MvC3 Actual Balance/Potential Tiers Discussion

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
21

SSF4 tiers were up a few weeks after the game launched… A thread to discuss how powerful you think certain characters and teams are seems like a good idea…

and no one ever wants to post in my fucking strategy thread which is perfect for that kind of thing. :sad:

Uhh… X-23, Skrull and MODOK aren’t gimmicky.

Anyways, I think we should really start breaking characters down if we’re going to have this discussion, why you think they’re good, why you think they’re bad, what other people think of what you think, and so on. Just posting up a random tier list with no real information does us no good.

22

Tron, Phoenix, and Storm low tier?

whatthefuckamireading.jpg

23

SSF4 was a continuation of SF4 which was out for 2 years. We already had baseline knowledge of characters and how things fared in the SF4 series, so it was only a matter of moving characters up and down. The 10 new characters shouldn’t have been placed at all until after EVO (for…obvious reasons…).

Difference here is we have 36 (well, now 38) new characters for a new game. Tier discussion won’t be truly constructive until we have a firm handle on the game, which won’t be for at LEAST a month more if not longer. Again, true tier talk should probably wait until after EVO.

24

Gonna disagree entirely. There probably won’t be an accurate tier list until after evo, sure. But to bar even discussing it? Bull. Though as I said, I think we need better methodology

25

M.O.D.O.K. and Thor are EXTREMELY underrated. That is all.

26

I didn’t say bar or ban it. The shit will happen regardless. But it should be relegated to GenDis in the mean time at the LEAST.

27

I dunno how I feel about individual character discussion. Some characters become really scary with the right assists while some characters remain more or less the same.

Then there’s assist to rank as well, there might be some really good for specific teams and characters and others that are just well rounded to put anywhere.

There’s a lot of factors and variables to consider. How do you guys begin to think this out?

28

The main reason I can see keeping this open is because if this one gets closed down, then another will keep popping up until one finally stays open. So I think it’s better and I don’t see whats wrong to just have one thread for every one to talk about tiers and balance. Even if 90% of what people say is wrong, at least then its all in one thread

29

You discuss it! Talk about how a character works and which assists help him. Defining a tier list overall isn’t something easy to do in a game like this, but obviously requiring assists is a detriment, but not a huge one if those assists cover weaknesses… assist strength is important. Probably just figure out some “overall value to team” type thing ala MvC2. and then separately discuss notable point characters, assists, anchors, etc.

30

You forgot to add:

DISCLAMER: I have no fucking idea what I am talking about, and my experience with the vast majority of these characters is seeing one or two matches on youtube.

I think that should go at the top of your little tier list.:rolleyes:

31

My Tier List

Retarded Tier
Sentinel
Phoenix
Wolvie
Zero

Good/Viable Tier
Everyone besides Captain America

Roll Tier
Captain America :frowning:

32

Seems reasonable, though some things I would change:

High

Skrull
Phoenix

Middle

Wesker
Tron
Storm

Low

Ryu
VJ
MODOK
Felica
Hsien-Ko
Thor

Keep in mind, some people require 10 years and won’t make up their mind saying nothing but bull crap without giving any opinions. Saying balance or auto balance is a waste of breathe, the game is what it is.

This is basically a tier list without relying on assist. Often just use Morigan’s SP buff.

33

I always hated tier list.

34

If Capcom deserved one props, it’s for making the roster fairly balanced.

IMO, a character would only be considered low tier if we haven’t seen much of them in light yet (example: Viewtiful Joe and MODOK). I am not convinced these are weak characters yet.

I think it’s a bit early, it’s just a popularity contest atm.

35

A topic of discussion being brought up repeatedly indicates that it requires its own thread. The idea that tiers cannot be discussed right now outside of the general miscellaneous thead is absurd.

36

In no order within hierarchies
**List A: Characters I continuously see dominate no matter the matchup:
**Magneto, Amaterasu, Phoenix, Wesker, Dante

**List B+: Characters that are really great but have some difficulties (esp against list A)
**Storm, Wolvie, Trish, Sent, Akuma. Taskmaster, Zero

**List B: Characters that I’ve seen body people in the right hands, but have some matchup problems
**She Hulk, Spencer, Dormammu, Morrigan, Chun, X-23

**List C: Characters that are pretty good on point, but have some issues (i.e. damage/speed)
**Doom, Hulk, Tron, Felicia, Deadpool

**List D: Characters that have some serious match-up problems, but can be effective on the right team
**Arthur, MODOK, Hsien-Ko, CapAm, Iron Man, Skrull, Spider-Man, Chris

**List F: Characters that I continuously see getting bodied
**Thor, Haggar, Ryu, Joe, C.Viper

Bonus: Best assists in the game!
1.Tron Flame
2. Sent Drones
3. Hidden Missles
4. Wesker Low Shot
5. Akuma Tatsu
6. Hsien-Ko’s Armored Pendulum
7. Haggar’s Lariat
8. Dante Jam Session
9. Ammy Cold Star
10. Chun Legs

If you made me guess now, I’d say Shuma mystic Ray is #4 behind hidden missiles. Yes, it’s that good.

37

OK, first off, I think this thread is fine. Everyone knows we won’t have any semblance of an accurate list at least until EVO. But I don’t see any harm in some casual discussion. And if this gets closed, people will just keep trying to make a new one until one is allowed; that always seems to happen. :lol:

Straight up, the Smash community does not understand tier lists. They will say things like Character X has the best matchups overall, but Character Y has been winning more tournaments so Y is higher tier. This doesn’t make any sense. If we did this, Ryu would be top in the SF4 series; he is clearly not. But I really don’t wanna derail this thread, so just ignore their tier methods and leave it at that.

Tier lists are an amalgamation of how good a character’s matchups are, and that’s it. That is why it takes so long to make accurate ones; a lot of matchups needs to be figured out. However, until that happens, it’s not unreasonable to discuss where we think characters will end up on a full list.

Personally I don’t have nearly enough experience to even consider speculatively ranking all the characters. I think I will take a guess at who might be at the top though:

  • Pheonix. I don’t think she’s going anywhere. As better combos are figured out and used, her low life becomes less of an issue. If you can kill a 1000k-life character with one combo, there is less of a distinction between 420k life and 1000k; only chip damage really remains an issue.
  • Dog. She is too versatile to be bad. At this time, I can’t think of any bad matches for her, and her assist is great.
  • Taskmaster. Another super versatile character with huge, meter-efficient damage, great DHCs, and solid assists. He also has good pressure with spidey swing, and nice normals.
  • Wesker/Magneto. Both of these characters are just so good at creating openings, which I think will be the key skill to have in a game where everyone can kill everyone in maximum two openings.
  • Sentinel. I think that he’ll be similar ranking-wise to Bison in SSF4 – high-tier because he has lots of good matchups against low-tiers, but will never be the top because he loses to other top-tiers

I don’t think any claims can be made about bottom-tier characters yet. New discoveries like Captain A’s infinite will keep popping up I think.

38

In lieu of all tier list discussions I had to chime in. If it took 10 years to figure him out… a tier list discussion wouldn’t help at all. In fact, it does the opposite. Because people thought the ball of fluff was low tier, no one cared to experiment since apparently they couldn’t win consistently with it.

Also. Just because someone comes along and uses a character well, does not mean it’s top tier. Gamerbee coming along to play with Adon ploughed through everyone at EVO. But Adon is not top tier. Again, the tier lists did not help at the time because it was WAY TOO EARLY.

I agree with waiting until after EVO… it’s premature to start something now for the sake of starting it. The character specific threads are still asking questions about their own character. I mean if folks want to see what the tier list was like on week 4, I guess we can keep it. Meaningful discussion after two majors separated by 2 weeks? Not sure I entirely agree.

39

Heh SRK where theres a crapload of other threads worse than a tier list, people get banned for making tier lists. Like a thread will threaten their character diversity more than front page videos of infinites and glitches.

Epic fail.

Ooooh tier lists noooo! Keep it open and let people speculate. SRK is comedy. Tournament footage is doing what tier lists used to. Are you going to ban tournament footage? People are sheep deal with it. Heaven forbid this thread gets more useful information in it than say Character roster speculation threads.

40

I agree with a lot of this, and a lot of our observations (at least on top tier) are pretty much the same.

On the flip side of the winning=top tier arguement, you have SF4 Vanilla Sagat… who was unquestionably #1 in the game, but never won many major tournaments, and didn’t even place top 16 in EVO.