damn you, I came here to just to make a similar joke.
morrigan is secretly top tier, air soul fist, fly, df air dash shell kick is unstoppable. it works online and thats all that matters, tourmeys are for squares
Screw all the naysayers, I support Morrigan and those glorious bountiful boobies that cling to her chest ever so nicely.
I prefer top tier players of a character over top tier characters. Not every character can be top tier out the box and it’s better to have characters that are more so pushed to top tier by the players like Dante or Viper than top tier out the box like Wolverine and Wesker.
Top players are going to end up being the best Morrigan players because just like Haggar…they’re just going to run her assist with lame out characters and then all of a sudden just like Haggar…Morrigan is all of a sudden one of the big characters in tournaments. Which wouldn’t be terrible considering Morrigan has a completely better offensive game by herself than Haggar.
Like I said in the earlier thread…cards have been dealt and you at this point you gotta just put in the time with the character on point (which is still completely better and more untapped than say Hsien Ko or Chun Li) or just throw her in the back and whore her assist like some top players will eventually be doing with characters like Hawkeye, Strider and Vergil.
I’m gonna go ahead and agree with you times infinity.
…The Fuck?
You really think that Dante wasn’t designed to be top-tier out of the box? Seriously???
Strider…a very slight MAYBE.
Vergil on the other hand has shown no indication that he needs any help building meter. For Hawkeye, he probably need either a low assist or “get the fuck off me” assist more than Dark Harmonizer.
I think you keep vastly overrating how potent keepaway is going to be in this game, and how Dark Harmonizer (which isn’t any faster in Ultimate) is going to be as ubiquitous an assist on tournament teams as Tron and Haggar were.
None of the early play from tournament players has indicated that rushdown is that much less dominant. In fact with Tron and Haggar nerfed a bunch of characters who were retarded at locking lower tier characters down (Dante, Wesker, Zero) are now going to be even worse match-ups for most characters.
I have yet to see a single team win by runaway zoning and chip a la Strider/Doom or Blackheart/Spiral/Sent in UMvC3.
Also keep in mind that by picking Dark Harmonizer for your team and placing Morrigan as anchor, you severely gimp your team offensively because your point character will only have one assist that can actually affect the opponent directly. So that means that one mistake with your point character, they’ll most likely be dead and now your 2nd character is in with absolutely no assist to help lock down, get the opponent off you, help you OTG, and all the things that many characters vitally need to compete on point.
5 minutes with Dante doesn’t even come close to allowing you to destroy the entirety of the cast. 5 minutes with Wolverine does, hence Wolverine is top tier “out of the box” and Dante is not as you need to practice with him.
So then what? 30 minutes?
In MvC3, there really isn’t a learning curve at all for basically anyone close to the top except maybe Viper. Mags only requires execution, which isn’t a big deal at all to the guys who used him in MvC2 for 10 years.
Phoenix is Teletubbies, Wolverine is Blue’s Clues, Wesker is Dora the Explorer, and Dante is Sesame Street.
At the end of the day, it’s all kid’s stuff.
This is Dark Harmonizer’s biggest weakness. You need characters that can survive, even thrive, without assists at all. It’s a small list.
And you’re posturing on the internet. I really don’t want to hear how easy pushing buttons is from someone who couldn’t follow simply math with it having laid out in front of him in the style of a proof. I find depreciation on a tax return easy enough to do in my sleep - other people insist that it’s difficult after being in the profession for 30+ years.
Coming into a game, with over 10 years of experience at doing the same things in the game doesn’t make things easy just because you’ve honed the necessary skill set, especially when a lot of that comes from natural dexterity and not practice anyway. When I say I have bad execution I don’t mean I can’t do something because I haven’t put in the time to practice it - I’ve spent over 50 hours trying to get Magneto’s day one jump loop down in this game and still can’t do it more than one attempt in 30. I’ve spent hundreds of hours working with Morrigan in practice, and am only now starting to approach viability on loops that were posted in this forum on day 2, and make the constant deluge of “Morrigan has bad damage” completely laughable.
Dante’s combo execution, the part of his gameplan that is difficult, is actually difficult, even when compared to the real ROM. The ROM was essentially super jump motions on the stick, not rapid, repeated double special move inputs, Dante is much more comparable to Sentinel’s shit in vanilla Marvel 3. Dante’s neutral game is easy to execute yes, very much so, but without the long ass combos to threaten ToD and generate 3+ meters, it’s also not that scary.
Morrigan here actually has some of that MvC2 Sentinel shit, with the caveat that you can only do it once per jump since there is no relfy. Some of Morrigan’s combos do require immediate unfly after activating fly to be able to get the proper air dash trajectory though.
TL;DR: Not everyone has the same natural dexterity as everyone else, and the differences may be such that no amount of practice can ever actually overcome that gap. Posturing about how older games were harder does not actually make new games easy by default, only easy in comparison. And this time in Marvel 2’s lifespan, they hadn’t even adapted the ROM into Marvel 2 yet as far as i remember. Sub-one year shit in MvC2 was fucking piss easy as well.
You definitely bring up some good points but I don’t think you’re seeing everything either.
Everyone knew Dante was going to be a character that was hard to not be top tier. If they’re basing the characters on what they can do in their respective games…there’s no way Dante was not going to be top tier. It was just by design of making sure a character works as close as they do to their original respective game as possible. That’s also why Arthur will most likely never be a scary character in tourneys outside of XF3 sheaningans. There’s nothing I didn’t see coming it’s just obvious not every character in fighting games can be at a high tier. It’s just the way they work out.
Of course no early tourney play has indicated anything because…it’s early play. If you’re talking about Vanilla…that game doesn’t even exist anymore and a lot has changed where more zone oriented characters could definitely give characters like Zero who trump any other rushdown character some real problems.
No early tournament play indicated that Zero would start blowing up major tournaments (tons of people had every reason for why he was too risky for big tourneys), No early tournament play indicated that Viper would blow things up (too execution heavy, normals not good enough), No early tournament play indicated that Tokido’s blow meters and XF at the start of a round on a Phoenix team would blow up tournaments.
Early tournament play suggested that Sentinel would run shit and that Wolverine was going to be number one forever.
PLUS…who’s to say that you have to put Morrigan as anchor? You can easily put her in a 2nd spot…make sure she has a good assist backing her up and you have a solid team right there. If you’re that afraid of not having a lockdown assist you can just put her 2nd like I’m doing in my side team. All it requires is using a character with a strong, game changing assist that’s completely better on point than Haggar or Hsien Ko. I’m fine with putting the work in on that so Morrigan still gets an assist + XF2 bonus if needed.
Honestly, this really is a logical fallacy. Most teams only actually use one assist anyway, and they don’t really go for redundancy. The second exists entirely as combo extension, if that.
Look at Wolverine/Wesker/Akuma - there’s only one assist on this team. That Samurai Edge OTG doesn’t do much for Wolverine at all, it’s simply something you can to keep a combo going when Akuma was used to get in. Berserker Barrage is the same deal - it simply allows Wesker to still do his relaunch combo if Akuma was used to start the combo. And neither of them do shit for Akuma.
To use Harmonizer you simply need to take a pair of characters that thrive with extra meter, where one of them would have been forced into the anchor slot normally anyway, and then replace the second point character with Morrigan. Wolverine/Akuma/Morrigan is perfectly viable for example, if you can find ways to spend the excess meter. or Wesker/Doom/Morrigan. Hell, Morrigan doesn’t even have to be in the anchor slot, she just out performs most other characters you could put there - in that Wolverine/Akuma/Morrigan example there’s an argument for her meter feeding Akuma with XF2, or playing her out with the Akuma assist and leaving Akuma at anchor. Zero/Tron/Morrigan is another one that’s highly abusive - being able to build meter in Sougenmu, or sustain Sougenumu powered keep-away for long periods of time is actually fairly broken. Most Morrigan teams should actually use the Phoenix team template, and then take it in the opposite direction - pick a pair of characters that work well together, and throw Morri in the back - she simply allows those first tow characters to be massive meter whores instead of batteries.
With the second combo extension becoming extremely worthless for most characters in Ultimate, and some assists no longer even allowing for a single extension, Harmonizer gains a lot of ground.
Also, why the hell would Harmonizer need to be faster? It’s already the fastest assist in the game. It’s tied for smallest vulnerability window, it’s unstoppable, and it has the shortest refresh time of any assist.
Harmonizer faster? Yeah let’s just make her not appear on the screen but still give the character meter. That’s the only way it could be faster. As soon as she waves her hand and the point character flashes purple you can’t touch her anymore. In comparison to say Ammy who makes a BIG LONG HOWL and you can hit her the whole time even after the point character has received the meter.
Well, for me, I like Dark Harmonizer to be my primary assist, and not merely one that I call in lieu of a relaunch at some point if I happen to get a combo in. I can certainly understand someone using it as a secondary assist, but to me the assist is so strong that it’s worth orienting a team around; Dark Harmonizer is my Akuma Tatsu or Sentinel Force.
Just to be clear, you meant to ask someone else this, right? I certainly don’t think this. I love Dark Harmonizer as it is.
Haha, that would be hella cheap, especially in Marvel 3.
Yeah, that was in response to Shiki’s edit, which is why it was in a separate paragraph.
In response to it being primary, or secondary, honestly, it’s fast enough I call it often in the neutral game, and still get to use a “primary” beam or lockdown assist whenever need it anyway.
Calling that other assist is still time that could be going to Dark Harmonizer’s meter building!
Haha.
Plus, part of the reason I like Dark Harmonizer is that it starves my opponent of meter. There’s something hilarious about me having 5 bars 20 seconds into a fight, and my opponent hasn’t gotten a full bar since the one he started with.
Spoiler
I SUMMON THE POWER!
Right because one certain character’s specific hyper does xx% more damage, that must mean all mashable hypers must all have the same increase.
And I’m not posturing myself on anything. My execution is shit. To me unfly combos in this are just as beyond my realm of reliably being to able perform in a tournament match as the MvC2 unfly combos.
But for most of the top tournament players, who are ALL Marvel veterans (except for like…PR Rog and most Phoenix players), you can’t tell me that Dante’s shit is that difficult for people who played MvC2 at high level for 10 years.
And no, I’m not stating that Dark Harmonizer needs to be faster–that’s not the point.
The point is that the assist isn’t any better in UMvC3 and to state that it’s going to be a game-changing God-tier assist just because keepaway is SUPPOSED to be better is jumping the gun.
And the problem with DH with Morrigan as the 2nd character, is like I said, since the game has devolved into popping X-Factor and killing your opponent’s best character (which will PROBABLY be your 1st character, you know, since you’re using DH assist) means that on your first mistake your point is dead, Morrigan is coming in about to face a mix-up from an X-Factored character, and your whole team strategy of building off the meter assist is flipped over with the table.
The ONLY team that works with Morrigan as a 2nd is a Phoenix anchor team, and that’s only because your opponent’s going to snap in Phoenix on the 1st hit instead of killing your point.
I’d like to know where you guys are where people let you run away for 20 seconds and not get hit once, because I need to start hitting those up.
You don’t need to run away for 20 seconds to make use of Dark Harmonizer, and if that’s something you want to, you can already accomplish it with Storm. It’s really not hard. You also don’t need to build 5 bars before you spend them, and it’s not just as a zoning boost - characters like Zero and Dante benefit greatly from the increased meter flow, as will Vergil and likely Strider. You can call DH every 2 seconds of real world time, and that is significantly faster than any other assist in the game. Morrigan is also far from a bad character in the second slot, as she’s a DHC glitch finisher.
The reason it’s more powerful in Ultimate, is because 1.) Combo extensions with a second assist and even many first assist is just not going to work the same at all, 2.) There’s been a 10% meter gain reduction, meaning a combo that built say, 110% meter before now only generates 99%, that’s a big difference for some characters that barely build the one meter they spend in their B&Bs and a huge difference for characters that already run at a meter deficit and at a distant third, because it does help keep away teams greatly, which will be stronger overall. Add the X-factor minimum scaling change in, and you won’t be seeing nearly as much of the blow through the first two characters crap like you do right in all likelihood.
There’s a few characters who absolutely thrive with Harmonizer behind them, and for the most part they’re characters who don’t really give a fuck about assists, they’re nice if you have them, but not critically needed. Characters like Phoenix (play her point with Harmonizer, rock healing field, finish combos with Rage, still get 5 bars), Storm, or Dormammu. Those three characters with that kind of meter income can easily handle entire teams, especially since Morri is a DHC glitch partner for Storm in vanilla.
Yeah Storm or Dorm with meters 3 plus meters after only 15 seconds into the the fight = the other team basically loses their ability to call assists.
While I feel like Morrigan still isnt going to be winning any tourneys, shes not so bad. I’d really like Jedah in this game, however. He’s the most suited for the vs series.