Yo,… WHen you get this message im still hosting. I am AyaIArima On monster. We got disconnected
Right, but my impression was that it might be possible to double jump back after the 3rd DP to cross the opponent up and continue the loop. Though, I’m not sure if Delga’s jump attacks are fast enough.
Same with T-Siely actually. I was under the impression that she could wall-slam loop with his shifted 41236a move, which ends when she crosses up. But I was thinking she might be able to extend the loop with ice spike and air dive to get on the other side and continue the loop.
But again, I dunno 'cuz I haven’t tested yet.
Sorry, haven’t checked to see if anyone corrected me, but Freedom 623B IS slower than the normal one. Still faster than the Monster version though, and usable as a poke here and there.
EDIT: Also, was I on crack, or can Delga score powerbreaks with the Freedom command grab? I know it’s impossible with the Normal & Monster ones, but I swear this happened.
Man I am getting hooked on this ish! =)
All I know about Freedom Delga’s command grab is it’s blockable and will grab airborne opponents.
From 2/3 (or more) away from corner:
61234A xx j.A, j.B, B, 66B, 623B, SHIFT, j.A, j.B, B, 66B, 623B xx B, 66B, 22B
From 1/2 Screen:
61234A xx B, j.A, j.B, B, 623B, SHIFT, B, 623B xx B, 66B, 22B
From less than 2/3 Screen:
61234A xx j.B, B, 66B, 623B, SHIFT, j.A, j.B, B, 66C, 22B
In the corner:
61234A xx j.A, j.B, B, 66B, 623B, SHIFT, j.A, j.B, B, 66C, 22B
These are the best combos that I can come up with for now. They can be real hard to time, but you’ll get it down after some practice. Oh, and in that third combo, the first j.B is the air combo cross-up B. Wait a second, jump, hit B late.
I’m fairly sure this is common knowledge by now. At least to Delga players (and the others that play Monster quite a bit).
It’s not possible to hit them after that last DP. You won’t recover in time to jump, and they fall faster with each wall-bounce.
It’s not a grab. It’s an actual attack.
I saved the replay when you did that to me - automatically saves it for you too. I didn’t know F-Delga’s command grab became an attack… so my head pretty much exploded when you got that powerbreak and I was suddenly in front of you instead of being midair… and very grabbed.
Coming soon to a Monster match near you: me attempting to do T-Siely 41236A loops, failing, and getting angry. ^^
Late info for those who don’t loiter in the IRC channel.
Japanese Monster Tier Update:
S - Ryuogen
A - Maya
B - Delga
C - Othello, Rail
D - Katze, Siely
E - Orju, Aleksandr
Ryuogen is of course God Tier as everybody has been able to agree upon. He maybe 1 somewhat annoying matchup against Othello, but nobody else is really a threat to him.
T/F-Maya is known to easily shutdown a lot of characters when played well.
Delga’s command grab is broken, that’s why he’s ranked in the top 3. Despite how he was ranked by us american players, the japanese have come to this conclusion after much more play than us. I can’t really disagree with them, Delga’s game is just that powerful with the inclusion of that ridiculous throw.
Oh how the mighty have fallen, Othello is still pretty strong, but he’s top anymore because in my opinion, his offense has been exposed to be very linear. No real reliable overhead without shift and though he can still get high damage off just one of his long range pokes, he’s still particularly easy to read and defend against. Rail is pretty much the same still, but with news that M-Rail is actually quite powerful and just as viable as F-Rail, maybe more so. His strengths lie in that he can runaway quite well in M and a lot of people who have never experienced his runaway in this mode won’t know what to do to counter it.
Katze has fallen quite a bit, it was a huge surprise as with how low Othello was placed, but we began to realize that the reason he was low as well was really random situations where his BnB just didn’t combo and the opponent would be able to randomly block. Also an issue with his Super is that it doesn’t always fully hit making times where you might PB your opponent and the last hit of your 236C super will just whiff for no damage. Waste of meter and inconsistent damage/combos drop him from the higher ranks. Siely hasn’t moved, she’s still right above bottom tier and what we know about her before is still pretty much the same and unquestioned.
Here comes the kicker, Orju has fallen. This is a really harsh fall too and a lot of us in IRC have been dumbfounded by why he’s ranked this low. Orju has a lot of strong tools, but it seems as though it’s because of lack of consistency in his combos that drop him as well. Freedom was believed by the japanese to be Orju’s best mode, but a lot of people here still think T-Orju is better just because of the safeness of this mode for Orju. It’s still pretty unknown as to why Orju is believed to be this low on the boards as our answer was badly babelfished and we couldn’t really get any other clearer answer at the moment. With him standing along side Aleksandr which we all know won’t be leaving last place on the tier list anytime soon, we have to wonder what’s going to happen during the next update since it should include new netcode as well as character balances.
I might have remembered wrong as this was posted and discussed yesturday in the IRC channel and if you were there you could have been included in the discussion as well as asked questions! Well, correct me if I missed anything and for those of you who are interested in the game or even worst, playing the game without paying us a visit, join us on IRC! Server EFnet, Channel #8105Monster.
Yeah, I don’t see it. T-Orju is at least better than Siely. F-Orju is amazingly good too, but I still believe T-Orju is better. I personally rank T-Orju on the same level as Rail.
T-Siely should be near top. Once she’s in Tranquility mode, you can’t move against her, since her moves are alot easier to do on reaction than other moves, and go much further (qcb+B “homing in” against opponents who jump). It would seem that you’re forced to just wait out her mode before doing anything. I don’t see why she’s low tier at all, the main reason may be because most people think all she has is the forward dash (which is counterable), which is obviously not true.
Delga being top tier is really only because people do not seem to know how to avoid throws…I’ve seen some retarded gameplay with people just running right into Delga. Most Delga opponents I see just don’t stop going for the throw, no matter what. They’ve obviously ignored other parts of his gameplay. They even mash the throw between your combos, hoping you mistime things (and with the lag, that’s bound to happen). T-Siely for example, is horrible matchup for Delga, as long as she keeps away, he can’t really do anything.
It really depends, I’ve played Rogueyoshi’s Siely with Aleks and I find it a lot more difficult to beat F-Siely over T-Siely. T-Siely is very punishable whereas F-Siely is not. There are times you can attack T-Siely whereas F-Siely you really have to pay attention and watch how you block against her.
I disagree. I’m very jump happy, but against Delga it becomes different. Once he knocks you down, he can effectively pin you down. With Siely, it might be a bit easier since she’s off the ground so much, but really only 2 characters can really do this well and that’s M-Rail along with any rendition of Siely. 2 out of 9 characters that can deal with Delga doesn’t mean much. He is a force to be reckoned with against a lot of characters because he can just as easily blow you out of the air. Siely has very fast jump attacks and characters with slow air attacks can’t beat her out of the air, but not every character has a move like Siely’s j.C.
Aleks has a tough fight against Delga because of this. j.A is the only real effective move if you have just been knocked down by Delga because it’s his fastest attack. j.A as soon as you get off the floor and j.A again right before you hit the floor allows you to run away after if you time it right… IF you time it right. Delga can counter this by backdashing after getting hit by the first j.A and then 66b and then combo you. It’s the most horrible situation ever for Aleks because it’s pretty much his only choice after getting knocked down by Delga.
For those who don’t understand the situation. On knockdown, Delga’s BEST option is to command grab you. In the case of Aleks, he has no throw so he cannot try to throw Delga out of it. He cannot backdash because he can’t backdash out of Delga’s throw range. He cannot attack because he will just get grabbed. He can only jump, but j.B and j.C are far too slow to hit right away and Delga recovers BEFORE the moves come out so Delga can either backdash and then 66whatever tick throw Aleks when he comes down again or he can just spam 5A and knock Aleks back down again. This leaves the above options. j.A which gets nullified by the fact that Delga can just jab you out of it after you hit him because you can’t combo j.A into anything on a standing character. Jumping back into a corner is worst for you because Delga can do more damage with wall bounce and jumping forward doesn’t do anything for you because he still recovers before you and Aleks has no good cross-up in that situation (compared to Siely where she can just hit C and be safe or just float to the side of the screen).
Though this might be a bad example, but the fact of the matter is, a lot of characters end up being put into similar situations over and over again with Delga. Delga doesn’t need to change up his play style for most characters, but most characters must do so to fight Delga.
When can you attack T-Siely?
The problem with F-Siely rushdown, is if you can block it well enough, you’re going to build a lot of points. Although rogueyoshi generally rushes down until your points are slightly less than his, then he backs down.
Jump-happiness can be easily beaten by just running underneath the opponent. I’ve seen some Delga’s jump spam with his jump B, and while it has pretty good priority, I don’t think it has crossup potential (so running under is not a problem).
Read the edit of my post. Also I forgot to mention how good Maya is at just locking down Delga because she can stay at a range where Delga can’t throw her. I forgot because I suck with Maya. Also running under Delga isn’t as easy as it sounds. Actually… running under anybody isn’t as easy as it sounds.
T-Siely doesn’t hit until the end of her 214A. Her command throw in T becomes a high ranged spinning attack in the air and her 236A becomes the easiest thing to PB her with. Her command throw shifted goes over the heads of pixie characters and you can punish her as soon as she lands (easy with Aleks since you can’t block his punishment). Same with 214A, hitting her during her autoguard of the move usually makes the attack whiff. Free combo as soon as she lands.
seily is a dumb character. she should get seriously revamped, scrub lockdown with no damage, its the most boring match in the game.
Big annoyance in the game is the amount of spammable scrub tactics, at least in SF games the combos spacing and lockdown is hard. Sometimes it doesnt even seem worth fighting a shifted character, so its just a lame ass cat and mouse game. You shift I run, I shift you fly…blah blah blah.
Man, they fly you chase their ass and bring them back to earth. If i can beat Siely with Aleks, anybody can.
Some shifted characters do remind me of Yun’s GJ. It’s almost guaranteed damage once you’re in shift, like activated Yun.
It’s not like that for the whole cast though. Shifted Othello, Rail, and Delga doesn’t scare me any more than unshifted does. Actually I get more aggressive when those characters shift because then I’m like “Hey, they can’t burst. Time to combo they ass.”.
I’m not scared of F-Siely or M-Siely at all either. You just gotta watch out for T-Siely.
As a general rule, I think Rail at least should only shift to either get out of comboes or extend them. >_>
you seriously have no clue how difficult F-Siely is to play. almost every character in the game rapes her. ;/
you almost require nigh-JP precision to not get raped by ANYONE using Tranquility shift against her.
unless you play her as a main, I really don’t think you have any clue how bad she is. there’s almost no hope for her against Othello and Ryougen. hell, even Aleksander can fuck her up because when she’s crouching her hitbox is FUCKING HUGE.
i’ve stuck with her since the game came out, but i think she might end up being the Yang of the game; i.e. being hard as shit to play effectively, needing meter to be effective and getting raped by 2/3rds of the cast. -_-
also she does NO FUCKING DAMAGE, so what the fuck kind of lockdown are YOU getting hit by that’s got YOU scared of her?
edit: don’t mind me, i’m bitter because i feel like my main is actually more like Twelve or Sean or some shit
seriously though, there are characters who are far and beyond more worth complaining about… ( ::cough cough M-Rail cough:: )
T-Siely lock down.
F-Siely is easy to play. Basically, what you do is this - while playing (and the points are relatively even), try to do one basic combo and land as many hits as you can. A normal combo with no super and a shift will get you like 30 hits or more. Now, opponent will be at a major point disadvantage. While shifted, you can rush down to the extreme until the points even up (but this is assuming they can actually block the rush down).
You can for the most part, spam qcb+B in their face, and cancel it to air A, B chain, followed by either another qcb+B (into more air A, B chains), or land and either command throw or crouch B. It’s very difficult to guard against.
How doe she get raped by Othello? Her anti-air is weak so she has some problems with Ryougen…but you can avoid the instant overhead mixups by just backdashing.
I’ve done over 8000 damage with her, which results in about 65 hits, leading to more rushdown potential (since the opponent will likely have to get his points up to this amount, or risk countering her with weak anti-airs).
How much can you do with Siely with just shift stocked (no supers stocked till you shift)?