MvC3 Balance Tweaks Take 2: X Factor Harder

[the7k]

Let me say this again, you know nothing about the phoenix, and probably the game as a whole if you think you have to chip phoenix to death in order to kill her.

Every time she’s snapped in its a 50/50, she has to block one way or the other, or she’s going to fireball. Set up the 50/50 and punish her if she fireballs.

Everything you say after the bolded part is just stupid, there was no point to post it, unless your point was to show off how little you know about this game. (That does not mean everything above or including the bolded part isn’t stupid)

Cool your jets, man - it’s just hyperbole based off of frustration. Yes, Phoenix pisses the fuck out of me. Yes, I don’t know anything about her. I appreciate the tips. Not so much the tone, but thanks anyway. I guess I’ll just have to work on my cross-ups - which I do admittedly suck at.

I learned early on to pretty much Hyper as soon as I hear her say ‘Dodge This!’, but it seems like all my Phoenix sparing partners have adapted to this. Much like the Borg, it seems like every tactic only works once and then I have to develop an entirely new strategy.

[quixotegut]

These suggestions would make Hulk incredibly broken. The Gamma Charge one is the only one thats rational, and it’s pretty much general consensus from what I’ve been reading in this thread anyway.

Standing H being an overhead would be too good. Dashes can be jump canceled, they work fine as is. L Gamma Wave hitting low is really unnecessary also. Gamma Tornado is okay, the range is deceptive but still pretty nice and you can kara cancel s.M or s.H into it.

The Gamma Rage super is just fanservice and would make him into Dark Phoenix on a cocaine binge with 1.2mil. Why not give him Hsien-Ko’s Hyper armor move while we’re at it? Let’s break him right if we’re gonna break him.

What, you wouldn’t want to give Hulk some Unblockable setups with :h: being overhead? (sarcasm)

I see Nini’s points, but as I’ve stated before, Gamma Charge getting some type of armor is the only logical and canonical thing to me.

Profound sadness.

You fished, I bit, the internets are sated.

[Redbeard]

What, you wouldn’t want to give Hulk some Unblockable setups with :h: being overhead? (sarcasm)

I see Nini’s points, but as I’ve stated before, Gamma Charge getting some type of armor is the only logical and canonical thing to me.

Lol I mean obviously I wouldn’t complain about it being a Hulk player myself, but it’s definitely not needed. I already have unblockable setups with Hulk/Pool. Then people learned how to hold up+back.

I think we all agree that Gamma Charge should have some sort of armor. I’d say make it destroy projectiles like Akuma’s Tatsu, but I think that may be a bit too much and could be easily abused. I should at least be able to charge through Wesker’s gun shot. Puny bullet no stop HULK!!!

[Zensouken]

You seem to fail to comprehend reading comprehension but that’s something else entirely. And I’m done, I could care less about Hulk, or arguing about Hulk, or who thinks what about Hulk.

[quixotegut]

Lol I mean obviously I wouldn’t complain about it being a Hulk player myself, but it’s definitely not needed. I already have unblockable setups with Hulk/Pool. Then people learned how to hold up+back.

I think we all agree that Gamma Charge should have some sort of armor. I’d say make it destroy projectiles like Akuma’s Tatsu, but I think that may be a bit too much and could be easily abused. I should at least be able to charge through Wesker’s gun shot. Puny bullet no stop HULK!!!

True it may be a bit too much, but, again, we’re trying to bring “lower” characters into the upper ranks. He needs something that powerful.

You seem to fail to comprehend reading comprehension but that’s something else entirely. And I’m done, I could care less about Hulk, or arguing about Hulk, or who thinks what about Hulk.

I seemed to have comprehended what I read quite well. Given that there was no preface to the fact that you had no problem dealing with :h:, it would lead anybody to believe that you were just another :h: complainer.

Glad to know you’re done, though, as I could go on forever about how the Hulk is a shell of what he should be. Also, why are you bowing out with such gusto? You’re the one who dropped the “broken” comment, all naked and unreasoned, to begin with.

[Densuo]

Haggar

• All versions of piledriver can be comboed off of afterwards like Thor.
• H Hoodlum launcher has reduced start up and recovers quickly in the air so Haggar can attack afterward.
• Level 3 now does 600,000 damage, is completely invincible, and can be comboed into.
• L violent Axe goes through projectiles.
• Drop kick enters rolling state quicker.

Hsien Ko

• Current dash becomes a special move and she gets a new normal dash that’s quick and effective.
• Projectiles no longer random. They are dependent on the button pressed.
• 950k health.
• 8% damage increase across the board.

Haggar
Tell me. What’s the point of the piledriver buff if you can’t land it? a faster startup, increased range, and damage are a better idea. it would be an option for him after a block string from an opponent so that he can at least deal damage instead of getting counter hit out of his slow as shit normals.

Hoodlum H I can agree with as it sucks how slow it is AND how it doesn’t recover.

Final Haggar Buster already has invincibility. Same deal as regular piledriver. moar DAMAGE. quite frankly, you get caught by this, you deserve to die.

Violent Axe be like ex green hand? I can dig it.

Hsien
I understand the point on random projectiles, but what about button strength determining the angle? Keep the angles per strength, just make all the random items that pop up have the exact properties and hit boxes.

Can we just have VS Hsien souped up for MVC3 and be done with it?

[D_Dollars]

hers my wishlist

dante

-gets an command grab called smoking sick style that combo’s

wesker

-during cinematic win pose he says " complete global saturation"

[SaltyKracka]

hers my wishlist

dante

-gets an command grab called smoking sick style that combo’s

wesker

-during cinematic win pose he says " complete global saturation"

haha no

[Honor_Basquiat]

There are a lot of things but 3 that come to mind that are the most important, non-character related.

Remove/Alter TAC

The fact that you can get a safe tag without spending any meter, and build meter or get a damage boost at the same time and continue a combo (with a potential level 3 like gravity squeeze) with no serious potential consequence is just silly, it’s really just baffling that Capcom didn’t think that was OP. Honestly, it’s on par with X-Factor. It’s also a tactic that promotes scrub combos. When a TAC is countered, the opponent should actually be able to follow up the counter, it’s a fucking counter. It’s so stupid seeing the character who gets countered falling out of the sky while you can’t do anything. After a counter you should have the opprutunity to do a full combo. Sure you could make it so you just have to pay to TAC, but if you make it so there can be an actual counter, it’d happen far less frequently. The character who also gets the counter should also get the meter boost (or even better, take meter from the opponent) Maybe you could have the option of paying for it and not getting countered. The window to input the counter should also be a wider. Honestly, it shouldn’t be a reliable at tactic at all.

Fix X-Factor

Honestly, give it an off/on switch, that way people can play with it or not. A lot of times I play my friends in casuals without it, and it’s a lot more fun, the comebacks are far more rewarding. If you had to alter it, just nerf it across the board. Make level 2 and 3 much shorter (maybe about half the time) as well as a noticeable speed and power nerf. If a player is up 3 to 1, it should be virtually impossible for a comeback to occur. I hate watching streams and seeing that shit, honestly, I just roll my eyes. People say it’s not that big of a deal, and everyone has X-Factor, but when Dorm is level 2, and he puts out two floating bombs and then DHC’s into hailstorm, suddenly you have like no health and there’s nothing you can do about it. Shit like that is just silly, it’s obvious Capcom didn’t think it would be this game breaking.

Remove the DHC glitch

It’s not only OP but it discourages many characters from being played that don’t have the option.

Super Skrull (Really would love to hear more on fixing Skrull)
He’s my main character, I really like him, but I’m finally beginning to realize he blows. He’s not particularly GREAT at anything. His damage output is only great with resets which aren’t reliable or safe (for him), his assists blow, he’s not super mobile, he’s not very fast. Give him flight (along with a back air dash), I mean he’s fucking Super Skrull for christ sakes. That way he could do more damage with all his combos but you’d have to work for it. Dumb that you can’t even get to 600k from an elastic grab. Give him some type of projectile (I mean he’s fucking Super Skrull), I was thinking of something slow like a full screen kioken as a fire ball but with a lot of durability. It doesn’t have to be fantastic but something so he doesn’t get zoned out so easily. Buff his assist(s) give orbital grudge more hyper armor, and make tenderizer and stone smite do more damage. He really has some of the worst assists in the game. Also change the input for Rolling Hook, such a stupid input.

Hsien-Ko (For Killer Jiggs)
She really seems interesting, I really wanted to play her but she blows. She needs to be way faster, someone said 10%, but she needs to be like Chun fast. Give her a slight damage boost too, nothing crazy though, maybe like 15%. Make her projectile on a rotation, so you can actually use the dizzy. Make her air dash faster too. Hitboxes should be a little bigger. That’s pretty much it. Hyper Armor should also be longer on point, but not way longer.

[Killer_Jigglypuff]

There are a lot of things but 3 that come to mind that are the most important, non-character related.

Remove/Alter TAC

The fact that you can get a safe tag without spending any meter, and build meter or get a damage boost at the same time and continue a combo (with a potential level 3 like gravity squeeze) with no serious potential consequence is just silly, it’s really just baffling that Capcom didn’t think that was OP. Honestly, it’s on par with X-Factor. It’s also a tactic that promotes scrub combos. When a TAC is countered, the opponent should actually be able to follow up the counter, it’s a fucking counter. It’s so stupid seeing the character who gets countered falling out of the sky while you can’t do anything. After a counter you should have the opprutunity to do a full combo. Sure you could make it so you just have to pay to TAC, but if you make it so there can be an actual counter, it’d happen far less frequently. The character who also gets the counter should also get the meter boost (or even better, take meter from the opponent) Maybe you could have the option of paying for it and not getting countered. The window to input the counter should also be a wider. Honestly, it shouldn’t be a reliable at tactic at all.

Fix X-Factor

Honestly, give it an off/on switch, that way people can play with it or not. A lot of times I play my friends in casuals without it, and it’s a lot more fun, the comebacks are far more rewarding. If you had to alter it, just nerf it across the board. Make level 2 and 3 much shorter (maybe about half the time) as well as a noticeable speed and power nerf. If a player is up 3 to 1, it should be virtually impossible for a comeback to occur. I hate watching streams and seeing that shit, honestly, I just roll my eyes. People say it’s not that big of a deal, and everyone has X-Factor,** but when Dorm is level 3, and he puts out two floating bombs and then DHC’s into hailstorm, suddenly you have like no health and there’s nothing you can do about it.** Shit like that is just silly, it’s obvious Capcom didn’t think it would be this game breaking.

Remove the DHC glitch

It’s not only OP but it discourages many characters from being played that don’t have the option.

Super Skrull (Really would love to hear more on fixing Skrull)
He’s my main character, I really like him, but I’m finally beginning to realize he blows. He’s not particularly GREAT at anything. His damage output is only great with resets which aren’t reliable or safe (for him), his assists blow, he’s not super mobile, he’s not very fast. Give him flight (along with a back air dash), I mean he’s fucking Super Skrull for christ sakes. That way he could do more damage with all his combos but you’d have to work for it. Dumb that you can’t even get to 600k from an elastic grab. Give him some type of projectile (I mean he’s fucking Super Skrull), I was thinking of something slow like a full screen kioken as a fire ball but with a lot of durability. It doesn’t have to be fantastic but something so he doesn’t get zoned out so easily. Buff his assist(s) give orbital grudge more hyper armor, and make tenderizer and stone smite do more damage. He really has some of the worst assists in the game. Also change the input for Rolling Hook, such a stupid input.

Hsien-Ko (For Killer Jiggs)
She really seems interesting, I really wanted to play her but she blows. She needs to be way faster, someone said 10%, but she needs to be like Chun fast. Give her a slight damage boost too, nothing crazy though, maybe like 15%. Make her projectile on a rotation, so you can actually use the dizzy. Make her air dash faster too. Hitboxes should be a little bigger. That’s pretty much it. Hyper Armor should also be longer on point, but not way longer.

I like the majority of this post, but I had to point this out. How is Dorm DHCing to hailstorm if he has level 3 X-Factor?

[Honor_Basquiat]

lol, yeah, fail, well level 2 X-Factor, it’s early (for me). I don’t know, I hate chip damage a lot. I run a team similar to yours, Tron Anchor, and a feel terrible when I’m just chipping (and even killing people on block) with Tron Fire. The chip factor in X-Factor is crazy.** A player who blocks everything perfectly can still easily die from chip, that just doesn’t make any sense at all.** I really don’t like to throw the word broken around a lot. Everyone says… “drones are broken” “Tron fire is broken” etc. But I honetly believe X-Factor is broken. You gain health, speed, power, and a cancel, plus take no chip during and deal insane chip. Not to mention no serious potential consequence for using it (unlike TvC BBQ)

[Nini_Heart]

hers my wishlist

dante

-gets an command grab called smoking sick style that combo’s

wesker

-during cinematic win pose he says " complete global saturation"

This. They should also allow trish hopscotch to OTG and decrease the size of her hands a bit.

[Maze_Maker]

Alter OTG windows (vary them for different attacks)
Alter Advancing guard. It seems too good to me (although it helps out my style quite well). Pushing back the opponent a bit too much.
Break down X-factor into two choices: Offensive and Defensive, choosable at the selection screen.

Obviously the offensive would get speed and dmg boost, defensive will have the no-chip feature and health regen. Both get the start-up invincibility? Or something around that nature~

[Densuo]

There are a lot of things but 3 that come to mind that are the most important, non-character related.

Remove/Alter TAC

The fact that you can get a safe tag without spending any meter, and build meter or get a damage boost at the same time and continue a combo (with a potential level 3 like gravity squeeze) with no serious potential consequence is just silly, it’s really just baffling that Capcom didn’t think that was OP. Honestly, it’s on par with X-Factor. It’s also a tactic that promotes scrub combos. When a TAC is countered, the opponent should actually be able to follow up the counter, it’s a fucking counter. It’s so stupid seeing the character who gets countered falling out of the sky while you can’t do anything. After a counter you should have the opprutunity to do a full combo. Sure you could make it so you just have to pay to TAC, but if you make it so there can be an actual counter, it’d happen far less frequently. The character who also gets the counter should also get the meter boost (or even better, take meter from the opponent) Maybe you could have the option of paying for it and not getting countered. The window to input the counter should also be a wider. Honestly, it shouldn’t be a reliable at tactic at all.

I smell a TAC Hater.

TAC for me actually has a bad habit of making me drop combos. I like using it to safely tag in a character into an advantageous position. IE Taskmaster opens up opponent, do a combo, TAC into Haggar combo that ends in Air Pipe, relaunch, Air Combo that ends in Air S, from here I can either have Haggar come at the now grounded opponent or xx Giant Haggar Press DHC Legion Arrows.

If I were to modify TAC it’d be:

Meter gain. Building meter in this game is already easy (Sup Magneto). Any meter gained during TAC should be gained as per usual in a combo. Remove that one bar of meter you gain for downward TAC

TAC Counters. If the opponent has succesfully countered a TAC they should recover before the person that was countered, allowing them to turn the tables.

Increased Damage Scaling. TACs are (IMO) more inclined for beginners to still be able to deal damage against better players who know the ins and outs of individual combos. The fact that you’re tagging in free without meter should be balanced out further with more damage scaling since by the end of the TAC, if you don’t get countered, you’re already building meter and doing pretty damn good damage on top of being in an advantageous position and possibly landing more damage with a Hyper tacked on at the end that you prolly wouldn’t land beforehand.

[AceKillah]

This. They should also allow trish hopscotch to OTG and decrease the size of her hands a bit.

trish manhands are pretty scary but who cares i dont really like her anyway (Lady fanboy)

[shinquickman]

I kinda agree with Honor Basquiat about TAC counters. I would prefer if everyone were able to follow up after one to increase the risk of doing a TAC in the first place. I also agree a bit with Maze Maker about advance guard. Maybe we can get some normals/specials immune to the pushback like most supers or Ironman’s Repulser blast.

[Cauldrath]

Looking at the game right now, are TACs really running things? It seems like most of the time people don’t even bother doing them because they want that guaranteed damage.

Also, who would benefit most from nerfing Advancing Guard? The generally top-tier rushdown characters, or the generally bottom-tier keepaway characters? I could see giving Haggar and maybe Hulk and Tron moves that were immune to Advancing Guard, but that’s about it. Ironically, the only character with moves that are truly immune to it is Dante, with his Thunderbolt and Vortex.

[Nobus3r1]

trish manhands are pretty scary but who cares i dont really like her anyway (Ladyboy fan)

:eek:

I kinda agree with Honor Basquiat about TAC counters. I would prefer if everyone were able to follow up after one to increase the risk of doing a TAC in the first place. I also agree a bit with Maze Maker about advance guard. Maybe we can get some normals/specials immune to the pushback like most supers or Ironman’s Repulser blast.

No, push block is fine as it is. Defense needs all the help it can get in this game. That said I do agree that TAC needs a few revisions mostly because the risk-reward ratio is a bit skewed not like X-Factor skewed but still a bit of an issue. That said I don’t think it’ll take that much to make it viable as IMO the real reason that TAC are an issue are the DHC trick and Phoenix.

[Honor_Basquiat]

Clockwork TACs all the time, and it’s so stupid, it’s this silly little guessing game that ruins everything, and sometimes it happens to fast, you don’t even really have to to react and guess right (if the person doesn’t always TAC, it can take you by surprise) that’s why the window needs to be bigger. The risk is almost nothing but the reward is insane. Once again, meter build, plus safe tag, plus able to continue the combo, with no serious consequence if you get "countered’ and certain character when they TAC can come in and seriously wreck shit up, like MODOK and Sentinel. Then it becomes, “Oh, your MODOK CKC’d me because I didn’t fucking guess right, and even if I would have I wouldn’t have been able to punish you.”

I never felt advanced guarding was OP, but my first fighter was TvC so I’m so used to how important it was in that game.

Would love to hear some more thoughts on buffing Skrull if possible.

Looking at the game right now, are TACs really running things? It seems like most of the time people don’t even bother doing them because they want that guaranteed damage.

Also, who would benefit most from nerfing Advancing Guard? The generally top-tier rushdown characters, or the generally bottom-tier keepaway characters? I could see giving Haggar and maybe Hulk and Tron moves that were immune to Advancing Guard, but that’s about it. Ironically, the only character with moves that are truly immune to it is Dante, with his Thunderbolt and Vortex.

[Ranadiel]

FACT: Trish was modeled after Uma Thurman. Thus the manhands and enormous feet.