people want to blow all their meter or even XF to get rid of her so that’s something we’ll have to be aware of.
Some other rumors I heard were that Wolverine’s damage was getting toned down which would help X23’s viability a bit post DHC glitch removal. Right now Wolverine gets a lot for a little and although I think X23 overall has better tools than him it’s definitely easy to just hit someone once with Wolverine and get a stupid rewarding profit. I just think that X23 has so many ways to open a person up that once they’re all explored it will be really easy for her to open people up on any get in. I also heard a rumor that Zero’s normals are getting toned down so that will help X23 actually be able to poke him and not just whiff punish him. Specifically the vulnerable hit boxes on his normals are supposed to be bigger.