Monkey Kung-Fu + Teenage Girls = Eileen thread

Classic Fighting Games Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown
41

That’s a really good question. Supposedly, 9k+g executes 1 frame faster than 9k. The reasoning is to allow the system some leniency when it’s translating inputs. If you input 9k, the game will wait 1 frame to ensure that you want 9k instead of jumping k. If you press 9k+g, the game recognizes that you want 9k, and it will not wait another frame to register the attack. Since jumping has changed in VF5FS, I’m not sure if this is true now, but it’s a habit borne from previous games. There was some discussion about this in this thread.

So what effect does this have on gameplay? Very little. 9k (or 9k+g) is used in situations where you’re going to buffer it anyway – eg. [elbow (hit confirm, buffer 9k during hitstun) > 9k] or [block (confirm 9k punish, buffer 9k during blockstun) > 9k punish] – and in these situations, the move will come out the very first frame your character is able to move again because the input delay is swallowed by either the hitstun or blockstun.

When does it matter? It matters when you execute the move from neutral. But going absolutely raw with 9k isn’t recommended anyway.

To clarify, here’s Libertine’s explanation: *"The concept is similar to the execution of Pai’s

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/uf.gif

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/k.gif

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/plus.gif

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/g.gif

vs. her

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/uf.gif

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/k.gif

. The execution speeds for both are identical. For the latter though, the system is waiting for

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/k.gif

to be released to confirm that the player isn’t attempting a jump (entered with

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/uf.gif

Hold

http://virtuafighter.com/forums/images/graemlins/default/k.gif

). This will take at least one frame." *

42

Ex high can hit opponents who are performing a low attack, or an attack that begins from a lower position, but otherwise, it can still be crouched under (eg. Eileen’s 46k+g can stuff a 2p). Ex mid can be blocked from a crouching position (no damage dealt), but it disrupts the low guard (eg. Wolf’s 63214p or Akira’s 3k+g).

I’ll expand a bit on Rabbit’s explanation of OM. Like he said, you can’t use it to evade, but you can use it offensively to gain positioning over your opponent. After a knockdown, I use it to move myself around the ring. In your first vid @0:09s, OM-ing towards the screen after the knockdown (2~p+k+g) would have gained you positional advantage over kaze. His back would have been near the edge of the ring and you would have gained a side-turned position if he chose to guard.

In the same vid, you applied DM correctly @ 0:34s. You whiffed k and used DM to evade kaze’s counterattack. That’s generally where you want to use it. Anytime you are at a disadvantage, you can evade. @ 1m34s, Akira whiffed 46p and you evaded. You had the advantage so your evade failed – ‘failed evades’ are punishable.

Other than that, be careful with 9k. On block, it’s -15f (Akira can punish you with a 14 frame 46p combo). Also, lows like 2k put you at a disadvantage even on hit. You were getting away with 2k into 9k a lot. If kaze simply jabbed after getting hit with your 2k, he would’ve beat your 9k.

Watch out for ppp (-8f; crouchable) and 214ppp (-10f; throw punishable). Use p (+2f) and 6p (-4f) more often. Use p to give you the advantage, then trap them with 6p after. P and 6p should be your main pokes. If p is blocked, your opponent’s fastest counterattack (p or 2p) can be beat with 6p.

Otherwise, nice CH 9k combos. Helluva lot of damage. And you kept your opponent guessing at all times. Good stuff.

43

I will definitely take your advice. I appreciate it!!

44

Thanks for the write up WhatisaLee, I thought it might be remnant from older VF series where her hopkick actually included G. Now I know.

It doesn’t seem like something I need to incorporate in my game at this stage.
There are more important matters at hand… (teching throws, evading, recognizing strings, punishing blocked 2p with elbow and so on.)

45

So folks over at VFDC know about this blog and I wanted to share it with you fellow eileen enthusiast. It’s my blog where I break down eileen as I learn it, and sometimes go over tips and tricks for how to train using her in an efficient way. I’m right now going over different types of flow charts you can go through based on the type of advantage you are at, and the type of attack or defense your opponent will use to stuff your offense.

Right now I’ve just listed all the types of moves that leave you at particular frames, and now I’m going over what you can do at +1 frames. I’ll be going through all the frames you could possibly be at over time. Along with other eileen tech.

In regards to combos . . . So some of the combos I’ve been using on most of the cast are:

9K+G,PP,214PP236P+K,K,66K,_3P,214K+G. You can drop out the 214PP too.

9P,P,3P,[214PPP or 214PP,214K+G]

33P, 8P+K+G, PPP, _3P,214K+G.

46P,P,6P+KPP

9+G,K, 2P, 3P,214K+G

2P+K+G,P,236KKK

6P+G6, P+K,P+K, PK

If their back is to the wall by the time you hit them with the second P+K you can do the 64 wall throw for big damage. (unless they’re good at breaking, but then you can just do the PK or another 6P+G6 throw)

43P+K,214K+G (the link is easier on CH)

CH3P,214K+G,

CH4P+K,214K+G

light characters 9K+G, 6P+K,P,[214PP think this hits too on eileen/blaze],236P+K,K, 66K, _3P,K+G

3K off backdash stagger, 43P+K,PP214PP, 236P+K,K, 66K, 3P,214K+G

46

Starting to realize that 2P+K+G doesn’t actually avoid anything but standing jab…
edit: little bit salty

47

It can go unders some mids, at particular frame advantages. I haven’t figured them all out yet, but it’s very situational and might even be foot stance dependent to.

48

I’ve started trying that 9P combo in matches (9P,P,3P,[214PPP or 214PP,214K+G]), it’s much better than my go-to 9P,6P+K,PP.

From your frame list I was surprised that 3PP on block is actually jab punishable (-13); I never actually checked it.

Also, our 2 moves that give advantage on block are:

  • 236P (+3). Cancelling a string into it is the same frames on block.
  • 236P+K~K (+1) Same frames if you cancel into it.
    If you cancel them though, there’s a gap, so it’s probably better to cancel into them on hit.
49

Unless you’re using a string that combos in VF there is always a gap in what ever you do. You don’t really have the same kind of block strings that you have to wait to end before you can attack like in some 2D games. The frames you get on block doesn’t change based on if you canceled the move or not too. Canceling into those + on block moves is good only when your opponent has clamed up and pretty much stopped pressing buttons, or you know they’re not going to try and Punch you out the air. Both attacks eat low attacks though so they’re great to deal with crouch blockers.

50

6P+G~6,P+K,P+K,PK – the first P+K seems to miss on some characters.
I’ve had it happen multiple times, and I saw your games against Haunt’s Goh where it missed several times. (He was also raging about mashing lol. Just frame mash yo).


matches @ 8min, 18:14
I thought there was another but couldn’t find it just now.

Also saw 2P+K+G~K, 66(dash), 66K, 3P~214K+G

51

Well online it’s very easy to drop the combo but I assure you it works every time barring you don’t mess it up. It’s a very strict combo so you really have to be on point. I still drop it from time to time, but that’s more human error on my part than anything else. 3P,214K+G is the safe version if you’re afraid of dropping the combo.

I just checked out the video and LOL I had no idea he was streaming it, but I was kinda hoping he did. It’s funny when he yelled about just pressing buttons, he was getting frame trapped cuz I knew he was going to press button or crouch attack. that 6P+K+G into jumping kicks is a 15 frame move so you can’t block that on reaction you have to know it’s coming.

Btw I have a new blog post on dealing with vane’s 6frame punch ( here: http://tricky-eileen.blogspot.com/2012/06/vanes-6f-punch-at-1.html ) and one on what to do at +2 frames (here : http://tricky-eileen.blogspot.com/2012/06/so-youre-at-2.html ).

Also I got some good footage in with Shidosha a few nights ago if you want to see some eileen vs some solid peeps.

52

New post on my blog about how to deal with opponents who are crouch guarding. http://tricky-eileen.blogspot.com/2012/06/vs-crouch-guarding.html

53

Ok, so I really don’t understand Eileen’s 46K+G. It seems to start really slow, but it’s a combo starter. Can I use it as a meaty on wakeups (I’ve been trying to do this online, but I keep getting blown up by wakeup kicks).
Also Eileen seems to be incredibly free to 2P…or am I just free to 2P.
And freaking Brad man.

Edit: After reading vipers blog, I’ll start using the 6P mixups to deal with all the 2P.

54

Just added a 3rd BnB combo for her. Check out the first page where I’ve made my post to keep an eye out for updates.

55

Wow, just saw Tricky playing at TSB, that was fun to watch.

56

Got a bunch of eileen matches in here on the archive from Next Level Arcade last night. BTW I won that tournament, eileen’s low tier noise is just that noise. She’s a powerhouse when played right. She just requires a lot of Yomi and matchup knowledge.

starts at 4:24:00 mark

Top 8 Start here

Winners Finals: ShinobiFist vs Tricky 6:22
Losers Finals: ShinobiFist vs Assassin 35:25
Grand Finals: Tricky vs Assassin 43:30

57

Whew thank god…

I play Wolf and so many Eileen’s hit buttons for the sake of hitting buttons, and since Wolf has no normals that are fast as Eileens, I get to mashing crouching jab and kick…

I’ve had Eileen’s that avoided playing me because of cr. jab…

I think every character in the game has at least one move specifically designed for beating crouching jab…

Jabs are the fastest move in the game so even though they seem scrubby, they are good…

58

46K+G isn’t really all that slow for a launcher, especially a safe one. I don’t remember off hand if it does enough damage to beat wakeup attacks on clash, but it’s EX high so it’s fairly well suited to whiff punishment.

Eileen has 9P, which easily blows up 2P at typical advantage or disadvantages. Even so it’s important to use 6P at +2 or higher as a fundamental “check” against opponents.

59

46K+G is good when you think a low attack is coming and you have like +7 frames since it’s a 19 frame move. I mainly use it in wall combos right after the wall stagger.

60

It’s funny you say this, because I didn’t even notice the problem until I played a Jeffrey who did this to me all the time.

Anyways, I think Eileen is garbage. I like her, but she doesn’t seem to have what it takes. I might sub Goh for when I get irritated.

Well garbage may not be the right thing. I just think Goh has better defensive options, and a better throw mixup game, without being big and ugly.