magneto you have a point with, doom I don’t really see it
You’ve never seen good Doom.
Doom is at worst Iron Man with better zoning. (my opinion). But in reality he’s got much more than that going for him.
Zero’s instant overheads are more useful than Wolverine’s without an assist since he can combo off a lot of them solo, and the ones that work with an assist come out as fast as wolvie’s. Zero’s damage output is definitely better, but the fact that Wolverine’s mix up is dramatically easier to do is a big thing. Wolverine doesn’t need to know what side he’s on with Berzerker slash to easily hit confirm into whatever he wants. I think Zero’s a much better character especially as people get more stable with combos since most good characters take 1 hit to kill 800 and 1 hit to kill 950.
Doom has crazy keepaway once learned though. A good keepaway Doom can keep you off of him forever.
No he can’t. Still better than IM though.
of course I have , I just wouldn’t compare doom to iron man .
The only “instant” overhead Zero has is j.M on Sentinel and maybe dorm. If you can run up to someone and do TK feint into a normal and not get counter hit without an assist covering you, I’d be impressed. That overhead is very situational.
I think the only character that has a raw instant overhead they can just combo off of anywhere without an assist is Ammy, and hers is unsafe, since there’s no time to hitconfirm it.
On the subject of Zero’s damage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmr3EqMt1Sg&#t=6m42
Please note how much meter that combo starts with as well as the position on screen that it starts from. Yes the execution is difficult but it’s nothing beyond what would be considered standard in MvC2. My execution isn’t even good at all, so I see the fact that I can even do this combo as a testament to its practicality when used by someone actually good.
My execution is ass and I have beaten several with a keepaway Doom. Keepaway in this game is about predicting your opponent’s movements.
Doom has plenty of options to cover all approaches.
Teleport, rocks. Jump, shot/missiles. After shot, hit them with missiles or another shot then array. Keepaway in this game is about prediction.
AvariceX, that 2mil combo at the end was fantastic, nice work!
Zero can easily do 900k with DHC into anybody after his standard bnb’s. If that’s not high damage I dont know what is.
If you compare their chances of getting hit, by the time you actually land a clean hit on Zero he could have easily cleaned up 2 characters. The problem with hitting Zero is that there’s no way to hit him especially with an assist covering that wont get you killed. You just have to hope he whiffs something. There’s no dive kick that you can wave dash behind or guard cancel and although his normals are really good that still at least have some type of vulnerable hit box.
Zero doesn’t need an instant overhead IMO because once he gets in and jumps forward at you he has a mix up where he can either double overhead you or triple overhead you based on when he presses H. He has a bunch of coin drop style 4 way mix ups with his j.H with an assist covering easily.
j.:d::h: instant-overheads on Sentinel, Tron, MODOK, and Hulk, and you can combo off it on all of them except Tron. It’s not very fast though so I don’t know how “instant” you can call it. Other than that you would have to rely on TK feints.
im just saying its better to have versatility and i think iron man can do both really well even tho magneto is better at rush and doom is a better zoner iron man is like both just not as strong at both
How is that different from any other game? You can’t just flowchart to keep people out unless you’re playing Magneto.
Doom just isn’t very good at it. Just as an example, to react to a teleport he has to be doing nothing, which is a bad idea if you’re playing keep away.
My Zero BnB Currently working on a Trish engine CMV, this is a snip.
Most of the time, tagging Dante is not even necessary. On the <1200 health characters, you generally end up with 0.2-1.5 extra meter.
Fun fact: you can start that combo from Low Voltage>TK Cross up Lightning dive M. Set up is hella ambiguous. Sometimes zero is in the animation but hasn’'t yet crossed up, sometimes he has.
Just so people notice… that was done off 0 bar. Fairly easy too.
I would argue (and I think most would agree) that both Doom and Mageto have better rushdown AND keepaway than IM.
the thing is that iron man has a far easier time opening somebody up than doom can by quite a stretch
just saying
ok Magneto as of right now Yea he’s better then Iron man that much i will concede (only with the current state of the game) BUT DOOM o no i will argue against that doom is great i really like doom but i believe iron man is just better
Doom’s keepaway doesn’t really do much but buy him time to set up his offense. Ideally you have to use your projectiles as a way to cover your rushdown so you can get in more safely. Air plasma beam isn’t bad for trying to score some free damage safely from the air and air photon shot covers you so you can air dash down forward and start an offense. You can’t use Dr.Doom’s projectiles to literally keep people out for long period of time. There’s too much recovery on all all of his projectiles for that to be possible.
I main Dr.Doom and have seen enough of Mags and Iron Man play to make an assessment on the 3. Overall Mags is easily the best of the 3. He doesn’t have high priority ground normals like Iron Man but he makes up for it by having a normal cancellable dash so he can apply pressure easily once he gets in and set up throws and mix up. He moves a bit faster than even Iron Man although for the most part they can create a high low game just about as effectively. The main thing that keeps Mags on top is he can build 2 meters by himself and has the best throw game of any of them. Any throw he lands can build him pretty much 2 meters and kill people with level 3 or DHC glitch setup. He also has the best reset game of the 3 so he doesn’t even really need to spend meter to kill you. He can just MVC2 you to death. Strangely also has the best zoning game of the 3 which is stupid since he also has the best offense of the 3…
Iron Man wins in the normal department of the 3. Has a 4 frame j.L, 7 frame c.M with a hit box that can’t be hit by anything once its active, a controllable j.H that can’t be touched by anything with the right spacing…when people get strong with Iron Man it’s going to be hard to play a spacing game against him without getting yourself in trouble. The only thing really holding Iron Man back IMO (if you dont count execution because I’m not the type of person that does), is the fact that Magneto does more damage than he does and can set up DHC glitch. His air mobility game while a bit weird allows him to put shit on the screen and high low quickly just like any other air dash character. He’s also like Dr.Doom in that pretty much all of his assists are buff and have use.
I main Doom so I’d have the most immediate input on Doom. probably has the worst ground normal game of the 3. This is mainly because he is not allowed to cancel his dashes into normals and he only has one crouch normal with any range and one stand normal with any range for ground poking that isn’t insanely slow. His c.L is really good since it’s basically Magneto’s c.L with like twice the range. It’s just without the ability to dash in and use it like Magneto your options are more limited. His s.M is a 2 hit normal with strong priority but again…unless you actually get in you’re not making a lot of use of it.
Where Doom shines is mainly in his versatility in his projectile game, his ability to cancel his normals into dashes, one of the only characters in the game that has all beastly assists and his surprisingly effective air normal game. He has a lot of ways to lame out for limited periods of time with staggering of hidden missles on point, photon shots covering those hidden missles, if he has a lot of meter covering his ground plasma beams with sphere flames or photon arrays to keep out longer and using his air photon shots to set up air dash ins. His ability to cancel his normals into dashes means once he gets in as long as he is making good reads on your advance guard he’s just going to stay on you and push you into the corner where he gets TOD combos easily. The fact that he has all powerful, useful assists means he has synergy on pretty much any team and is easy to safely DHC into and out of. If you can’t find an assist for Doom that helps out your team something is wrong. Finally his air normal game is surprisingly effective. Clockwork has been figuring out ways to convert his f+H foot dive into combos which is great since he is forced to jump before dashing which usually makes him prone to air throws. His foot dive in general helps him get across the screen and he can cancel into any of his air moves at any time.
His air M is easily his best air normal and one of the best air normals in the game. It’s about 10 frame start up, hits twice and is active for 7 frames. Once it’s out no ground pokes can win against it and it’s fairly solid air to air also. Using it with his super jumps he can create ambiguous high low games especially since he can make the second hit whiff and hit you low. Once Doom actually gets in he can open you up pretty good just on that alone. On top of all of that he has a surprisingly scary XF game where he gains an 830k damage level 1, a guard cancel level 3 that punishes c.L’s on block and an improved heavy gun game which controls the ground and sets up combos rather easily at close range.
With all of that Mags is definitely the best of the 3 but Iron Man and Doom are very capable characters for their own reasons. Mags is just the best of the 3 period but Iron Man and Doom both have their own strengths and are both great assist characters that are very effective on point also. Other strong assist characters tend to lack in tools and ability to close the gap once they get put on point but Iron Man and Doom are very capable of getting in and hurting people on point and can play projectile wars if needed.