Zero does alot of stuff Wolverine doesn’t. In fact, because of zeros versatility I would say he’s a much better character than Wolverine overall. Wolvie only does one thing, but he’s the best at what he does. 
Once again, you team really determines which character is better.
I think Zero beats Wolverine so that alone makes a reason to use him. Wolverine can press shit on everybody EXCEPT Zero. His normals are just as fast except they can’t be touched by physical attacks so that basically shuts Wolverine the fuck out. Can’t even dive kick or gets cut up by swords.
I think Dante does pretty decent against Wolverine unless he closes the gap since he’s poking game is basically Zero’s but slower and longer. If you let Wolvie get in you’re kinda fucked but with an assist you got tools to stall him out a bit plus hammer if you’re scared.
Zero is much, much better than Wolverine. I hear that they have the same gameplan all the time but really the important difference is that Zero doesn’t have to stick to it. He has very effective keepaway that is really underutilized in general and can run mixup from any angle. Yes it takes effort to play Zero to his full potential but really it’s nothing difficult enough you could even consider calling impractical. Zero’s assists aren’t very good (neither are Wolverine’s), but having Zero on the sidelines with enough meter is still a huge threat because blocking anything (even full screen beam supers) leads into crossover-counter > GENMU ZERO BITCHES.
I’m also getting real tired of hearing that he has trouble getting in alone. He has no more trouble getting in alone than any other member of the cast without a teleport. He’s got a small hitbox, a fast walk speed, an air-dash, and 7 different command dashes (although 1 of which is completely impractical in virtually every situation). Whatever happened to just walking forward and looking for an opening? Then he has the best projectile in the game that takes no special input whatsoever making it as easy to react with as a normal poke and it leads into character kill combos from full screen. Oh, Zero’s normals are kinda good too… I run Doom purely for his assist to help me get in, but the frequency that I land a combo with Zero and am able to call Doom assist to extend the combo tells me I absolutely don’t necessarily need help to open someone up.
I can’t agree with Zero requiring a dedicated team either. If you run him on point there are lots of great characters to pair with him: Dormammu, Dante, Sentinel, Ammy, Doom, Magneto, Wesker (or any low hitting assist), and a special case for Phoenix, and lots of less common characters who actually have pretty good synergy with him (Felicia, Skrull, Chun for instance). Running him second gives you access to the best DHC glitch finisher anywhere on screen (with the possible exception of Dante+Ammy). I wouldn’t recommend running him third, but he is VERY fast in XF3 and gets access to really stupid tools like Sougenmu projectile block-infinites, so if he’s ever stuck as your third he is more than capable of running it back.
I agree and disagree lol. He definitely has all the tools necessary to be in the top tier but I disagree about the dedicated team. I think without a dedicated team you are wasting his full potential. Wolverine is completely different in that regard. He doesn’t care who the battery is, who the anchor is, and honestly Akuma is not necessary to be successful. Wolverine’s only advantage truly is damage however I think.
Zero’s match-ups are the second most favorable in the game IMO next to Ammy. Which makes him an extreme threat. I will go into detail about my Zero opinions in way more detail sooner or later. I am thinking of making a few articles about some team constructions.
Zero is actually capable of more damage than Wolverine (not considering XFactor here because everyone kills everyone with it) while building more meter. Oh, and silly me I forgot Akuma is also really good with Zero; Iron Man too.
The reason Wolverine rushdown is better than Zero’s is that he can enforce a mixup from 3/4 a screen away, Zero has to get close first. Though I would argue his options once up close are better. Also, don’t underestimate Zero’s zoning game, that charged buster is pretty ridiculous. Landing it once gets you in, and if they block it it gets you closer.
Zero’s full potential isn’t reached without a “dedicated” team IMO. With the right assists, his damage output doubles, his mixups become unseeable, his lockdowns become inescapable, and everything he lacks is available to him, except health. I think he’s one of the best characters in the game when his full potential is reached, but that’s very hard to be.
Just like I said and I agree 100%
In a combo. You can’t just consider combo damage. Combos get dropped because of nerves and spacing. A lot of damage comes from pokes often. Wolverine just does more damage in general, not exactly combos.
what Toaster said…damn i hate zero :bluu:
Personally, if I were doing a tier list for this game I would divide the tiers up like so:
Characters that are always amazing: (eg: Magneto, Dante, Pheonix, Viper)
Characters that are amazing with a little help: (eg: zero, Wolvie, storm)
Characters that are amazing helpers: (Doom, Tron, Sent)
Characters that are simply outclassed, but not bad: (eg: Iron Man, Jill, Thor)
Characters that are not good: (eg: Hsien-Ko, Ryu)
The fact that Zero needs an assist to get in should literally not make a difference, same with Wolverine. You have those guys at #1 or #2 for a reason, so they can use assists.
It’s hard to make tiers in team games for this reason. For example, in every MvC2 tier list (that I’ve seen, at least) Strider is listed as top, but it always says “Only with Doom assist.” Zero by himself is probably not the best in the game, but with the assists he needs coughJamSessionCOUGH then he could rise to the top. Same with things like Wolverine/Akuma or She-Hulk/Tron or Magneto/Wesker. Characters get stronger when paired with characters that work with them. But like you say, this shouldn’t make a difference. If a character can use assists to make them amazing, then they are a stronger character for it. The fact that they are weaker without their best friend shouldn’t put them lower on the tiers IMO, because if you’re going to use them at their best, you’re going to have their best assists anyway.
Piskoo’s list up above is really good. I think people need to also not focus so much on Top 5 - there a ton of competitive teams that are running mid-tier or upper-tier characters with weaknesses that are covered by their teammates. The fact that the individual characters aren’t top tier doesn’t make the team any less deadly.
Combofiend’s team is a great example. Justin Wong’s team is a great example. PR Balrog’s team is another good example.
Top tier chars should be chars that go on the most teams aka don’t have to build a team just for them. Why the bitch, nutjob, Agent Smith, and the old man need to be there. All four deserve to be there due to there team versatility.
High needs to be where chars who require one good assist goes and upper mid where those who require two solid assists to be awesome go.
Zero in high due to he needs a cover assist and Logan in upper mid due to the fact he needs an assist to protect him/open them up/cover him. Beam assist can cover two of those.
Let people flame me now.
That’s how I approached it originally. I thought the characters with the most “complete” game would be top tier, and the rest would be lower, but there are big exceptions to it. Wolverine, She-Hulk and Zero have big holes in their game that assists fill, but they wind up being top tier after assists anyhow because their rushdown is that good. Tron on her own sucks, but her assist is enough to make teams she’s on very very competitive despite all her weaknesses.
The fact that a character needs assists doesn’t make them lower tier if they suddenly become ridiculous with them. For instance, Hulk needs assists to get in. Then what happens once he does? Not a lot. That’s lower tier.
That’s a really good point actually.
All in all, the fact that teams are so much more important than characters makes an actual tier list hard to do. We can all agree on who’s good and who isn’t but actually ranking them is nigh impossible.
Dark Phoenix is really the only character in the game that can be considered “top tier” regardless of team build. Yeah, having a team which maximizes meter building is lovely and all, but that’s hardly the point. If the other player has a full team and is up against DPh, you don’t know who’s going to win.
Other than that, every other character in the game “needs” assists to some degree.
Hulk needs a projectile assist more so and assists to cover him from characters who have insane attack speed and multi hitting normals. Hulk you have to play a more patient game with the gamma charges forward back and up and down. Use the charges to make your opponent to whiff attacks then punish them. He also has the insane frame traps in the corner. He gets you there, let the shit fly.
And the uber assists do need to go in upper mid due to versatility. How MvC2 tier lists went.
Not true; Phoenix limits your team build much more than any other character does. You must have at least 1 battery in your team that don’t need hypers to deal good damage and you must support them with a good assist character. With that the amount of characters you can choose from is already extremely limited.
In MvC2 assists are a lot more broken and the top tier characters are also a lot more broken. You can afford to have Cap Com in your team and not know how to fight **** with him cause you more or less have won already the moment you kill your opponent’s Sentinel/Storm/Magneto/Cable, except in rare comeback situations. You don’t have that luxury in MvC3,