Most Skill Based Fighting Game?

[SSRagna]

Falco and Fox belong in real fighting games I give respect who can pull of shuffle shine spike that have link 1-3 frame window to do. the rest of the game cocks my balls

as for the most difficult fighters to get into at a tourney level have to be

VF (notable VF3, VF4: EVO, and VF5 haven’t played 5R yet)
Guilty Gear (XX, and Accent Core)
MvC2
Samurai Spirits (preferably VI)
Last Blade 2
SFIII: Third Strike
SFII: ST (very demanding game unlike some other games coughsfivcough)

(after the first two you can arrange the list however you like)

[Tech_Romancer]

people are forgetting FUC, every bnbs require tk cancels to do them:looney:

GG is other game that requires a lot of skill, but what game doesnt require skill at high level, its obvious that everyone would name their favorite game, so this kind thread is useless, the mvc players would say marvel, the sf would say sf, the gg player sould say gg, and so on; some people would name some obscure fg that they feel that deserves to be named , eventually a flame war would start cuz the fanboyism is always present

Execution does not = skill, although I would say the people who have their bnb down pat is a result of them practicing longer and hence would have a large advantage over a new player, mostly by maximizing their damage potential.

GGXX is good, has a great balance and its good mix of character balance to go along with mastering execution (such as FRC’s and meter build/use), although I do recall reading on dustloop someone linked an interview with the creator who said they purposely made it easier for people to pick up and play the game. Can’t remember the exact quote. Something about having a hard time with the game later rather than earlier.

BTW, Hetacom, you’re being too negative; I personally find this to be a great and fun topic. I’m making an effort to leave my bias at the door (I don’t like SFII or SFIII, but I recongize their depth). Looks like others are doing so as well.

Just don’t say DOA.

[deadfrog]

Are we gauging how difficult it is to become a top player in a given game?

… or are we gauging how decisively/consistently a given game shows the better player?

[System_1]

Karate Champ

[Tech_Romancer]

Are we gauging how difficult it is to become a top player in a given game?

… or are we gauging how decisively/consistently a given game shows the better player?

I assumed it was more of the second sentence (although to me the two go hand in hand somewhat), but I’ll wait until the OP says what his intent was.

[SaikyoBeast]

Hokuto no Ken. Any new player that picks up a controller against an expert player will barely have enough time to pick their character before they will already be dead.

Never heard of this game. I’ll youtube it.

Clearly, however, this is not the best/only criteria for judging how “skill-based” a game is.

For sure. I see only three types of “skill”, and please correct me if I’m wrong:

Technical, the ability to input difficult comboes and…uh…inputs.
Yomi, the ability to read your opponent and know when to use your technical skills.
Intellectual, your knowledge of the game’s mechanics and matchups.

How much depth a game has or how viable for high level play it is dictated by how much they (meaning the programmers/developers) emphasize one, two, or all three of the types.
Of course, take this with a grain of salt. I’m neither Sirlin nor Danc nor anyone else with experience in game design or writing about game design. I’m sure my point of view is flawed somehow.

[SSRagna]

^ he means that even though it’s the best anime fighter ever (except jojo’s bizzare adventure of course) it’s broken so you can combo into you’re lol dead instant kill super so hence people who know these will rape noobs into oblivion But beside s that Hokuto No Ken is an awesome fighting game

[bucklemyshoe]

Can someone link me to a high level virtua fighter match?

[VirtuaFighterFour]

1. VF4FT/EVO
2. VF5/VF5R
3. ST

The mind games involved in playing VF are nerve wracking, there are so many variables to keep track of it’s exhausting, combine that with having to constantly input commands and always think three or four moves ahead, it puts VF in an almost unplayable state for most people. And even then, going from mid to high level play requires an unfathomable time investment compared to most fighting games, and that’s just for one character. Achieving consistent high level play with two characters in VF is a rarity for good reason. I don’t possibly see how any list could have VF out of the top three.

On to ST. ST has very strict timing on almost every high level technique, early attacks, safe jumps, reversals, walk up 360s, most combos are very tight…and you have to factor in the speed of the game and the insane concentration required to deal with whatever unique character matchup you have.

That doesn’t mean that other fighters aren’t easy. 3S, Marvel, Tekken, BB, GG, etc. all have insanely difficult and high level techniques, inputs, and strategies. But VF is in it’s own league, and ST moves at such a furious pace (in my opinion of course) that it just slightly edges out the rest of the competitive fighting games on my list.

That being said there is no real competitive fighter that at high levels doesn’t require insane inputs skills and an incredibly mindset.

Can someone link me to a high level virtua fighter match?

[media=youtube]uKmcZVRvsfA&feature=channel_page[/media]
These matches are from Sega nationals in Japan. About as high level of VF as there is.

[media=youtube]hjApDVlzGck[/media]
Here’s a good match from the first VF4 national tournament in Japan.

[media=youtube]pQop4_NtOpY&feature=channel_page[/media]
Go to around 6:00 in this video. It’s Itazan (aka Itabashi Zangief) in the finals of another national tournament.

[media=youtube]hW-wwgG3DKI&feature=channel_page[/media]
Here’s a VF5R match showing the new (or old) character Taka-Arashi.

http://zoome.jp/hetarei/diary/206
VF5R Akira vs Lion in HD with VF1 music.

http://zoome.jp/oir/diary/53
VF5R Wolf vs Eileen at 60fps.

[Tweleve]

I think JJBA is a great game.

It has characters accessible for beginners AND compensates for people looking to go really in depth. I barely play it anymore, but even so I can still pick up Hol Horse and hold my own against S.Dio or Vanilla Ice.

[Tech_Romancer]

Can someone link me to a high level virtua fighter match?

Ask and ye shall receive!

[media=youtube]ezAM3oe0Ez0&feature=PlayList&p=ADBCE6B963F97792&index=17[/media]

[media=youtube]H17f9q6m7EM&feature=PlayList&p=ADBCE6B963F97792&index=11[/media]

[media=youtube]-aG2iyl43bs&feature=PlayList&p=ADBCE6B963F97792&index=54[/media]

[media=youtube]ZoVr0hH319E&feature=PlayList&p=ADBCE6B963F97792&index=55[/media]

Want more, just browse the playlist. Me and my crew are pretty decent as well, but these official replays are top of the line stuff.

[AlterGenesis]

Even VF play at a mid-tier level is a mind-fuck and because of that it’s fun. Here are two matches of me playing a good Kage in WCG qualifiers from a while back.

[media=youtube]-fdZ1Uf29YU&feature=channel_page[/media]
[media=youtube]V3Eiz1DtNso&feature=channel_page[/media]

[ElderGOD]

MvC2
GG
VF

[Phoenix_Azure]

Garou, VF, 3s

[bucklemyshoe]

Thanks for the links.

[Zazzarius]

GGXX is good, has a great balance and its good mix of character balance to go along with mastering execution (such as FRC’s and meter build/use), although I do recall reading on dustloop someone linked an interview with the creator who said they purposely made it easier for people to pick up and play the game. Can’t remember the exact quote. Something about having a hard time with the game later rather than earlier.

i think i know the interview you’re talking about, but i think that quote was in relation to them making Blazblue easier to get into

[gridman]

VF5
ST/hdr
Mvc2

[Dandy_J]

0. quake
1. mvc2
2. vf (all)
3. gg/hnk/jojos/tons of games really…edit samurai 4…fuckin efz too.

[d0c_zaius]

1. Hokuto no Ken
2. VF5
3. GG:AC

[KaizenStrife]

does Rumble Fighter count??lol

IMO its VF…