MvC1: playing to win

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
121

Personally, I’ve always liked Mega as one of the better anti-Strider characters and Beat Plane is generally a large enough reason. Beat Plane outright negates Ourobouros if both are done full screen and if Strider gets too aggressive, he might end up taking damage with orbs spinning around him. Strider can’t rush effectively for fear of being launched from a jump in (or having a Beat Plane go underneath him for an easy cross-up) or having to deal with chin-high air busters on the ground or sets of two in the air (that’s not taking rockball traps into account). Collossus-Hyper Megaman helps deter jump-ins as well, but most good Striders seem to knock Col out with a good slash…Works against 95 percent of Striders I’ve fought though. Mega can rush behind a low air buster pretty safely and his HK works as a high priority attack and a cross-up…Luckily for him, Strider’s sprite is one of the easier ones to cross-up. You can sub jumping attacks for Beat Planes as well for surprises…2 of these per round can take 50-70 percent life alone. Mega also has an easy guard break (Buster->Beat Plane), so make of that what you will.

IMO, Strider’s just too much out of his element to fight Mega effectively…Obviously he’ll win if he gets 1-2 basic combos on him, but it’s also possible that he might not touch him outside of those, opening the door for a comeback win.

One other thing: Mega gains meter for each buster he throws and each one that gets blocked (something that was taken out in MvC 2). Obviously, this gives him the chance to abuse the Beat Plane whenever he needs it.

Against War Machine/GWM…That’s another story. I never got to fight many good ones, but the ones I did fight beat me pretty good. Best advice is to go for the rockballs and busters to keep him grounded and bait the air HP or kneedive out and punish either one with a Beat Plane. I THINK Hyper Megaman works well on GWM if you anticipate a smart bomb (never tested it, but it seems like a good counter). The problem with this match is if Megaman doesn’t do enough damage fast enough, GWM’s hyper armor protects him in a duo and he can get off a War Destroyer easily (Mega should be able to use Beat Plane to lock down both duo characters for about 1/3-1/2 of the time…If you do it on reaction, you can peg the other guy coming in. Even if not, he’s tricky to hit out of it. Obviously this doesn’t work with GWM, so you either have to block or attempt a suicide Rush Drill to score a kill…Works if Mega’s going to die from chip anyway).

And against RV…Forget it!

And BTW…I played in the arcades.

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Saying Megaman can’t be rushed by Strider because of jumpback fierce is like saying Blanka beats Sagat for free in CvS2 because slide goes under low fierce.

It’s not happening. Strider low forward > *, and Strider beats Megaman. Beat Plane beating orbs is meaningless if you fight a player who knows this.

123

The two good things I like about MM is Beat Plane and the fact that he can stall the match for a long time. Good character, don’t get me wrong. However, I still fail to see what he can do vs a Strider that knows what’s up and will range MM/build meter all day with strong/forward. How is MM beating or getting away from that? And why would Strider need to jump in? Jump back + pick a slash works fine for me if I need it. Much like jab roll makes it stupid to sweep, loss of blocking frames makes it stupid to jump in. Also, I still don’t see a real way in which MM doesn’t eat >40% damage vs a correctly executed duo. Beat plane works on someone who fucked up. Anything else can either be seen a mile away or baited and be accounted for either way. You want to try Rush Drill? I can wait and then kill you when you recover because it’s not a safe/smart move.

I’m sorry, but the stuff being mentioned is either really basic or too vague. Too much theory fighter, not enough practical. Too much depends on the other guy messing up or really situational stuff, which = losing match to me. Collosus assist? Who uses that anymore? Way too many better assists than that.

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They don’t. The only macros that work online with kawaks are the ones taht come with the emulator, AKA 123, 456, 36, 25 i think. Custom ones dont work online, I figured this out when I made macros for picking the secret characters like GWM and they only worked offline.

Mame seems to suck online for various reasons… I’d use kawaks any day.

and anyone who says anyone BEATS strider must surely be joking

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I dont think “please” is a good argument. Going to a tourney requires wasting at least a day and a good deal of money. For most online players, it represents travelling thousand of miles to play a different version of the game (everything happens 1 or 2 frames early). For arcade players (snausage time) it was just to hook up on the net and take any challenges, on a differente version of the game as well (everything happens 1 or 2 frames later). For me travelling to play games would be a very weird thing (no prejudice, I am just not used to it), but Kaillera is nice to send some free time when at home, and almost everybody can (well, for most part could) play with it.
I dont realy care if Kaillera players are or are not better, but MM can fight any Strider/WM decently (Ill post about it in a little while) and, as I said, repetitive tactics cant win against him.

edit: Bernie, ECC is not convenient at all for me. Why do you mention the Boston players? Are they paying people to come/housing or something like that?

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One or two frames consistent delay in input doesn’t mean anything. It really doesn’t. It’d have practically no noticable effect on the game. If and when Kaillera becomes like it was several years ago, it’ll be a much more viable method of competition than arcades.

What ‘does’ matter, is the dramatic possibility of the game suddenly pausing for 10, 15 frames, go for 5 frames, pause for 3, do that same process again, then start running normally… Or for the game to ignore the buttons you pressed for one or two frames, therefore meaning that players CAN’T develop excellent execution, because the game keeps changing the rules on what input gets to go through.

‘Those’ sort of problems, Lag and Frameskip, are problems that go down on current, unstable kaillera servers. Too many kaillera players these days are used to ‘that’ world, which most definitely ‘is’ inferior. Too many kaillera players develop egos, and rivalries, on those circumstances, only to be cheated out of any meaning in them with the server screws somebody over, or when some stupidly worthless tactic suddenly because almost unstoppable online(XvsSF Hopkick x 1000, Random MK Throw, pwned!) Those kinds of problems just make the game ‘worse’. Current Kaillera is like, you’re playing in an arcade, and some monkey keeps running out and slapping you in the back of the head… Eventually, I said WTF and stopped playing. =/

127

Goldfish said some stuff that I agree against Strider. And low forward does not beat MMs HP. MM can even jump forward himself with HP close to the ground, HP in the ground or combo if it hits, and Strider will at best tarade with the first HP. Unless Strider gets really close (hardest thing against MM) Megaman will control teh pace of the MM chooses to be really close, he will still have control until Strider pushblocks or gets out of stun (either way he is dealing with a low to the ground HP when he is free). Strider cant ouro, cant run away (too many Hps to try and build meter, plus rockball and stuff) and cant jump in. He can only dash forward, and with 2 Hps at a time, plus helpers , plus rockball, MM can even choose to attack him and build meter faster if he feels like it. I dont see how Strider can deal with any of it. I am not saying its impossible (maybe someone can tell me how). Just doing multiple HPs, close to the ground and than grounded, already takes out too many of striders options.
The WM match is not very different. WM cant infinite MM for 99 hits/100%. In fact I dont think he can even go past 20, which means that WM will build much less meter than at any other fight. Flying to runaway is not effective. HPs can keep WM out of fly mode, or wavedash DP will hit everytime if done right (no time for WM to maneuver and do LK into infinite) and even well placed air combos work well (Wolverine style). Kneedive can be countered with special. WMs j HP/HK sucks (MM can maneuver freely under it and launch from any side). Smart bombs are outprioritized by HPs at ground or j level and allows MM to wavedash if at sj (MM can keep wavedashing and combo WM when he lands)
Well, I think thats more or less why I think MM has an advantage on both fights. Oh yeah, and theres the duo. If MM does everything right, he will build meter much faster than WM (which means he may duo a lot more than the opponnet, making chipping damage almost even). And,when the duo is done, very often there are openings for MM to pushblock, Beat Plane, LP, Beat Plane, or Beat Plane right away. I think that the only situation where MM cant do any of those is when the opponent lands inches away and does d LK to hold him (in a distance where MM cant hit with LP, faster jab in the game, I think). Duos are still good, but much less reliable, and even risky if the opponent cant hold MM at the exact position they want him to be…
Your turn, people

128

I swear I always felt at a difference with it. I feel I do everything a little too soon when I play MvC at the arcade (if I want to sj at the earliest frame I have not stopped landing yet, for instance), and the opposite when I play some SF game on kaillera. Of course the pauses suck, and suck a lot, so you cant really take some games seriously (well, why take games seriously anyway :slight_smile: )

129

There’s the world of difference, Johnny. People in arcades often take them very seriously. They ‘like’ to take them seriously. It’s competition, it’s fierce, it ups the stakes, and it goes beyond ‘Leisure activity’. It’s just a different game, chief. :wink:

Both are fun, and both have flaws, though.

130

wow dude lol…of course that all sounds good on paper but theoryfighter.com…

To whomever mentioned Colossus, he is only good as antiair against attacks that are right above the opponents head and close to the corner…against stuff like wolvie headstomp and other like that. other than a few specific purposes, it kinda sucks…cant use it against a ground based game cause you can jab roll for free, and it gets beat out by alot of attacks normally, its not too reliable…

[quote=JohnnyEight]
Goldfish said some stuff that I agree against Strider. And low forward does not beat MMs HP. MM can even jump forward himself with HP close to the ground, HP in the ground or combo if it hits, and Strider will at best tarade with the first HP. Unless Strider gets really close (hardest thing against MM) Megaman will control teh pace of the MM chooses to be really close, he will still have control until Strider pushblocks or gets out of stun (either way he is dealing with a low to the ground HP when he is free). Strider cant ouro, cant run away (too many Hps to try and build meter, plus rockball and stuff) and cant jump in. He can only dash forward, and with 2 Hps at a time, plus helpers , plus rockball, MM can even choose to attack him and build meter faster if he feels like it. I dont see how Strider can deal with any of it. I am not saying its impossible (maybe someone can tell me how). Just doing multiple HPs, close to the ground and than grounded, already takes out too many of striders options.

um, if megaman does a buster shot on the ground against anyone and they know its coming, he’s dead. why would you use that as a tool against strider standing fwd? no combo potential, cant duo off a ground buster. nothing. youre gonna try to do jump back busters? fine, you can do that, if you guess wrong once, i can go go for guardbreak if you normal jump, strong fwd fierce (wait) rh,) obviously there are variations of this guardbreak and you dont have to always go for it, that combo builds a shitload of meter for strider too. or i can just try to low fierce you if i think youre gonna megabuster if im close enough. if i guess right, you lose like 65%. if you try and beatplane or j roundhouse to try to anticipate my limbs? thats okay, ill just block if i think youre gonna do that (beat plane only does like 3% chip anyway) or if you trade with my low fierce (with j. rh) thats fine, i still get initiative as youre coming down anyway and any fuckups on your part lead to you losing at least 40%.

strider cant run away? what the heck? superjump repeated strongs, dash back ground strong. you cant stop me from building meter, rockball/jump fierce/beatplanes/assist is not a good enough deterrent. the “trap” runs out eventually due to limited assists, or running out of meter. it just doesnt do enough damage. there is no high damage option from just rockballing/jump back fierce/beat plane, the only time you get damage is when i fuck up, which is not very often.

btw standing rh a deterrent against strider? hell no man, i can trade with jumping rh against your launcher all day…i dont care if i trade…once i get initiative its over for you…theres nothing megaman can do really once orbs lockdown starts but block for like 45% seconds while building duo at the same time. Which leads me to another good question, megaman cant do jack about duos. plz tell me exactly what he can do to get out of these duo blockstrings?

strider/wolvie duo - strider stand fierce, call duo, wolvie comes in, youre still in blockstun, strider does stand fierce xx orbs, wolvie does berzerker barrage, strider rh teleports behind you and then you just legion/bbx them from both sides. DONE!!!

strider/wm duo - strider stand fierce or rh, duo attack, strider does stand fierce into legion/wm does war destroyer. plz dont tell me youre gonna beat plane out of that cause you cant.

or even strider/gambit - stand fierce call duo, strider does stand fierce/rh into qcf+kk, strider does legion, gambit does kinetic card explosion from the rear.

see the patterns im getting at here? even if you can beat me on paper, in addition to that, you have duos to worry about, and they totally dominate mm 100% for free, nothing they can do. you cant try to counter those blockstun patterns beacuse they force you to block before you can do anything. only scrubs leave gaps open for a mm player to randomly try and beat plane back. mm’s duos are worthless as well.

dood…even without pointing out exactly where youre wrong, 20 hits is still a crapload of meter in a game where you only need 2 levels to duo succesfully (cuz hes not gonna ues meter for anything else). as i pointed out above, mm cant do jack squat to blockstring duos which are basically a guaranteed 50% dmg on him AT least. and youre also forgetting that wm has uncombos that reset your damage anyway, and they work especially well on MM since during semi infinite you randomly airdash behind him, sometimes he doesnt block correctly in that instance, sometiems he just gets uncomboed randomly (cause hes so light) and theres nothing he can do.

who says i have to go into flight mode to build meter? since that is wm’s main objective in all his fights.

lol, wavedash dp? that’s a way to get yourself killed quick, you cant risk that at all even if it does work.

what air combos, you cant get close enough to me to do a aircombo, any time you get close you risk getting semiinfinited from any position.

you cant start any kind of traps on me, the minute i see you do anything like a jump back fierce, call assist or start rockball trap i can do low fierce into ground shoulder cannon which will force you to jump at me. or if you jump at me, stand fierce rh shoulder cannon, no you cannot bait me by doing empty jump beatplane, that doesnt work either.
lol, you can dash behind my jump fierce/rh with a welltimed launcher? that doesnt work either. you cant stop my kneedive into fierce, or even get close enough to me to do a launcher as mm’s ground game sucks.

your stuff sounds like theory fighter.com, except none of the stuff you posted actually works man =/

johnnyeight, the stuff you said is all good and i am not disputing any of that like i said before to prozac. however how can you claim you are the best without playing the players that were actually considered good at the game? thats the issue i have with kaillera champions. there is no reason for any arcade champion to come and play a kaillera champion, especially when the game is different offline.

gbsurine, what aircombo are you trying to do exactly?

131

I like Strider/War Machine.

Derek

132

mvc1 16man tourney next evo. bet it.

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Going to a tourney also requires dedication. If you spend enough time and effort to get good and feel that online players are better, you should come prove it. Otherwise, it sounds hollow and you’re gonna get clowned when you don’t step up. Arcade players don’t have to prove shit; they already have. Besides, it’s established that the online game isn’t the same anyway. At least not right now.

5 extra years of practice but you’re still missing out on a lot of important tactics. I guess you guys gotta keep playing because right now I question the level of your competition.

I mentioned the Boston thing for Prozac since I guess he lives in the MA area? That, and I’d personally love to see some comp for any old Marvel, doesn’t matter who it is. How many more chances am I gonna get to play people IRL anyway?

I personally liked this part:

I just got a Break weekly flashback. That shit was brutal. mvc1 = aggressor. :clap:

Didn’t that happen at B5 or something? Oh yeah, west coast let Hulk win. Bet that.

134

Mostly answering the post from Sabin.
There are always 2 hps (air and ground) if strider jumps one, MM recovers before the second. If he doesnt, he blocks the second and theres nothing he can do.
Strider cant sj away. I said it already. It is too easy to cross him up on his way down. .Strider cant trade if hes facing the other way which happens if he comes from j/sj while MM can dash/wavedash crossup any way he wants to (any character can do this at any marvel game, I think, cable hit storm with it a lot on the mvc2 videos ive seen). And special knocks strider out if MM wants easy damage.
The duos can all be pushblocked at the HP before them. Plus, how are you gonna make MM block a standing HP with 2 fireballs in your way, at least?
I dont think WM does random air dash below MM. It cant happen when youre holding uptowards and by the end of the screen MM simply is out of the combo. 20 would be the best possible situation (2 hit jump in ground combo and all at startup), 10 hits or so are much more realistic.
Wavedash dp is completely safe if done right. You do wavedash, if WM doesnt dashes forward during the wavedash, just do it and theres a free hit. Little damage but no risks whatsoever.
If you sj from directly below (instead of a dp) WM eats air combo starting with lp. WM needs MM to be a little in front of him (not directly below) to start infinite with either lp or lk.
There is no theory in this. I just play, thats the first time I am putting tactics into words, but this stuff all work well for me. And I never said I am the best, I just think MM can be pretty good. And until now nobody posted something that would change my mind (it may happen, of course). As for Kaillera vs arcade, I really am kinda lost here. There are good players on both, this I am sure. Arcade used to have more comp (see MvC2) but Kaillera guys play it everyday (well, not me), for hours, and for years. Theres a good case for them being as good or better. If a decent server appears, you could play some of it for a while just to see if you can beat everyone easily or not. I think kaillera are more adavanced because they do more stuff, like full WM infinite and stuff, but this really does not mean that much. I know guys who uses just simple stuff and are better than most combofreaks
I wont go to Evo, of course. Like I said, it was so much easier for top arcade players just to experience kaillera for a while (cmon , its right at home). It would be nice to have Prozac playing sabin or whoever is good at a tourney with an emu, keyboard and all).
Thanks for the discussion, and sorry for the mess. I dont have much patience to write

added later - which duo does 50% + to MM? I am pretty sure WM-Strider doesnt, even if the timing keep MM out of sjing at all. WM-GWM is pretty close to it, I guess

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yeah im too lazy to refute your points either but ill just break down the matchup like this.

against strider/wm, you cant stop me from building meter at all. period. you also cant do any kind of damage to me with megaman should i choose to block everything. pushblock doesnt matter if i make you block a attack into duo either. saying 2 megabusters into assist/beatplane does not equate keeping strider out. id refute your others but im too lazy to post anymore about this topic.

oh well, to each their own i guess, i prefer to play a lot more than i like talking about it.

and i posted which duos do close to 50% man, even if im exaggerating by like 5-10% since its been so long since i played this game competively - its still a large ass chunk

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I don’t care how good you are with Megaman, you only have a limited amount of ways in which you can spaz buster shots, and anyone with a bit of nerve can dodge them easily. Once Strider is close, what are you going to do to pry him off your robotic ass?

You talk all pretty, which already tells me you’ll lose in a real match. Too busy thinking about which cool strategy to employ.

137

This coming from a guy who posted like a thousand times on the last few pages against my 3 or 4 first posts in any forum ever. WTF, look at your answer. Uh, oh, hmmm, I dont realy know what to do against MM, but Ill win, cause I call people retards on the Internet and I stay calm, yeah, staying calm wins… Seriously, youre wasting everybodys time. If you dont want to participate, get out of here. If you want to play, set up a server and call me. And I know Sabin won tourneys and shit, youre just a follower, so please dont tell me to go to an arcade and face whoever you are. And theres nothing fancy or cool in what I posted, I said MM is good, people said tell me why and I told them, as asked.
Sabin, I already answered yours in the previous post. You cant blind sj because of crossup launcher. True, you can block everything on the ground, but then you dont build meter and just loses advantage to chip and even throws. Pushblocking HP youll come too late to keep blockstun, and strider will not really make MM block an hp (if he can do this he can get control so duos would be redundant). About the duos I was not trying to discredit you, I just tought that maybe there was some tricks to it, strider/wm takes 40% or a little less, I think, with 3 levels (MM takes less chipping cause of his size). I prefer to play too, and I am sure I played it more often than most here (playing at home is too convenient). If a decent server shows up, Id love to play any of you, winning or losing. Without it, I wont travel a 1000, a 100 or even 10 miles for a game. I just feel that other things are more fun, and games can only beat the tv on my choice of pasttimes… good day to all

138

sigh Why don’t you learn?

JohnnyEight, whatever you think you know about the game, me, or the scene in general can’t hold any water because you haven’t put yourself on the line, got out and entered tournaments. Online experience means nothing, and anyone who’s been in the scene long enough will tell you that.

Am I a nobody? Before you make assumptions, you ought to ask around, instead of making yourself look like an ass. I might not win tournaments but I get listened to because I make sense. I’ve been around longer than you have, and I’ve seen enough tournament matches to make careful, calculated observations.

You are reacting out of a sense of hurt pride because someone talked down your favorite character. Get some perspective, please, count to 3 and try again.

139

Youre the guy offending me, but thats cool. and Im being pretty reasonable. I posted what works for me as asked, and you come calling names and stuff. Maybe you made a lot of sense somewhere else, but all I see is misdirected anger. If MM sucks, Ill deal with it. For now, based on what I’ve written and read, he doesnt.

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There’s some nice info in here.

But I get the impression that everybody is overreacting just a little bit, and most of the stuff would depend on the situation.

I still have some questions and I hope somebody can help me with those:

Is it really not possible to do a full infinite on MM?

What is (are) the best assist(s) to use against him?

Also, I saw Sabin writing several answers to react to MM’s game, but I still have no idea how to take initiative against him. If I am up against a good MM, what should be my basic gameplan playing Strider, WM or GWM (I suppose RV and Wolverine gameplans do not change)?

On a small note, I don’t think online players do WM’s full infinite as easily as it sounds in this thread. At least in the way I do it, you need some luck or extreme timing to lose fly exactly at the right time to do it again (if you do all hits too soon or too late in the infinite you’ll end up missing the refly). I get around 40 or 60 hits pretty often, but I got to 99 just a couple of times, like 1% or something… I heard there is a pattern to do it where you unfly and refly manually, but I have no idea how to do that.

Lastly, are you all completely sure of strong shoulder cannon resetting in all versions? I never got it to reset. I do it and it counts hits the same as in fierce, and it takes practically the same damage as in fierce too. I am doing it in the same way I would finish a combo with fierce shoulder cannon…