Your last point is silly. Any match where you mistime a punish has consequences. Learn to do it right.
I run Morrigan on anchor (Dark Harmonizer). It only takes me 5 in-game seconds to get that second bar. I’ve forgotten what it’s like to not have meter to use whenever I want.
Also, this is killing Strider. It’s totally worthwhile to burn even 2 bars and X-Factor to kill Strider anchor unless your opponent is running Vergil, because he’s a very frustrating matchup for Morrigan.
My point is that its not as simple as just reacting to vajra coming out and punishing it. Your opponent is constantly moving around whilst calling Vajra, theyre not just gonna let you get away with punishing it most the time and theyre not gonna put you in a situation where punishing it is easy.
Dont forget Shadown servant dhc into chaotic flame is unsafe. Vergil can punish chaotic flame with stinger so even if you do punish vajra in that manner you’re still probably gonna get hit and possibly lose the game.
Get the forum fighter bullshit out of here. “It’s not easy to punish people when they play safely” isn’t even a point in this discussion. I won’t even go through all the possible responses to your second paragraph because it’s so much off-topic nonsense. It really drives me nuts when people take good advice and try to drag it down with something that boils down to “Oh yeah, well when are you going to do that if they don’t let you?”, as if I said more than I did, which was merely to present an option that might help some people to think about.
you can’t always just sit there and wait for the golden opportunity to punish vajra assist. if people call assists that are hard to punish, like hidden missiles or vajra, i go astral spam on them. astral spam = no assist calls, no raw tags/dead assist or dead raw tag, and pressure + chip.
thanks to online, i can’t even punish assist vajra with dr. strange’s spell on vishanti. astral spam works for me; even if vajra doesn’t get called during bullet hell, point vajra is easier to deal with.
Right, but that’s the most difficult thing to pull of against the pairing we’re having trouble with (Vergil/Strider). It’s difficult to get AV going because of them, and even if you do get it she still has long recover where they can get you before you start gaining more momentum.
I only get to play people twice a week, but I’m going to try something new tomorrow, and that’s going to be trying to play a barebones rushdown Morrigan. My thought process for the past couple days has been, “If I’m not doing as many QCF/QCB motions, then that means less messed up inputs. If I’m not constantly trying to run for my life, that means less time for the opponent to set something up against me.” By trying to limit my play to only what’s necessary (instead of constantly trying to find any space to throw a random Soul Fist), I can limit the chances of me getting hit, without forcing myself into an entirely defensive playstyle. I figured by using Plasma Beam ( I could use something like Disruptor too, but my Magneto is…subpar) instead of Hidden Missiles, I don’t have to worry about protecting Doom for a long duration, and I get better, quicker ground coverage (where Vergil is most dominate, as we know). Then, if I ever get a hit with Plasma Beam, while I might not be able to convert off it I’ll be able to activate AV.
It’ll be tough trying to maintain proper spacing where I’m far enough so that I’m not in range of Vergil’s sword, but I’m close enough to dash in with a j. L/S. I’m going to try this strategy against point Vergil teams, but I bet it could work against other strong anti-Morrigan teams. I worry about how difficult it’ll be to control my movement, but that’s the fun part about playing Morrigan:)
Yup, pure rushdown with no wasted inputs seems like the best strategy against Vergil. Unless Vergil/Vajra has a beam on their team they cant punish hidden missiles assist call that well so you dont have to bother protecting it with soul fists that could potentially have their inputs messed up. I’ll report back the next time I get a good offline set in with a Vergil/Vajra player because theres no point really theory fighting. Also if any morridoom player gets some footage of them playing against a good vergil/vajra they should post it up.
Karst I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this. I guess I do come off as a bit negative because a bunch of people both in real life and from these forums have told me Vajra isnt that hard to deal with and none of these supposed ‘counters’ have reliably worked for me and I havent seen much video evidence of it. So I just dont agree they are as effective as people say. That and the fact that Vajra based teams just shut down how I want to play completely (I love to run away throwing projectiles at super jump height) just makes me really hate that assist.
I played against Zeu$ (I assume you’ve seen him post around here) in a recent tourny of ours, but he was playing C Viper/Dante/Strider. I’ll try to dig up my footage against a Vergil/Stider here.
Skip to 3:33:40
Basically, it’s my team gettin’ bopped (especially my lackluster Doom and Ammy). Still working on my tournament nerves too (first time on stream!), but hey, I got 3rd place and I’m proud of it XD
Man, do i use a lot of parentheses…
Lol you were getting by the exact shit I was talking about against that king anime guy. Get hit by teleport + vajra when your unfly input gets messed up then OTG xf from vergil.
I think Vajra is fine to deal with against characters without teleports. Viper with vajra is perfectly winnable imo. You did fine against it.
Realistically, I consider Vajra unpunishable as an assist. Sometimes it gets blown up like Dark Harmonizer, which actually is humanly unpunishable on reaction, but they get stuffed before they do their thing (or while for harmonizer). If you have good audio, and have good auditory reactions, you can beat Vajra against non teleporters, but once you factor in a teleport, forget about it.
From the perspective of someone who constantly calls Varja like a beam for Wesker, I have never lost it to an actual, deliberate punish, I have lost it to simply being stuffed, or someone trying a desperation hyper to deal with what my point character was already doing.
Yeah, I didn’t think I was doing too bad against Viper, I just dropped a couple combos (nerves :/). Against King Anime, it’s just so frustrating that that team is literally one touch -> dead. Poor Doom, just floppin’ around…
I’m gonna try out a team of Morrigan/Doom/Lariat next time I get a chance to play a vergil/vajra player. Lariat is a good wakeup call for nuts although I do believe lariat is more of a gimmick nowadays. The fact that Morrigan can get a nice full combo off of it is nice too.
Could be a gimmick, but it’s worth a shot.
LOL he switched vergil for zero in the beginning of the match. he better!
just wondering, why were you backing away from vergil in the beginning of the match?
anyways, pretty much the same thing that would happen to me if i went up against that team. you did nothing wrong, but you still lost =/
one thing i did notice is that his vergil would freeze up and block high when you would dash towards him. he was obviously waiting to pushblock shell kick. you probably could have got him with anything else.
I back away because I figure better safe than sorry to try to risk being up close lol.
So today I got a ton of matches in, but not as many with the matchup I was hoping for (vs. Vergil). I think a rushdown Morrigan will be our best bet against Vergil, but I gotta adapt my playstyle first. I want to use Soul Fist to cover my approach, but I also want to use j.L, so I gotta throw an extra fly cancel in there, as opposed to just derpin’ in with j. s and getting pushblocked. Forgot to use Plasma Beam too:/
I played quite a bit against Viper, and man that’s tough too. Seismo covers so much space, and keeps you from calling assists. I don’t have much Viper experience, so I was getting blown up by a lot of EX moves as well. I don’t think this matchup is unwinnable though, i just have to be even more careful when I try to approach, or call an assist.
Another one, which surprised me because I didn’t have much trouble with it before, was Hawkeye. I don’t think Hawkeye is so bad, but when paired with missiles…Holy crap. Soul Fist is too slow to snipe Doom, and Piercing Shot wrecks all your Soul Fist. I think because of Morrigan’s forced air movement there’s really no way for you to get in, unless you have a beam assist. I ran Disruptor, and that helped a ton, but it still felt like an uphill battle.
All in all, things are getting tougher and tougher. I’m beginning to see the flaws in trying to zone top tier characters/pairings, but I haven’t quite adjusted to it yet. Just need more experience…
Morrigan and Doom share a lot of bad match ups because they both have forced air movement. They don’t share them to the same degree, but bad matches are pretty damned overlapping between them.
any advice for dealing with cap? its hard to get started with him throwing the shield constantly pinning me down. when they add assists like strider it gets even tougher. im runnin morridoom.