Yeah I’m past that now, remember I said day 2. Although, I’d almost want to say that Dante’s is the scariest of the 3 mentioned though because you can monitor Wolverine and Zero’s approach toward you. Whereas with Dante’s he teleports(preventing you from just wanting to smash Sent assist, cause Dante will get behind you and cover it), which normally he’d always end up behind you no matter what, but the drones can push you in front or behind Dante before decent, and the drones could possibly keep him safe from being struck, and keep you from leaping. Some characters can handle this setup better than others.
you seem to be confused about the mixup dante gets. Those layers do no apply to wolverine. Once dante teleports randomly during drones hit, they bounce you around. Now dante’s teleport always goes behind the opponent but when you time it with drones properly, they slide you to the front and even from this side, falling C hits random as FUCK.
Furthermore after drones hit, teleport, air dash forward, C makes his teleport game 4 corner and that shit gets really nasty during a drone pin.
There is some serious ass bullshit going on with that dante\drones.
I’m not denying that Dante + Sentinel is a deadly combination -that’s a given.
Should clarify that Dante’s teleport on its own isn’t great. With a good assist it is fabulous mixup, probably moreso than non-teleporters. Not sure if it means he’s higher on the tier list because he can get an easy mixup with the right assist.
some characters in mvc2 were only top tier when given certain teams
Strider\spiral being thrown around on random teams weren’t great but when on the right team, they were top tier characters like with team duc and team clock.
Yeah it’s not just Dante naked teleporting that’s a problem. The problem is when he uses his assists to basically force you into left right mix ups all day after blocking them then going into teleport. This is after he’s done a good job controlling the screen with broke ass priority sword normals that go into combos off a dime.
At the time, my answer for the Dante/Sent mixup was Deadpool/Trish(hopscotch). I’d be zoning with Deadpool and call out Trish’s hopscotch and just stand on top of it with Deadpool, or slightly in front or behind it, either way when a teleporter comes near it’ll hit. So I was able to punish drones while being protected from the teleport.
My next quesiton is how often do you see MODOK corner trapping anyone?
As to the guarding situation, try this, go into training, record a character standing swinging on the ground a few times then immediately jump while swinging (like you’re trying wolverines instant overhead), push play on that so the dummy is swinging wildly in close intervals while jumping. Or just do a delayed black string next to MODOK. Now with MODOK hold U/B during while pushing play, let MODOK block a few hits on the ground. After a small break in the string if MODOK is holding U/B he WILL GET HIT.
If I decide to stop being lazy I’ll record it with input display on. It’s true. MODOKS ever wondered why you’d suddenly get opened up while holding U/B while under pressure? This is why. Not game breaking but worth noting. Keep in mind nothing I posted makes me believe MODOK is unplayable. I do well with him, a better player will undoubtedly do even better.
No tournament MODOKS have really done anything amazing with him yet however.
See also Destins post above. But yeah Zero can get damage it’s just that the combos that do so are among those requiring more dexterity. I’ve been putting off a lot of Zeros combos because they make my fingers cramp up. :razzy:
Your argument was based on “It’s not too early for a patch because there’s a patch”. But you want evidence to suggest it was unnecessary? I present you with as an example Amaterasu, Wesker and She-Hulk, i.e. 3 characters who own Sentinel (would also consider including Wolverine). All own him for different reasons but those are downright funny matchups to watch. -400K health means Sentinel just dies faster to those. And while I don’t have a tally on hand a not insignificant portion of the cast has instant overheads on Sentinel. Based on that (i.e. 3 extraordinarily terribad matchups and instant overheads all over the place) I don’t see a character that needs to be trimmed. People complain about his damage being excessive and IMO what they’re usually saying is that damage for ease of combo is skewed and that’s not something that really needs to be addressed. I mean we’re also discussing Zero combos that damage-wise match or nearly match what Sentinel can do. The difference? They’re much harder to do and they’re attached to a different (and so far less hated) body. The overall goal of balancing should be reducing dominance in good matchups AND improving bad matchups while acknowledging that a series of true 5-5 matchups across the board is both impossible and undesirable. I would argue that a simple health nerf accomplished neither as it simply makes already bad matchups end faster and in most cases probably won’t affect good matchups as about the only thing it really did was make Sentinel crappier/riskier as an assist.
come on guys, I would love to come in here sometime and see a teir list (even if its bad). Title is Actual Balance/Potential Teir list, not who hates Sentinel.
I know some of you are trying to steer this thread back in the right direction.
Here we go since Im complaining about the thread:(i am in no way qualified for this since I play in an online bubble with no actual human contact)
S:
She-Hulk, Wesker, Wolverine,
A:
Akuma, Ammy, Dorma, Doom, Hagger, Zero
B:
Dante, Hulk, Magneto, Storm, Sentinel, Trish, Tron(from the Mad Real World), Ryu
C:
Arthur, Pheonix
D:
C.Viper, Viewtiful Joe,
IDK and everyone else in there somewhere, I just felt obligated to post something like that since Im smack talking the none tier talkers
Sougenmu loop is something you should learn, but has nothing to do with this combo. Honestly though because of not being able to gain meter during Sougenmu it’s not normally worth doing Sougenmu combos, but if you happen to start a combo with Sougenmu active because you just tagged back in or something then you will want to know them.
[media=youtube]0TNKtMriqZw[/media]
I wish I had more subscribers XD
My argument was that leaning on “it’s too early” as a reason nothing should be done is circular logic and that people used this line when people to rebuke other individuals that stated he was overpowered in the grand scheme of things. These same individuals are the ones coming here stating that Sentinel did not require a nerf, for the reasons you mentioned, when the same logic could be applied to a game change that was a mere hours old.
The problem with sentinel is that he was not only a ridiculously strong character with myriad tools(OTG rocket punch, invulnerable air super that’s 1-70 frames and the longest invincibility in the game, ability to do 2 HCs in a row without X-factor, insane damage output, flight, double jump and wave dash) but also that his assist complemented the entire cast due to its blanket effect and lockdown properties. One could merely call it with little consequence, thus allowing point characters to have the ability to engage in their mixup shenanigans with little to no problems. By removing his health, you lessen his effectiveness as an assist, therefore leveling the playing field. This is why reducing his health was a good idea. People will now have to make an active choice, instead of going for the obvious one, thus balancing the game.
Whether or not the damage increase is worth it or not depends on your team make up and meter usage. A second position Zero should most certainly be ready to do a d-loop that does 9.5k, that is a character killer on half the cast. Plenty of people drop level 3 bombs to finish off characters. IIRC it can be done in a way where you only lose out on 2/3 of a meter, while giving your opponent less meter since it is a low comparative number of hits. All in all its probably about a 2.25 meter combo that kills half the cast.
Edit: Sent is still pretty decent.
I hate to play the agree to disagree card but I don’t think we’re ever going to find a middle ground on whether or not patching the game was even necessary in the first place.
So what you seem to be implying here is that Sentinel is more useful as an assist than on point. So then why not examine ways to lessen his assist without making him worse on point versus the matchups I mentioned earlier? As far as his various tools go if those are the problem then those are the things that should have been adjusted. I would also argue that “insane damage output” isn’t an issue unless it’s also easy to land and unless you’re walking into boots or frying pans that first hit confirm isn’t as easy to achieve with Sentinel as people seem to think. Anecdotally I would argue that looking at the Final Round XIV matchups that when facing JWong and Combofiend that having Sentinel on his team was actually a liability for Marn. Even it’s just a couple of matches from one event I don’t think a truly “ridiculously strong character” should ever be described as a liability.
I heard that Marn said he was contemplating on getting rid of Sent soon also. There’s not really that much to him that’s getting discovered and at 900k health he’ll just be another character that swings around shit randomly but dies fast on point. There’s more technical characters that could do better for his team.
I still think they should have kept his health at at least 1 or 1.05 but either way this 900k shit is just going to slowly see the end of Sent being used by the top top players when there’s other characters with a lot of great tools and some of them have a good bit more health also. Characters that arent hindered by a huge hit box and limited mix up game (while still having low health…).
Not to mention indirectly making a lot of characters who used Sent’s assist to not suck worse!
It’s funny,
I missed 11 pages worth of posts since the last time I checked this thread
and every single one is about sent. 
Also, this:
Also, I think it’s definitively worth noting that sentinels main uses were as anchor and for his assist. I feel like the nerf, outside of combos and how fast you can kill him once he is out and what not, really just limited the spamability of sentinel force, which seems like a wise goal from a balance perspective. Competitively speaking, I’m not sure this will change all THAT much. Now he dies as quickly as most characters, and still dishes out tons of damage even before x-factor. 400k seems a bit excessive, but I personally like the idea/direction.
That’s not what I’m implying at all. What I said was “The problem with sentinel is that he was not only a ridiculously strong character with myriad tools(OTG rocket punch, invulnerable air super that’s 1-70 frames and the longest invincibility in the game, ability to do 2 HCs in a row without X-factor, insane damage output, flight, double jump and wave dash) but also that his assist complemented the entire cast due to its blanket effect and lockdown properties.”. That implies that Sentinel is useful both on point and as an assist.
Because sentinel is still a viable choice after the patch due to the tools that I mentioned. He’s just not a staple character when it comes to tossing him into a team, which is the way it should be.
Meiz is bottom tier and gets zoned out easily by the ignore option.
I could get behind that and it would offer a bit of room for people to adjust. Personally I think I’ll be keeping sent on my team and trying to buffer into him with an aerial assist if there’s a particular character I don’t want to deal with in order to destroy them.
It looks like you’re using level 3 x-factor in that combo, WITH ASSISTS. I shouldn’t have to explain how viable that is in a real match (hint: it’s not even possible).
Even if it is level 1 x-factor though, you really need to try to not kill someone when you activate x-factor. This is the worst case of false advertising I’ve seen in a long while.
Zero’s damage is average to low (~500,000-600,000 with one meter where 600,000 is about the norm) even with proper assist support. Even Marn doesn’t do crazy damage with Zero alone. He does, however, have a very easy time hitting with his opponents with great mixups, decent ranged game, and disjointed hitboxes. The way he gets really great damage is from DHCs, since he can easily play off of a DHC scaling reset and his skittles move comes out fully even if you DHC out of it immediately.