MvC1: playing to win

Classic Fighting Games Other Games
81

Damn

Hi Erik :slight_smile:

It’s too bad myself/Eddie never got a chance to play you (in your prime) since you play DWM and all. Oh well.

I’m the only one on RV’s nuts, and I never said he beat GWM, except in a 1-on-1 match. I’ve probably played RV/GWM match more than anyone has, since I had to fight Eddie’s GWM so often in tourneys. Only way I would win is picking RV/Strider vs DWM, put Strider in first to do some damage to GWM, try and bait his Duo team to come out at the wrong time so I can lock him down with orbs, and counter tag RV in on WM so I can kill him before he gets 2 levels again. Anyway…

RV’s low strong can safely poke at this and block in time before jump back/jump down HP comes out. Again, it all depends on angles though, obviously I’m not going to try to stick out low strong or stick out ANYTHING if he tries to do a early jump HP to trade…if I think he’s going to attack early I’ll wait until he attacks early then hit him in recovery with low strong or low fierce. It’s a waiting game…

RV can walk under this and throw him. If you cancel into shoulder cannon (low,) RV can walk under this too and get a guaranteed throw, low strong XX low fierce combo, UNLESS, he has antiair assist to back him up and hit RV out of his chain, or he has duo attack. In either case, if I think they’re going to call a helper like Colossus or Psylocke (dont bother bringing up any other helper cause they wont hit RV on defense for the most part), I can do low jab, low strong, they call assist, I can jump over and throw them again because they’re still in animation for calling their assist.

You can tagout if you think RV is going to walk forward under GWM standing forward and throw you of course, but it can be baited.

I dont think any of us here are talking about fighting scrub DWM’s.

You’re stating the obvious, of course. We ALL know this, no need to say it again

How is he not “that” good? He’s #2 in the game next to Strider, only reason why he’s not #1 is because he gets countered by DWM duo (or duos in general,) and doesnt have strong Duo teams himself (they’re good, but nowhere near the top level Duo teams.) Other than fighting GWM 1 on 1 (he has to think, but this match can be won,) he goes 50/50 or beats every character in the game, especially 1 on 1.

This is coming from a mindset of someone with good defense, you MUST have good defense to play RV of course. 1-on-1 vs GWM, RV has the speed, the priority (well priority doesnt matter against GWM heh) to outrun GWM 1-on-1, pick and run pick and run, and it’s REALLY hard for GWM to stop (this is if they’re the last 2 characters, not the first 2. Obviously GWM can build duo while RV runs away and blasts him to all hell.)

Prowess, this is what I was going to write to you but i was too lazy heh. Same theory applies though.

SSJGogeta: Casual play doesn’t mean anything, and I don’t remember who you are, but GG’s I guess. At that point I didn’t care about MVC1 at all though, only played it in tourneys.

82

My point is, and I think War_Destroyers as well is, that every strategy you have stated for RV against GWM is iffy and inconsistant. To say things can be ‘baited’ doesnt statistically amount to anything. GWM can just as easily bait your c.strong pokes; and his is a safer gamble because as RV you dont have anything else you can do. And even if you guess right 7 out of 10 times in a trade and block in time, those 3 times you got hit will kill you. And I am talking plain trades… you are forgetting, that even if you poke and block in time you are still getting thrown.

There is not reason to sit and break down senarios anymore, because they are all cercomstantial. We can go back and forth all day with that. The fact of the matter is, every thing venom has that is remotely effective against GWM is a gamble.

Which is why I said, he ‘can’ win. But its not very likely if the GWM has a clue.

83

Prowness, you make it sound like I’m not playing top DWM/GWM players or something…like I said, I’m talking from a perspective of someone (myself) who has really good defense and plays GWM vs RV fights all day. GWM is linear and you know what he is capable of, and so is RV, thing is you can’t stop him from chipping you slowly to death even if it is RV. The fight isnt free for either side 1 on 1 but while RV is at a disadvantage health wise, you can definetely win if you play it right.

oh well, I guess you guys won’t believe it unless you see for yourselves. No sense trying to play theory fighter.

84

Don’t you know art, past tourney results don’t count for shit here:rolleyes: :wink: :smiley:

85

Which was partially my point in the first place. Yes, any character is ‘able’ to win in any match if they play patiently and precisely. Hell, even Roll can beat Strider if played ‘right’. But that doesnt mean strider is at the disadvantage. I think you arent being realistic, and its cool that you favor RV, but there is no way that this is a bad match up for GW.

Take for instance, if you yourself were playing GW. Would you fall for the same tactics you are trying to describe with RV? Would you really sit there a whole round and let yourself get poked on recovery time untill you were dead? -or is what you are saying primarily effective against the uneducated. I think its the latter.

86

RV is not at all a 50/50 against GWM…1-on-1, 2-on-2 or whatever…

Sorry…for RV to win consistently, he has to fight an amazingly easy to telegraph GWM…

Again, don’t know what kinda GWM there is out there, but I’ve taken out incredibly skilled, accurate, fast, tourney winning RV with GWM.
Were talking RV who practice their GWM fights and still get beat by what would easliy be a more than 50/50 fight.

I’m finished discussing this; with that there is not only small advantage, but a significant advantage for GWM in a GWM vs. RV fight.
The raw evidence is heavy for GWM, all arguments for RV are situational.

Don’t get me wrong…RV is a great character, but not vs. GWM.

87

mixup: lol i guess not :frowning:

lol, I only had Eddie Lee’s DWM team to play against, I guess he’s hella predictable, or something. after all he’s only the best mvc1 player there ever was. lol.

But GWM is a linear character no doubt.

Anyway, I’m done talking here as well. The situations I posted do work against GWM players, if RV players over die for free I guess they don’t have good defense or something. but I guess I’m playing against scrubs then lol. Oh well, to each their own, too bad the game is dead otherwise we could settle this. Peace out

88

i just have to know about this RV. who is his daddy and what does he do?

89

I am having some troubel trying to do War machine’s unfly infinite.

I go like this: HK, sj. LP, sj. MP, sj. HP, AD UF, sj. LP, sj. HP, fly, (LP, MP, UF HP, AD)- I repeat this part 5 times -, then (LP, MP, AD) twice. Here flight ends, but I can’t fly again fast enough to connect LP and do it all over again, the opponent usually falls out of my combo.

Is there any trick that could help me getting it right?

Another thing. In a WM vs WM fight, at the start of the round, which move should I do to have the best chance to get the first hit?

90

Have you seen the double infinite done with two gwm? Well its super easy just get some1 and yourslef to both press down hp at the same time while close and there it is. And RV vs gwm is almost impossible because get gwm and strider load your super bars DUO and its over. But thers a good tactic to use on gwm when playing RV and thats grab then down hp 2 times ive seen it done a few times but still overall RV vs gwm, gwm owns him.

91

The war machine vs red venom has been discussed already… no point in bringing it up unless it extreamly inovative. Needless to say that was vague anyway.

The war machine +gold war machine glitch/infinate isnt that useful unless you are playing someone dumb enough to get caught by it. You cant combo into it practically, they have to be standing, you have to be at close range, and both war machines have lag time on c.fierce. Plenty of time to super jump away from you or just counter duo which has invencibility on start up. Its much safer and more reliable to combo into a duo, or go for double war destroyer chip.

And mega, if they are falling to fast replace jab>fierce with short>strong>fierce. See if that works. If you are still having problems then you probably need to clean up your timing and execution.

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I would not do jab, fierce. I fly, then do jab, strong, fierce 5 times and then jab, fierec only twice to end teh fly and reset it by flying again. I am not sure if I expressed myself correctly.

Anyways, I believe using short instead of jab might be exactly what I need. I will let you know if it works out, thanks a lot.

Also, do you know with which move should I start in a WM vs WM fight? Thanks

93

I would wager standing jab beats just about everything else. But there is no where to get exact frame data. But I dont think standing short beats it. In any case either one of those.

Do [jab/short>c.strong>] gives you enough time to see wheather or not the jab/short actually hit them or not before pressing roundhouse. That way you dont risk having it blocked and being punished on the lag time.

If they block the [jab/short>c.strong>] then do [c.fierce>fly] the missle will push them far enough back that you are safe and you cancel it into flight. From here they will be just getting out of block stun and you can continue to rush down from the air with your choice of mixups.

If they get dont block the [jab/short>c.strong>] then do [roundhouse>air combo>inf] obviously. Or you can always go for the war destroyer.

if they jump straight up and your jab/short somehow wiffs dont panic. 1 of 3 things can happen. 1, they will try to trade with your c.strong and loose. 2 they will try to knee drop you, and it will either trade or they will loose depending on thier timing (if they wait too long you can see it coming and just roundhouse them anyways). 3 they will jump and fly. Which will put you at a significant disadvantage because they are in the air and you are not. Which means you have to safely get in the air or be rushed down for free on the ground unless you want to waste a level. Normally this wont even be a problem, because you will jab them out of thier jumping frames, and if you arent punching soon enough to do that then you are getting hit yourself anyway.

94

I am bringing this back :slight_smile: Good news is that now I can do the complete infinite for WM. If anyone cares I am doing it like this: launcher, lp, lk, fly, lp, mp, hp, ad, 8 x (lp, hp, ad), fly again, 9 x (lp,hp,ad), fly again and there you go. Sometimes I refly too soon but I am getting it. The first sequence have an extra hit to compensate sinec WM is still going up, thus hitting the opponent a little faster at the beginning.

But I can’t infinite Megaman. He just goes too far after the few first reps. What I do is couple reps, 3 0r 4 x (hp, ad) and MP shoulder cannon. Can anyone help me keep Megaman forever on the infinite?

And what is the best way to fight the little robot? I am having some trouble with it. A little info on what I do –

With WM I just try to win the distance game by c.hp, beams and assists till duo or fly lk if he gets close. Mildly effective.
With Wolverine I get hit a lot by megabusters or even rockballs. Maybe I am too impatient.
With Strider I try to jump in, but its like to go after a Cable with a charater with no triangle jumps. I can pressure him with orbs, though.
With RV he dies. With GWM I die :slight_smile:

Any tips on Megaman vs rest of the cast? I would like to hear it from both sides (for and against Megaman) if anybody has the tiem and willingness to do it. I guess Lou would be the best partner against a Mega team (specifically Mega/WM), but who knows?

Tremendous thread. And MvC is a fun game after all :wink:

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vs. Megaman? Run up and block. You win.

I’m tired, so I’ll tell more tomorrow. Maybe.

96

you already mentioned it. c.hp->beam till duo.

his stupid plane super is good in this game

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Come on, dasrik, you know this game too well, when you get some rest post a big, huge "all you ever wanted to know about MM but waited until yesterday to ask " :slight_smile:

c. hp beam is pretty good, but sometimes MM jump dashes and catches WM. It is hard to do flight rushdown with the screen filled, and blocking I don’t build much meter.
My favorite character is probably Strider, but I can’t rush MM too well with him :frowning:

98

Okay, I’m up.

Megaman is a scrub killer, much like Blackheart in MvC2. He gets away with wins versus people who are rusty, but he seriously cannot hang against opponents who know how to play. The reason is pretty basic: MM cannot do anything against people who just run up and block until they get close enough to rush him.

Using this tactic, Wolverine can get close within at most three Megaman jumpback spazzes. Strider might take four, but it hardly matters because once he’s there he’s generally going to stay there. In fact, any other character with a decent dash can get in close quickly. The only characters who have problems using this tactic are Gambit, Hulk and Orange Hulk. And Gambit has other tactics.

War Machine shouldn’t rush Megaman at all; instead, he should super jump and smart bomb (when in doubt, bomb forward), land, call assist and repeat. When you get levels, duo. The infinite isn’t worth it unless you can do it without a hitch; otherwise, you’re going to consume too much mental energy. It’s better to just end your air combos with uncombo strong shoulder cannon.

The Gold War Machine matchup can be problematic until you remember the goal is to stay close, where Megaman can’t do jackshit to you. His jump fierce is not the God fireball it is in MvC2, so don’t worry about taking hits. As long as you stay close, you have nothing to fear from Beat Plane; just follow him up and bugzap him.

In general, Megaman loses. He can’t win the meter war, his duo is mediocre at best (Beat Plane requires placement and mashing, and Rush Drill can be dodged) and his primary tactic is easily beatable. Any other tactic (Rockball trap or laugh rushdown) is so easily trashed with a bit of thought that it’s not worth writing about.

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I think you’re underestimating MM a bit Dasrik. While he’s nowhere near top tier, Beat Plane is too fucking good.

He has a strong runaway game, and his rockball trap combined with helpers + jump back fierce + beat plane will definetely give alot of people problems, that’s when people get impatient and try to rush or jump blindly, thats when you can hit them with launcher, or any of his many combos into Beat Plane super. Hell, if you are in trouble, you can beat plane out of most of the situations in the game, every time…strider can’t lock down MM with orbs as freely, cause you can beat plane that shit, and Wolvie can’t rush in blindly anymore otherwise he’ll get hit by a combo.

But yeah, the problem is meter management, and you can’t keep the traps up forever of course. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think he’s better than he actually is but he’s definetely looked down upon. Also against experienced mvc1 players it’s kind of hard to do stuff with him effectively. Then again, noone plays this game anymore. ::stuck_out_tongue:

100

I guess you’re right, Art… I mean, I’ve played my fair share of Megaman and won, but I’m good at making opponents lose their cool. But in this game patience wins the day. Rockball trap doesn’t faze me unless I’m a Hulk, and even then I can afford to just move around and not attack and get in slowly. I also forgot about Beat Plane vs. Strider orbs, but since my Strider is all run up and forward slash I guess I didn’t think about it :wink:

So yeah, MM can have fun versus people without nerve, but against patient people… just a lot of work. And I can retain my cool in this game (unlike in MvC2 where Magneto and Sentinel make me cry).