MvC1: playing to win

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101

So theres nothing MM can do if WM keeps sjumping and smart bombing? Or is this just a pattern to get a better position than the opponent?

I’ve read someplace else (I think by Dasrik) that you should not jump in this game. And I don’t think that strider jump ins are as good as his jump outs (you know, j back HP :slight_smile: ). So are Strider jump ins useful on MM, or the ideal would be just to wavedash, block, wavedash, block, and he’ll get to MM in time?

And I am guessing no orbs in this fight then (Beat Plane)…

Lastly but most important, what are good assists against a pro MM? I tend to always pick Psylocke just to prevent losing too fast to RV’s, but against MM Lou seems, at least in my head, to be the best choice by far

102

Bump

And who wins, MM or GWM? Why?

edit: This guy I know says MM rocks GWM hard and can deal with any top tier. More than that, he says that srk.com people never win any tourneys and are just full of sh*t . I am really pissed at him. Even if he has some reason (which I don’t think so) he could show some respect.

103

MM is amazing. His specials own duos like WM-Strider. He has so much space control and can even rushdown really well to get an edge over WM. Both tornado hold and rockball owns flying around.
Strider cant jumpin on MM simply because MM is so small that can choose which side it will do a launcher, just block it, or even knock strider out with a special. No assist can really do much to MM, since he can use assist of his own and fill the screen with stuff. Most people use Colossus or Psylocke. Nobody has ever done a full WM infinite against my MM on Kaillera. It may not be possible.MM is decent and can fight anyone in the game. You just are not used to it.Megafighter, you cant win against a pro MM by doing repetitive stuff or relying on Strider-WM duos. Theres much more to it.

104

sob I miss instantaneous Beat Planes. That damn super got raped too hard in MvC 2. It basically did everything: combo ender, cross-up, anti-air (fly underneath the attacker and blast from behind), defense and chipped pretty good. He’s too one-dimensional now in 2…Without the start-up lag and flying limits, he’d be a DHC machine because of all the free damage he’d be getting.

MvC 1 Mega > MvC 2 Mega

Oh well, same tune for a lot of MvC 1 characters vs their MvC 2 forms.

105

With all due respect, I believe the kaillera players of today are better than the arcade players of the past. There are years and years of practice between the 2. I cant see an old school top 5 having a really big advantage over a top notch MM of today. Strider loses control and wm or gwm cant do jack but duos, maybe wolverine and rv can abuse their randomness

106

Dude, I don’t know about that. There’s a world of difference between Kaillera and mvc1 at its peak in the arcades, face to face. I doubt there’s anything online players could do to stop NY, CT, and parts of NJ from laying a beatdown on them, 5 years of rust and all. If you live on or near the east coast, you can come prove me wrong at ECC10 if you want cuz most if not all the top mvc1 players will be there.

MM doesn’t suck, but he’s not top 5 either. And Strider never loses control or else that Strider sucks.

107

Kaillera has been absolute junk for almost 3 years. It’s been downhill ever since the snausage fingez server went down, and once Fugu bit it too, game over.

I hope you’re referring to how your MM was ‘before’ that. If not, you can’t really compare the games. RV doesn’t even work online. Pfah.

108

There are not big servers anymore, but you can just call a good player on AIM to play you or whatever. I heard that you, Prozac, was a better XSF player than most old champs… When the servers were up, the regulars on Kaillera would o all kinds of infinites, uncombos and advanced tactic without problems, and some of them, AFAIK, were rare at the arcades (example is doing 100% with WM infinite or even playing MM to its fullest)

Bernie, I may be wrong, but how would a Strider control a match against a pro MM? I cant see either Strider or WM keeping a solid, big advantage over a pro MM. MM seems to be designed to f*ck those characters, Strider cant ouros, cant run or rush, WM cant infinite, and duoing is not easy…

109

by bringing up kaillera your argument automatically holds no water =/

110

^^What he said. I think I’ve seen a full WM refly 100% once ever on a cabnet and that can’t be because everyone sucks with WM. However, I’ve seen shit like that and worse done with ridiculous regularity on match vids played on emulator rather than arcade. And the tactics clearly don’t match the execution, at least IMO. I never saw any of that stuff back when the game was popular in the arcade and again, it’s not because the players sucked and couldn’t do the combos. I smell some keyboard/marco stuff going on - which is fine cuz who cares now that the game is dead. But like I said, you’re more than welcome to come to ECC and play face to face on equal terms and the same controls: the arcade machine. You know, the way the game is meant to be played.

If I’m wrong, then I’m wrong. Just come and prove it is all I’m saying.

111

mame has no macros… just 3p and 3k, and any variation of lk+lp type junk. but thats necessary b/c you only can do like 3 inputs on the keyboard.

kawaks and fba are another story.

edit: & some1 tell me why I’m fucking up after the KKK lariet in the ac of triple option? they’re in flyscreen, and I cant seem to relaunch :-\

112

If you want to discredit something because the author happens to have used kaillera, start with this, or don’t start at all. http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70122

Now… On the topic of the online differences…
Mame allows you to assign multiple buttons to the same input. For instance, LP can be Y, ‘and’ T. What that means, is you can have your basic set of controls, and then other buttons that function as any number of your original controls, together, in the same frame.(I.E., 3P, 3K, Drill Claw, etc). Mame also has Auto-Fire support(Complete and utter bullshit waiting to happen. =/)

Kawaks, allows you to build macros that do that, advance to the next frame, and input another set of buttons, advance to the next frame, etc etc etc. So, you can map HaDouKen to a button. Or, alternatively, a Shinkuu Hadouken tiger knee’d as low to the ground as possible(Not that that matters in MvC, 'cause ryu sucks… But in XvsSF, Air Shinkuu Hadouken = fast as hell). I’m not sure if these macros work online(I know Mame’s do), so don’t assume they do. The macros have a limit, though… Something like 50 characters, including Advance Frame characters.

FBA, has your standard button layout, and then 3P, and 3K. That’s it. I always have, and always will, use old models of FBA. Optimized to run CPS2, even if the base program has problems dealing with lag(It sometimes resorts to frameskip. Solution? Don’t play on laggy servers. Too bad that’s not possible on kaillera these days.)

It’s unfortunate that these things are neccessary with most keyboards(Don’t get me wrong, you can buy KBs that are far more capable, and can support 2D Fighter input needs), but at the same time, they ‘are’ control enhancements.

Back in the day, there ‘were’ some big names on MvC Kaillera… Nibor played MvC a lot, and taught a lot of people a lot of things… But, even Nibor admits to it being a very different game online. Wolverine Dashing Infinite is ‘very’ hard on a cab. It’s insanely easier with a 3P button. WM flying inf is easier too(Once again, 3P button.) To this day, since MvC was emulated a long time ago, people play it like nuts on kaillera. It’s gotten 10 times more play online than it’s ever gotten offline. If Kaillera MvC hasn’t elevated to a seriously competitive, skilled field(Well, for MvC, anyway. xD)… I’d be ashamed of it. I wouldn’t be particularly surprised, though(Lag makes noobs of everybody.) But the fact is, the lag makes it a different game altogether. It’s not that j00 suck… It’s just that you’re playing a slightly different game…

Yeah, towards the end of when the snausage fingerz server was up(Note, I care about snausage because it was a paradise server. 56 user limit, and lag free. Completely. Run off a stable OC3. I don’t care about it because of the people that were on it.), and for most of fugu, I was the XvsSF best, but, I gave that up once I couldn’t play the way I’d learned to play anymore. All the current people on kaillera need to take a couple hours, and play offline, and realize, just what they’re missing.

Also… As long as no 3P etc macros were used… I think a KB vs Cabinet showdown would be totally fair. How the game was meant to be played is irrelevant… If a better method of control exists, it should be adopted, and become the norm. If KB isn’t better… Than let him play at his own disadvantage. :slight_smile: IMO… KB is better. 3P or no. But I’m a freak.

113

Just curious…What exactly is preventing Kaillera play on a decent server? In other words, why not just replace the faster ones that went down? Money issues?

I’m new to the whole idea of online emu play (and my computer probably can’t support a game like MvC on it anyway), so I’m just wondering…I can’t imagine playing the game on anything other than a cabinet or a DC.

114

[quote=Prozac`Nation]
If you want to discredit something because the author happens to have used kaillera, start with this, or don’t start at all. http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70122

And what’s your point? If anything, you proved that you’re a armchair warrior. I mean its nice that you’re writing that stuff up and all, but if you spent that time actually going to you know, tournaments, where they actually have xsf at some of them, like MWC -> http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79282 - where Wilson is actually annoyed at the xsf scene due to gasp! lack of participants. If you Kaillera warriors actually went and yknow, supported the scene and decided not to post on srk all the time I’d actually have a shred of respect for you.

I rag on Kaillera players because they make bullshit claims like they are the best after the game is dead. wtf, noobs.com?

And for the record:

Yeah, cause Nibor actually played the game with us IRL, (but couldnt beat any of us on arcade cabinets, although he is mad good) while owning the shit out of random internet scrubs online who thought they were actually something at the game after it was dead. So yeah, lol.

Yeah, no shit! Anyone who does that is obviously using 3p buttons, like Bernie said people do alot of stuff online that is alot harder to do in arcade, thats why i take kaillera matches with a grain of salt, no matter how 31337 they might be.

115

A ‘decent’ kaillera server has enormous bandwith requirements. So, yes, money, as its ridiculously impractical to host. There’s ‘no’ revenue return on the server, and the only thing you can do is get a huge ass dedicated server and use part of it to make some cash, and the majority to host a kaillera server, but even that is big $$$$. ‘snausage fingerz’, a really old server, was run off a jacked campus connection, or something along those lines. It’s a good bet that’s why it’s gone now.

Edit: I make no apologies for not going to nationwide tourney gatherings. It’s money I don’t have, plain and simple. Arcades are dying because they’re too dependant on population density, which MA Suburbs don’t have. The only times ‘worth’ going, are preset dates where everyone plans on going together, and competing. Even that is screwed, because so many arcade players have an absolute void when it comes to gaming ethics. So sad, too bad, long story short, move to Tokyo. However, I’ve got a lot more respect for people that are honestly alruistic and willing to help out, than people who do nothing but talk shit on overconfident scrubs, whether it’s in person or not.(Yeah, a lot of kaillera players think they’re the world best. A lot of arcade players do too. It’s human nature to assume that after you’ve beaten everyone in your general area.)

Tell the man why strider owns MM. Not how you own him.

I still don’t know why people haven’t made Online 'Cades yet. It’d be ridiculously easy, and profitable. Kaillera Servers are crappy because it’s a no-revenue subject. Money doesn’t go into it ‘anywhere’. Nobody donates, because servers are just faceless places to plug in. Most don’t even have a link to a website, and if they do, nobody goes there. A simple setup with an actual $.25 charge for each game, etc, would be so simple, and it’d make ‘more’ than enough money to get the kind of bandwith you’d need to host the servers. Only problem, is that it would need backing from the respective companies, or else it’d be illegal. Capcom is retarded for not instituting this as soon as arcades were doomed. They’d make ‘ridiculous’ money on games that’ve been out for years. The revenue would up the standards, servers would actually ‘work’, emulators would stop being ‘alpha’, ‘beta’, second grade programs done in programmers free time, etc etc.

116

It is not really that hard. I can do it, its just that someone discovered an effective way to do it and told everybody else. Probably in 2000 players did not know the easier, more reliable versions yet. I mean, thats years and years of extra practice. But Prozac has a good point, that a couple frames make a big difference. I think Prozac would beat Sabin online (XSF) and the opposite would happen at an arcade, if theyre on a close level. Arcade players complain that Kaillera players dont go to tourneys, but arcade players also avoided Kaillera challenges, which is easier and cheaper to do… (also allows kb vs stick to Prozac and others)

“Tell the man why strider owns MM. Not how you own him.”

Yeah, thanks Prozac. I keep my statements. Strider cant control the match, WM cant too. MM is pretty good at least in those 2 matches (GWM too). The only disadvantaged match, IMO, would be RV…

And online arcades would be too good

117

Sabin posting under my boys account cause I’m too lazy to log out…

JohnnyEight: If you bother to tell me exactly how MM owns Strider/WM/GWM, and I’ll be more than happy to dispute it.

about arcade players avoiding kaillera challenges…please…

118

If arcade players avoid kaillera challenges, I don’t blame them. Kaillera these days is… Bleh. I mean, it’s a convenient alternative if people don’t have the time/money to truck their ass out to tournies, or the location for local comp… But the convenience comes at a price, 'cause nobody is shelling out for superbuff servers anymore. It’s all junk.

I’d trash countless people in a KB vs Stick offline matchup. I played the game way too much. It’s ingrained in my psyche. I can do XvsSF single frame setups and dead on lockdown in my sleep. I don’t play the shit for a month, come back, and nail it again first try, easy as shit. But I’ll admit to being rusty and sub-par on a Cabinet Stick&Buttons setup. I’m fine with not using 3P, if that was an option for me, and I always turn the buttons off on any friend’s KB that can handle it.(I use Charlie+Gambit/Ryu. Hardly 3P/K intensive. Pfah.) If and when I went to another major tourney, I’d def bring my Laptop and mess some shit up. I’d probably buy a crappy X-Arcade and get in some warm up too(Hell, I’d bring it too, for Stickless-players that wanted to go Stick vs KB.) I really don’t like the inconsistency of arcade controls. Loose sticks, tight sticks, tight buttons, diff. positioning… When 1/60th second timing is on the line, screw that. But anyway…

Yeah, I’d be interested to know how MM can hold that down. I never really saw MM as that great in MvC, Beatplane aside. Have any secret strats? Match vids? What… I’ve played a lot of MvC in 'cades, but never seen a good MM.

119

You want convenience? Go to ECC. Bring your setup, too. Myself, some locals, and I’m sure plenty of visiting players will be more than willing to give you comp, for free no less. This is better than a cabnet - those might not be available anyway due to tournament usage. Bum a ride from the Boston players if you have to since I’m sure a bunch of them will make it. They come to most major Break events anyway. Make friends (if you haven’t already) and come down. Sabin will be there if you want to beat your respect out of him or something.

The point is: just show up. This goes for any online player that thinks they’re hot shit. Come down and see why online play is a different beast compared to live play and why I feel it’s inferior. No hate, just stating my opinion.

Re: MM - I don’t see what makes him so special that he doesn’t have to spend most of the match blocking and taking free chip damage like most of the cast vs Strider. If you can explain it or show some video of why MM doesn’t die to Strider, I’d love to see it cuz I don’t think this match works. It’s a little better vs WM, but I’d hardly call that a winning match either. As far as escaping duos? Short of the guy completely fucking up, I can’t understand that. Please explain this.

And who brought up Nibor? I’ll slap that silly jew around, too. :stuck_out_tongue:

120

no qualms with that, real life -> games for sure, still, i hate when people talk theory fighter but don’t bother to support the scene at all. if you have time to make long ass posts on a message board then i dont see why you can’t make time/save accordingly to travel.

yeah but the difference is, some arcade players actually place/win in actual tourneys on a local/national level when theres way more comp/no lag/in front of a large audience, so they have a right to talk. whereas kaillera players…just play with their boys online and claim they are the best after the known best players have already stopped playing.