It’s obvious that they made Dante’s normals “slower” so that it’s easier to frame trap him but he still can push block out like anyone else to save himself sometimes from trouble. Generally the main issue with Dante is that weakness Capcom gave him really is moot when you consider the trouble everyone has to go through to even get that close to Dante to begin with. Then of course his 305 ways to end you when he hits you.
Thor was put in due to the fact he was wanted and he is pretty big in comics. And Thor is not shitty. Has trouble against upper tiers but who the fuck doesn’t? They have trouble with themselves.
There are a few ways to get in on Dante at relatively little risk, though.
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If someone is using Dante on point, just hold forward at the start of the round. This is a really bad situation for Dante, and why I avoid using him on point.
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Call an assist while you space yourself away from it, and move in. Dante has real trouble punishing assist calls since any one of his 4000 ranged moves don’t hit particularly fast or hard. His best answers to something like fullscreen Sentinel drones are Stinger -> Million Stab -> Bold Cancel, which is pretty much death for him if you happen to jump over it after calling Sent, and jump back charge Air Play fireball, which takes an entire second and change to get out, giving you plenty of time to hit him or cross him up or what have you. Fireworks is another option, but it takes way too long to startup from neutral that you can’t do it on reaction to assist calls…
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Bad matchups tend to be characters who can get in easily. From the top 10 alone: Zero (with or without assist over), Wesker (with assist cover), Magneto (runaway or rushdown w/assist), and Wolverine (lol) are some very frustrating characters for slow-hitting Dante to deal with, since they can get in with relative ease and just ruin him with fast normals and mixups. Dog can be rough too, but it’s harder for it to get in and it’s not particularly threatening at fullscreen.
Sycho, with 3 prejump frames and massive speed bonus in X-factor getting out if the Dante understands spacing at all is a very difficult attempt. Was testing it tonight in matches and it’s incredibly bloody scary.
I was testing it in training mode against a Sentinel and a Dante at point blank, as well as from the top-back of the screen. So long as they don’t Advancing Guard, they can jump out every time, even if enemy Dante is in XF3. It’s just a matter of being aware of it, is all. Outside of the being caught landing from a jump or something like that, how do you think you could space it so that you can’t hold up-back to get out?
Spiderman. I’ve frequently seen him on the low end of tier lists. Why is that?
I think if spidey is played smart, utilizing all his tools, he can beat pretty much anyone (except maybe the dog and dante or mags). He can certainly stop wolvie with a well timed web, or grab trish out of the air with a good web throw.
I’d rank him as B tier TBH.
Thoughts?
^No one’s ranked high in tournies with him nor have shown any crazy tech that makes him solid. He might have the potential, but right now he seems lacking.
What is this? 1992? Play to win.
The only thing that’s REALLY cheap is level 3 XF. Phoenix wins because your little cousin can be a champ with level 3 XF Dark Phoenix. Dark Phoenix without XF is basically worse than regular Phoenix without XF and even she is pretty beatable compared to level 3 D.P. Which other level 3 XF characters are also completely broken and only balanced by they are only available for up to 20 seconds. With Dark Phoenix it’s more of an issue because you have to fight 3 characters just to get to a broken version of Dark Phoenix that competitively shouldn’t be active in the game for 20 seconds. It’s a joke to competitive fighting games to watch any level 3 XF character run around on screen let alone Dark Phoenix
If you think Sent drones or Wesker assist unblockables are THAT cheap then you probably haven’t played any other fighting games competitively. Marvel is supposed to be about cheap but Sent drones (if you’re talking about the assist) can be stopped by any attack that hits Sent before the drones hit you. All you see lately on streams is Sentinel dying in one hit because they called Sent drones at a bad time ONE TIME (thx to the really helpful idea of nerfing his health). Wesker assist can be chicken blocked or guess blocked since it’s not even a true unblockable. A true unblockable is not something you can quick high low block or chicken block to get out of.
The only true unblockables are like Viper’s focus unblockable when set up with an assist or X23’s dirt nap when set up with assist. Those types of unblockables are pretty damn cheap but they require set up usually after one character is KO’d. X23 is pretty much designed around killing people in this manner and at high level play eventually you probably wont see X23 being played without some assist that sets up instant death for the next character coming in.
My thoughts above in bold.
I think competitive teams involve a few things:
[LIST=1]
[]They are built to run Phoenix, or they have answers to Phoenix. Answers include - good mix-up and pressure with ways to snap her in and kill her early, or characters that can hang with her later. Obviously no one’s at an advantage against her, but some characters have better odds than others.
[]They can one-hit kill, either through the DHC glitch or through monster combos. For instance, if you consistently hit your full Viper/Taskmaster/Dante BNB’s, you don’t need the DHC glitch.
[*]They aren’t comprised of anchor characters that can get lamed out easily. Some characters can’t get to the top of the screen, or catch-up to someone running away. Don’t get stuck in this position.
[/LIST]
If you’re missing 1 or 3, you might just get bumped into Losers or out of a tournament for no reason with an otherwise strong team.
Is Wesker really top tier? If he is top tier then why isn’t he used more often by J Wong, Combofiend and Co? The only good Wesker players seem to be Viscant and ChrisG. At the moment I am not convinced that Wesker is any higher in the tier list than Storm, he just doesn’t seem to have that brokenness factor in him.
Sych, it works best when you give people incentive to chicken block then TK straight into it at around crouch B range or so I’ve found.
Well it’s mainly because most of the characters are good enough where they dont have to go to Wesker to win. Most of the middle of the pack in tournaments runs Wesker and most do because he’s probably the most self sufficient character in the game on point next to Phoenix. Even when he doesn’t have an assist backing him up you have to legitimately fear him and he has one of the hardest to deal with level 3 XF’s in the game. When Wesker is with an assist you’re basically never in a situation where you can’t get in trouble. He calls assist, shoots gun and teleports and he’s in your face and you have to deal with it. Plus he has a one frame command grab he can mix in anytime during his block pressure that leads to 400k plus combos and a reset opportunity for another combo. He can’t really kill you in one combo without level 3 super but he’s extremely good at setting up resets which can kill people just as easily and end up saving you meter to kill other characters later.
Even without assist he loses a bit of safeness with his teleport game but then he still has one of the game’s best wave dashes, a gun that keeps people from jumping or tri dashing, crazy good normals that are safe on block and a 1 frame command grab that he can kara to extend the range to about the range of his c.L. Oh and he has 1.1 million health which is absurd for what he is capable of. Chris has 1.1 million health and can’t do any of that shit with or without an assist. He’s a lot like Magneto in that once he gets in your face unless you do something smart really fast you’re going to get hit, guaranteed. Not to mention his gun effectively shuts down a lot of the aerial offense in the game. Which is why the only characters he has trouble with are characters that can wave dash under his gun. Which even then as long as he has an assist he can call an assist and the teleport to at least buy him time away from them.
Then why isn’t Wesker one of those “good enough” characters? That’s my point, it’s like Wesker is good enough to make you middle of the pack in tournaments but not exactly good enough to be a top 4 character that so many people make him out to be.
Wesker is one of those good enough characters. It’s just the game has so much variety in who is good that you dont have to pick who on paper has the most going for them. It’s more than clear when you fight a good Wesker that he just has what he needs to stay within the top 5 for a long time. Especially being a Wesker player myself it’s just when you play the character you never feel you are in a bad situation. Even when you lose it’s obvious that there’s something you could have done to win. That’s the sign of a really good character.
If you’re just looking at what “the good people are picking” then She Hulk and Spencer are top tier and people would pretty much argue you down for days as to why both of them aren’t top tier.
You’ll notice the best players don’t always pick the best characters. Many just pick characters that are legitimately competitive that work well with their playstyle. Combofiend and his team are a good example of that.
Wesker is #1 if you go by the amount of teams that use him and place highly:
Wesker:
Viscant - Wesker/Ironman/Phoenix
Yipes - Magneto/Wesker/Akuma
Noel - Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma
Chris G - Amaterasu/Wesker/Ryu
Masta CJ - Dormammu/Wesker/Magneto
Jago - Wesker/Dante/Trish
Josh Wong - Dante/Magneto/Wesker
Magneto:
Yipes - Magneto/Wesker/Akuma
Masta CJ - Dormammu/Wesker/Magneto
Josh Wong - Dante/Magneto/Wesker
MarlinPie - C.Viper/Magneto/Amaterasu
Marn - Magneto/Zero/Sentinel
Dante:
Jago - Wesker/Dante/Trish
Josh Wong - Dante/Magneto/Wesker
10stars - Dante/X-23/Tron
Felax - Dante/X-23/Dormammu
NerdJosh - She-Hulk/Dante/Tron
Compared to…
She-Hulk:
NerdJosh - She-Hulk/Dante/Tron
Combofiend - She-Hulk/Taskmaster/Spencer
C.Viper:
MarlinPie - C.Viper/Magneto/Amaterasu
Chrisis - C.Viper/Amaterasu/Taskmaster
I could look up more but I don’t think it matters. I didn’t add Floe or Justin since they’re always changing teams.
Woah, has Nerd Josh fully abandoned Taskmaster now for Dante? I thought he was just trying him out but damn!
Speaking of team models that I see ATM
God tier teams
Magneto/DHC Trick Ender/Sentinel or Taskmaster… Dime a Dozen team now but still extremely effective
She-Hulk/(Dante/Ammy/Taskmaster/Dormammu)/Tron… Team needs to run with Dante or Dormammu to counter Phoenix IMHO but otherwise is super super solid
Wesker/(Doom Magneto Taskmaster Dante or Iron Man)/Phoenix aka the “Classic” Phoenix team
Awesome Tier teams
Wesker/Trish/someone…a non DHC trick TOD team if you play your cards right can be almost as annoying as fighting a Phoenix team due to Trish’s Runaway
Taskmaster/Dante/someone as known as “The New Team Scrub” or Genghis’s B-team, Super Solid extremely damaging regular DHCs
Wesker or Zero/projectile assist/Dante or Akuma… very similar to
Wolvie/(Akuma or Taskmaster)/Sentinel… team “No weaknesses here, bub.”
… and I can’t think of too many more but those are some of the common place ones I see
He played him all of Guard Crush from what I saw and sp00ky was talking about him wanting to switch for a while. He’s got some cool THC combos that I’ve recently stolen.