Move invincibility discussion/"oops, my mistake..."

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
1

I made a thread about meaty attacks versus invincible moves and roll cancels recently. Instead of deciding to have an actual adult discussion, all you cool srk forum readers decided to dismiss me as a “cock-sucking idiot” instead.

Well, just to let everybody know… I found the answer to my questions that caused me to make the thread in the first place.

Not all special moves commonly believed to have total body invincibility have total body invincibility.

Sagat’s HP tiger uppercut may have 7 of invincible frames, but none of those frames occur below his upper body. If anybody remembers the first match example I cited in the other thread, I know for sure now Yun (heck, any character’s) meaty d.LK will ALWAYS beat a wakeup HP tiger uppercut. If Sagat used MP or LP however, then oh well…

Next try the meaty Bison slide test against C-Sakura. Have Sakura do any of her wakeup level 3 supers (two which have 22 frames of invincibility) with reversal timing. Sakura trades?! wtf… stupid random fucking CvS2 right? Actually, no, not really. Turns out the invincibility for any of Sakura’s supers is only above the waist.

I was looking closer at my CvS2 book earlier and I noticed some Chinese words next to the number data for invincibility frames. Tested some stuff out in training and now everything is clear.

After some quick experimentation* (after finding out the above knowledge), I’ve concluded…

All roll canceled attacks, however, DO have total body invincibility

Sakura RC fireball will beat Bison slide cleanly. The timing is just ridiculously hard (ie. probably not worth the risk in tourney). I should of listened to my gut the first time the people I play with brought up the fact that wakeup RC’s might not totally be invincible.

What really disappoints me though, is the reason behind meaty attacks beating “invincible” moves thing. I’m only finding something like this out now because I bought some stupid book? To all the good players who must be too good to post here… Thanks for the heads up guys :).

*various moves used to test stuff:
-bison meaty slide
-chun meaty s.MP
-cammy meaty far s.HP
-sak wakeup rc fireball
-blanka wakeup rc eletricity
-balrog wakeup rc headbutt and dash punch

2

In anybody wants data or something for other specific moves that behave like Sagat’s tiger uppercuts or Sakura’s supers, I’ll be glad to share. I’m not really interested in sitting down to write one big ass nerd list or something like that though. Anybody else here feels compeled to do something like that, by all means…

You’ll be making a great contribution to the American CvS2 community :).

3

The book says Sagat’s fierce DP has 7 frames of full body invulnerability, which I’m positive is true.

The book also says Sakura’s level 3 fireball super has 20 frames of full body invul, which I haven’t extensively tested but I’m pretty sure is true also.

4

this kinda stuff was known(shoryuken type stuff having for fierce more upper body, and jabs have more low that kinda crap)since basicly give or take when the game came out.

5

WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU!? [starts name-dropping]

Hey, maybe you can go figure out that CC activation stuff… :slight_smile:

If I had one I’d type out a giant nerd list… But I’m a dork like that. Looks like I’ll have to get one for Xmas!

I’m suprised that you can hit Sakura’s lvl3 supers… Does the super flash happen at all? [hits power button on DC]

As for random CVS2, the other day I was Vice vs Rog. I did accidental point-blank d.HP vs Rog’s lvl3 Gigaton blow. I never got hit once… he just “pushed” me, then I hit him afterwards. It’s true! You CAN roll cancel normals! :slight_smile:

EDIT: My Sakura could hit Bison slide with reversal lvl3 supers easily. Super DP, Super FB, Super spinnykick all beat meaty RH slide cleanly everytime. Only once did I get reversal and also got hit. But then I didn’t super flash, so I assume I fucked up and got a FB or something.

ULTRA EDIT: So then I actually picked C-Sak instead of K-Sak to see if it would make a difference.

lvl1 super FB vs meaty slide = slide wins :frowning:
lvl2 super FB vs meaty slide = super FB wins
lvl3 super FB vs meaty slide = super FB wins
lvl1 super DP vs meaty slide = trade!
lvl2 super DP vs meaty slide = super DP wins
lvl3 super DP vs meaty slide = super DP wins
lvl1 super Spinkicks vs meaty slide = trade!
lvl2 super Spinkicks vs meaty slide = super Spinkicks wins
lvl3 super Spinkicks vs meaty slide = super Spinkicks wins

Reversal everytime, same results everytime.

6

But if sagat’s DP didn’t beat yun’s c.short (i’m not sure why this is your favorite move to test, picking up yun? :slight_smile: ) then it should also never beat a bison slide either… It’s possible that like in the previous thread the DP doesn’t actually hit yun or something.

The book was what said it was invulnerable, but now it reads differently? Then buk’s book reads different from yours? I’m confused, what’s going on, where am i?

Either sagats Fierce DP has 7 full body invulnerable frames, or it doesn’t. Now we have people testing the excat same thing and getting different results, so one of your tests is wrong lol. You guys need some capture cards.

But it’s good to know we can finally put that RC discussion to rest.

7

wtf?

Turns out the kanji in the cvs2 book says “zenshin” --> total body invincibility.

I swear I had the timing of Bison doing meaty d.HK recorded in training mode where he would actually TRADE with every one of Sakura’s reversal level 3’s. Only perfect reversal RC’s would beat the slide cleanly.

I looked at the CvS2 book to see what the heck was up with that, and I noticed some chinese words at the end of the numbers. I recognized “shen”, meaning body and I just assumed to the first word (which I didn’t recognize) to mean “upper” or something. I know for sure now it doesn’t.

I tried recording Bison doing meaty d.HK against Sakura and have her do reversal supers again just 5 minutes ago. wtf? Sakura supers now beat Bison clean.

Stupid random ass CvS2. Hopefully, you all agree I have no reason to lie about this… Bison meaty d.HK’s were seriously trading with my level 3 Sak supers yesterday when I was playing training mode.

I’m playing on a PS2 in the default training mode stage. C-Sak vs. i forget what groove Bison… I forget what ratios too.

I’m not going to make any theories on why something like that was happening this time (although I am now starting to suspect Bison slide has some kind of weird hit properties). I’ve presented my data… You guys can go figure it out how to explain it.

======================

edit: YES, the super flash would come out along with the trailing red shadows. There would also be a “reversal” message. Then Sak and Bison would trade with both characters getting the “counter hit” message. Their attacks both stop as they both go into the reel back animation.

8

I was going to say that I checked my same book and her supers are all invisible for “zenshin”=full body
I can understand most of the chinese characters
and pronouce the japanese characters (dunno what they mean tho :lol:)
You can ask me if you are not sure of some characters…
but my japanese is not good…

9

I dont think you would lie. I more take it that you cant reversal worth shit, so you dont even know what your doing.

10

How about you shut the fuck up, because you suck anyway. Go roll some more with Kim and Iori you scrub.

11

It’s hard to tell whats wrong without looking at it, it could be the PS2 version itself, or just something wrong in the test. Even if the test is faulty it’s weird that it would trade at all (if the super is in fact level 3). So if you can reproduce it let me know, otherwise i’ll just chalk it up to some random glitch.

12

Hey don’t be sad cause u got pwnt by Clayton.

13

I can’t reproduce the trading Bison slide, so I’m pretty much calling it quits now. Even if there really is something interesting going on here, it probably won’t produce anything useful or be practical in a real match anyway. I’ll be sure to upload a video if I ever do get lucky and have something goofy like this happen again though. You guys can make a new thread if anybody else finds anything too. I’m deleting this one in a few days, as the info I posted is accidentally fake :(.

14

Next time just double check with some other people before you post any new discoveries. The game’s system is pretty well known now, so I believe most of the exploits (Kim infinite, RC, tech throw glitch, etc) should be uncovered by now.

15

The most likely explanation is execution error. I highly doubt there’s something faulty with your version of the game.

16

cut n paste from other post:

edit: YES, the super flash would come out along with the trailing red shadows. There would also be a “reversal” message. Then Sak and Bison would trade with both characters getting the “counter hit” message. Their attacks both stop as they both go into the reel back animation.

I was testing with the same recorded Bison slides for over an hour. You’re trying to tell me I probably messed up my execution? Well, I must really suck then to mess up my reversal super and have it trade a least 50 times in a row.

I was honestly fooled into thinking that was how the game would really behave. I have no match experience using C-Sakura so I wouldn’t have known better anyway. But if I wasn’t seriously convinced for a while there (because I saw it with my own eyes), do you really think I would of taken the time to make a big thread about it?

17

When did I ever claim that I made a new discovery?

You make me sound like that retard in the 3S forum that found a NEW KEN COMbo!! 12 hits!!

18

This is the best way to double check with people, except for the 3-4 scrubs that poke their head in to talk shit and need to stay in GD or wherever the hell they hang out. In a year some japanese video will show the excat same glitch/trick/whatever it is anyway and then people will take notice.

19

No offence, but I honestly think you were timing the slides wrong. And you sound foolish calling FS a scrub.

20

Aren’t things like Bison slides trading with Sakura lv3s and Yun low shorts beating Tiger Uppercuts new discoveries? Anyway, my intention wasn’t to mock you in any way. Your enthusiasm for finding new things is commendable, but posting things as fact without getting a second opinion from somebody else can be misleading to a lot of other people here. Some people will just take what they read at face value and try to implement it into their games.

Anyway, the Yun low short thing piqued my interest since it sounded really exploitable. I went into training mode and messed with it for a while, and after trying it at several different ranges and degrees of meatiness, I was never able to beat a reversal Sagat DP even once. Am I not doing something right?