I would also add Deadpool and Taskmaster to the characters with effective zoning. If I had to draw a common thread among all of these characters it’s that between their mobility and/or projectile angles they can control a most of the screen with minimal effort. I would also say that I think part of the reason that a lot of the zoning characters have problems in this game is for two reasons:
Their projectile(s) get badly beaten out speed-wise by Magneto’s disruptor.
The recovery on their projectiles allows for the games numerous teleporting characters to get in on them too easily.
I think that the issue with Viewtiful God Hand is that most of the time you’d rather just kill them and not try to get gimmicky. I’m not saying tha VHG is a bad move or that the set-ups your theorizing aren’t good it’s just that the damage in this game is so high that there are easier ways to come by damage.
The only thing I’m really like WTF about when it comes to those characters is Magneto. I want to know what logic they were using that Magneto’s L beam needed to be 7 frame start up. That’s like the speed of a c.L or M. Just the frames alone make it so it’s the only version of the disruptah you ever have to use. If you are using M or H disruptah, it’s probably to troll. His H disruptah has a bit more projectile durability but starts up 10 frames slower and is only 2 frames faster in recovery. You’ll trade that for 7 frames start up any day.
At least with Wesker’s gun it has 15 frame start up before it launches super fast across the screen and there’s at least another 10 to 15 frames before he can teleport. It’s also easily wave dashed under by most of the pixie types like X23, Felicia and even Wesker himself. Magneto’s disruptah stops all wave dashes within 7 frames. Retarded. I dont see the reason to pick Arthur as long as Magneto has a 7 frame beam. He can be just as annoying as Arthur defensively while stlll being able to wreck your shit in the close range.
Akuma is pretty braindead with meter sitting on safe air beams but other than that there’s not really much he can just spam. Tatsu/air tatsu is day one shit that everyone knows how to punish now. Maybe it’s difficult to punish that shit online but you go spamming air tatsu offline and get c.L/c.M’d all day. Sentinel is braindead until you play against someone that knows how to fight him and knows you’re generally not scary if you whiff anything ever. Taskmaster is pretty legit braindead because he has a 6 frame c.M that reaches halfway across the screen with a wave dash. He doesn’t have much of a mix up game but all he really cares about is spamming around crazy fast long ranged normals that lead to 800k on hit. Hulk…same thing as Sentinel. He’s easy till you play against someone that doesn’t press buttons every 2 seconds.
Tron is in the same boat as well. On point people are actually afraid of the fact that like the one thing she can do to scare you is spam around air H. I watch tournament streams and still see like Weskers at 8 on the break get blown up by Tron air H spam. He has like 30 anti airs for that shit. Her air H is braindead till people realize they can do something about it.
A lack of zoning strategies especially for actual zoning characters(arthur, modok, domammu, ect.) is why this game is so one-sided. that shit’s not fun at all. What the fuck were they thinking with the damage output and matrix-like speed of this game? What’s the point of zoning when high damage comes sooooo easy and getting in is like snapping your fingers? Then you have this game that easily claims the award for high % of reverse OCVs. How is this shit still being taken seriously? Why, because it’s a Capcom fighter? People are that desperate to play a new Capcom fighter or they just like the spazz/gimmick-like mechanics that allow them to compete without the effort it takes to win like in a real fighting game? This shit’s a joke.
Sentinel is top braindead, look everywhere, all stream, matches and so on. He requires not that much of execution, does monster damage, and has stupid as fuck xfactor. He is easy. And he wins games ALOT more than people say he does.
Oh yeah, Tron… pretty braindead too, but abit “harder” than the one i mentionned.
Also, call me a dick, but i think Deadpool is pretty braindead to use. Zone all game with easy tools, then DHC glitch… or infinite if you are anchor (which is not that good with Deadpool but ok).
Ryu is average as a character, but remains Ryu : solid health pool, straight forward gameplay… You can’t go wrong with him.
Spencer is a bit harder then these characters, but not that much really. Same for Dormammu to be honest.
Haggar is on the same league as these two - but not as easy as Hulk.
Rest is average, even Magneto is medium on the skill needed. Same for Dante, you will drop combo but in the end you can abuse standing Medium and teleport. and DHC.
The only HARD characters to play are obvious : Hsien-Ko (sucks), C Viper (second hardest), Morrigan, Modok (hardest: needs alot of thinking, execution and gameplan).
Chris on point, haggar lariat, plant mine, watch what happens.
Zoners work via control. its doable but it just doesn’t work on the top tiers. hence why they’re top tier. you just have to know when you can do your zoners full on zone game and when it’s time to straight runaway or look for a tagout opportunity to someone who is better suited to deal with that top tier character
might as well throw Haggar in there his combos are easy as pie
Sentinel is top tier braindead just because of that retarded x factor 3
Sentinel is braindead against people that blindly attack him all day but that’s about it. The two moves that most average Sentinels rely on (c.M and S) are both terrible on whiff and are probably his worst moves period. The fact that people still complain about those normals 2 months in is hilarious. His s.L and s.M have way more utility but of course are rarely used by anyone but top Sents like Marn.
The fact that SmoothViper still has no idea how to use hard drive just shows how much people still need to step their shit up even with Sentinel. He is very effective and safe as long as he stays in the air but he still can’t block in the air and his air normals still have slow start up and prone to other junp normals or air throws. Sentinel pretty much has to sit on hard drive while in the air to be a legit threat in tournaments. Anything else is liable to be whiff punished easily. Sure lvl 3 XF Sent is hella annoying but so is lvl 3 XF Wesker, lvl 3 XF Wolverine, lvl 3 XF Felicia, lvl 3 XF Phoenix, lvl3 XF Dorm, lvl 3 XF Magneto is even a big threat. At least 3 of those characters IMO have just as scary or scarier level 3 XF’s than Sent.
XF is retarded period. It’s not just Sentinel that’s stupid in it. At least 30 percent of the cast is just as stupid comeback easy in the lvl 3 XF.
With your logic Hsien Ko being hard to use is arguable because Airtola wins tournaments with her on the team without using her for much anything but the assist. You could just say “on he just presses armor assist with task normals and wins”.
Tasky’s cr.M is actually 8 frames, but yeah, he’s pretty dumb. Dunno why he has so much health, can zone and still do over a million damage by himself starting with 0 bar, lol. That’s a little ridiculous.
And he has a sword.
I’d like to nominate zero as braindead, or at least as a priority whore. I hate seeing some dumbshit play him and watch them combo off the weirdest shit. Nothing like having Zero turn around 4 times in a row in an anti-air ground chain because all his attacks hit behind him as well.
Shit is beyond dumb. I’m also not of a fan of anti-air jabs into full combo. Who thought that was a good idea? The whole concept of spacing when attempting your combos goes completely out the window. That shit would never have worked in MvC2, just makes the game even more herp derp for characters like Wesker.
You guys use the word brain dead too much. No character is really brain dead, the better words for it is easy to use. The characters that are easier to use will automatically be very good. I thought Zero was pretty easy to use at first until you start learning the buster and raikousen (lightning) loops in the corner, that crap is downright hard but so very useful. Out of all the characters I think Zero has improved the most.
IMO the only thing legitimately hard about using Zero is that his speed is a bit outmatched by some of the other pixie types and his execution. Of course here a lot of people will use combo execution as an excuse for difficult to play but someone who has their execution down with Zero can just spam normals left or right and there’s nothing strategically you can do. You literally just have to run around and hope he whiffs one of them in a good spot. People complain about Sent armor but at least those moves have whiff recovery. Zero has like 4 and 6 frame start up normals that can’t be touched any way. Especially when he’s sitting on charged buster that hard knockdowns or whatever the fuck on hit and gives crazy advantage on block. The only thing strategic about fighting with or against Zero is that he dies in one solid combo.
It’s kinda funny that they made a character like Zero and then they were like “ok lets have X23 and Felicia have 30-50k more health since they dont have untouchable swords”.
About X-Factor vs Baroque, touches of death, combo breakers, etc:
It’s hard to find a solution for MvC3 problems when people go for “LOL LEARN TO PLAY” as an argument. If you don’t even want to discuss, why should anyone care about your opinion?
“If you put ** insert a mechanic here ** on MvC3, I’ll stop playing!!!” … are you really that arrogant to not even try the change before say it sucks? And if you are, again, why should anyone care about your opinion?
I don’t see how combo breakers will ruin the game. If you are as pr0 as you think you are, you’ll not allow the opponent to build the meters needed to use a combo breaker.
If your opponent needs to “L2P!!! QQ MOAR!!!” because he’s dying by one combo, why are you so afraid to hit two or three combos instead just one?
If one mistake = death is ok, why championships’ finals are always “3 out of 5”? Why some fighting games have 2 or 3 rounds per match? Why there are health meters, in first place?!
There isn’t much that needs to be done to make the game more solid. It’s a 3 on 3 game. You can’t have rounds or combo breakers, game would last forever. All they need to do is tone down the herp derp damage on Wolverine and tone down lvl 3 XF and much better game happens.
Every character dies in one solid combo (New Viper B&B kills Thor for a little over 1 starting gauge ^.^ Damn execution. >.< ). Zero has a lot of easy things with him, but he can do more sophisticated things that people just aren’t doing. Buster shot is beyond amazing and for some reason doesn’t follow the 3 specials per jump law that effects most characters and their specials. People running into his jump C has to be the biggest thing that makes him feel easy. It’s like Sentinel where a lot of Zeros haven’t moved on to his better options simply because they can jump C and get a hit in a lot of situations where other characters would have to be a bit more discerning. Zero’s ability to turn a space control game into a combo is very high and he can either build or use meter depending on what he needs to do. Sougenmu can have a lot of roles on a team and be incredibly useful as an assist or DHC situation allowing a lot of very strong BS. I think Zero is very good, but held back by a heavy reliance on assists if he wants to be offensive. Otherwise I think he’s an amazing character.
I’m amazed that you guys don’t consider Wesker braindead and easy to use. he’s as easy as wolverine. someone above was complaining about taskmasters health look at weskers lol and all of his options. you guys are hilarious.
If they increased the damage of individual moves across the board and reduced the maximum length of combos, there would be fewer time outs and keepaway/zoning/footsies would become more valid strategies. Combo breakers would be less powerful and, therefore, more reasonable to have in the game. I agree that they wouldn’t work very well with the game as-is, especially since you’ll probably build the bar you need to Megacrash just from being comboed. I’m a little biased, though, since I’m not a big fan of long combos, anyway. I’d probably waste all my bars on Megacrashing because I’m bored.