Because it hurts the variety of the game. One of the interesting things about Marvel is all the disparate movement options that characters have. Additionally, prior games have shown that you don’t need an airdash to be a viable, and even dominant character.
In the series? Not really, largely because zoning is much more extreme so grapplers can’t consistently play at their preferred range. I think Zangief was solid in one of the pre-MvC1 titles (could one of you fightcade guys help?), but not nearly as strong as the MvC2/MvC3 top tiers. Without assists, it might be easier to make a grappler work, but you can’t walk someone down like in Street Fighter or another grounded game. You need some sort of consistent mobility. She-Hulk could do this with a few tweaks.
Does Super Skrull count as a grappler?
I may agree to some characters to have no air dash for those that are slow moving characters like Gief and Hugo if ever would be in a vs marvel, But air dashes should be now a majority to the cast.
There are still other better than and unique special air mobility option that makes every other characters unique like multiple jumps, triangular jumps, flight and 8 ways dashes. Having majority air dashes doesn’t destroy the game air mobility diversity because of others characters having those more better air mobility than airdash.
Plus Air Dashes can be also made to have unique properties like variants of speed and length or even gliding durations.
Because Air dashes also gives more options and edge to help those characters that is bound and limited by their traditional movesets from their originally intended design that is only to work in a different space of environment like Chun Li.
I’ve still not read a good reason as to WHY air dashes should be universal.
In MvC3, most characters had a way to manipulate their air movement, even if only slightly.
Hsien-Ko could walk in the air and use Senpu Bu up to 3 times. She was trash.
Hulk’s j.H made him stop mid air while doing the animation. KBR won Evo with him.
Air Mobility isn’t what makes a character good and so handing out Air Dashes to everyone isn’t going to make the tiers more diverse but in fact the opposite. If the game is based around everyone having air mobility, those with bad movement in the air are going to be instantly put into the trash because they can’t compete with those better. It’s like putting MvC2 Storm in the game forcing MvC3 Hsien-Ko to try and chase her down before she chips you to death.
Right now you’ve got characters like Vergil who don’t have an air dash (Outside of Devil Trigger) and he is the God of that game.
Giving characters their own tools is what gives more options, not giving every character the same move with a small tweak. All that will do is create overlap and put some characters into the bin before the game has been out a month. Magneto//Iron Man in UMvC3 is the perfect example of this.
I just don’t see a good enough reason to give everyone an air dash other than “Because everyone should have an air dash”.
Really hope air dashes aren’t universal. That’s one of the things I disliked about TvC.
Im not into universal air dashes but i believe it should have been a available atleast to a majority.
Zachara: Those example were misleading and flawed because it’s trying to justifying everything towards Hsien ko? Not every character that have different specials and properties or game origin and EVO victories is not solo character productivity and dependency.
Saying everyone had bad air movement will be automatically trash is pure misconception and contradicts some of your given example like using Hsien Ko saying her as trash despite her air mobility advantage.
Chunli having Air Dash in versus series has no sole purpose to chase or even beat Storm or Sentinel(in the future). The same reason of her having the first projectile move in CE has no sole reason to destroy or take down a particular character.
Chun’s origin FG was designed differently from XvS environment. The upgrade of Air Dash in her debut in the versus series is not designed to destroy or even a particular character that is assumed or expected to be better in the future, but to survive and adopt the overall new environment against the other character from other FG and other franchise that is designed freely from scratch or the first time that debut in any fighting game.
Spider-man had given an upgrade of Air Dash in the first MvC not solely to beat a particular character in the game or future gamea but to also to survive the environment.
Misleading/Flawed - Those were examples of a character with various options of air mobility and one that has arguably none. The one with the options is one of the worst characters in the game and the other is considered good enough to win the biggest tournament in the world.
The point being that air mobility isn’t the benchmark for top tiers or balance in the Vs series.
“Saying everyone had bad air movement will be automatically trash is pure misconception and contradicts some of your given example like using Hsien Ko saying her as trash despite her air mobility advantage.”
I don’t… How is that a misconception/contradiction? Perhaps you misunderstood my point but I fail to see how me saying -
isn’t saying that it doesn’t matter if you give a character air mobility options, if you make their tools mediocre overall, they’re still going to be trash.
In the scenario that everyone or the vast majority have an air dash, it limits the options of character selection because why would you take Magneto over Iron Man when Magneto does everything Iron Man does but better AND faster?
The point is if everyone has an air dash then there will be characters who are simply outclassed in that department and they will fall to the way side.
Hsien-Ko is trash despite her air mobility because her mobility is slow and pretty bad on top of her being terrible. Sure, she can stay at super-jump height for a while but she’s not doing anything with it like Storm would while running away. I find her to be a good example as to why air mobility doesn’t automatically give the characters some viability which seemed to be one of the points made on the previous page + I know her since I spend 3.5 years playing her before I cracked and went to team Clockw0rk.
I don’t think understand your points about characters not being given options to deal with specific characters so the following may not make sense.
You’ve listed characters that have been adjusted and given an air dash in order to deal with these different games that they’re in but that doesn’t mean that Everyone/The Majority needs one in order to “survive and adapt the overall new environment”. People have given examples of characters that defy that and show that air mobility options aren’t required for a character to be playable in their respective games and of characters that aren’t considered playable despite having air mobility.
Forget universal air dashes…what about otgs? Do you think they should return and should everyone have one?
Make them old OTGs and not new OTGs.
Maybe one launch per combo should come back too.
Based on what little footage we have, it seems as though re-launch combos are returning through tags, though I can see them placing a limit on the number of times you can tag mid-combo. I do like the old otgs though. It’s built into the system mechanics so everyone can use them, and you don’t have to worry about designing each character around them. You would also have a shorter window so no Doom t-bagging between relaunches (as funny as that was at times).
Old OTGs are good, but I hope that if MvCI does use them there will still be attacks that are overtly made to be used as OTGs.
I’m a knucklehead. I’m confident the tag-in system is how the devs intend to make grapplers more playable. Grappling teams could employ a carrier/payload strategy, where the carrier is a mobile point character that initiates a combo, and the payload (the grappler) tags in mid-combo to deal big damage and then follows with some scary grab mix-ups. Still, this makes me worry that the tag-in system will put even more emphasis on speed and/or flight characters than ever before. At this point, I’ll just have to wait and see. Tagging-out hasn’t been fully explained, the gems aren’t finalized, and there hasn’t even been a grappler revealed to judge.
I wish there is a team that works like you said, but I also wish that there will be a lot of viable teams, like mobile/grappler, battery/soul fisoul fist, mobile/damage, lock-on/mobile, and so on.
If we didn’t get gems, I think it work like I said, but I have the impression gems will make or break the game, like if speed gem on a brawler will still be weak against a power gem on a speedster.
Everytime I see someone mention grapplers in Mahvel, I think of Nemesis
And weep.
inhales
GIMME HUGO!!!
I’d rather they not put a hard limit on tags and instead use a cooldown of sorts. In any case, we already do see a combo with two tag ins in the extended trailer.
They put a hard limit on assist usage already. They should put a hard limit on tags or infinites either going to be so easy to find or they have to make the cooldown so slow that the game becomes boring.
Other limits should be no empty tagging in the air. These limits make sense.
Agreed. Easiest way is just to put a 2-tag limit on combos. They could also put tags on an ammo system, but that could get messy.
I have the feeling that they’re going to borrow from SFxT at times, similar to how they did for SFV. More specifically, I think the tag system from that game will be largely transported over:
-Raw tags are free, mid-combo tags cost meter
-Some type of move (launchers in SFxT) will allow for meterless tag ins where the partner can follow up, but the combo system will make doing it multiple times in a combo hard.
-Crossover counters, particularly in this game; will probably be a set move for each character
-Tag supers are made redundant by DHCs
-Cross Assault will be replaced with Dual Combination Attack from MvC1, may or may not keep the infinite meter bonus
I hope there’s no cost for mid combo tags. Need my crack