Feel pretty much the same. The characters that are high reward and low risk really take a lot of thought out of the game. And unfortunately most of these characters are almost immune to the focus system as well.
Any character can be broken with minor adjustment, I feel yun is broken, or as close to it as you can get. E.ryu’s buffs in ultra took him from least used to one of the most popular and easy to use. With the right tweaks you could change Dan and Hugo or take yun down. Look how yang fairs now. So what if gouken becomes top tier for one iteration. You know it wouldn’t last any way. Capcom has treated him like some redheaded step child, it appears capcoms biggest time spent with him was in the initial stages of sf4. Before he’s spent millions of hours being played thoroughly in the hands of every type of player and skill level. I don’t know I guess its just me. Spending 5 years on a toon. Knowing all his strengths and having every one of his weaknesses flaunted and shoved in my face. Knowing that I lose to good play as much as I lose to shenanigans and tactic spam and abuse from lesser skilled players just because of goukens glaring weaknesses. Cause if I were to switch to one of my alts, I blow those players up. I just spent far to much time and energy to say oh well he’s got to many obvious wholes to be truly competitive. I played in a tournament back in the beginning days of ssf4, came in 2nd with gouken and using alt twice. My gouken wins mostly came from people not knowing the match ups 2 players never faced one or at least one who knew him and didn’t just pick him up to see what his moves looked like. I lost to a basic ryu. And basic I don’t mean average. Just he stuck to all ryu basics simple zoning, etc. I could only demon flip air parry maybe twice cause than he found out ryu could decimate it with 2 hit j.mp. he was a better player and I lost the way it should be not because they could keep spamming a loop and I can only escape cause they screwed up etc. I’m sorry for ranting, fallen into such a rut with him lately that maybe it got to me. But I’ve been on these forums at least int the gouken ones since I picked him up. But I’ve heard so much of the same thing from so many players that it’s turning into a broken record. And you would think all the complaints, suggestions and lack of competitive play some one would hear it. At this point gouken is just a novelty to pay homage to what started out as regional error into a joke.
I think there’s a difference between a character being top tier and other characters not being able to compete against a “said” character.
I don’t think any character should have high-reward low risk moves that you can barely punish or just are able to do things so that system mechanics don’t apply to them. That includes and is not limited to being immune to the focus system and being able to just “mash” specials b/c the other play literally can’t do anything about it.
Somethings about Gouken is just poor design, while other things that he has going for him most people simply don’t use or refuse to listen to no matter how much it’s stressed.
the main changes for me would be:
- regular tatsu connecting on all hits.
the drops make the usefulness of the move very questionable. would also fix a major flaw in his design which is the lack of solid anti-air vs divekickers. - cr. lp or st. lk +4 on hit.
st. lk is utterly useless, and this would give him a way of combo out of lights without making his pressure much stronger. - lp palm needs to slightly move forward. it needs to connect from cr. mp or cr. lk full range.
one of the main flaws in gouken’s game is that he can’t combo anything consistently at max range of his pokes. the only useful tool is tatsu, and if you whiff, you’re dead. this makes him weak in footsie game, specially vs characters with long pokes or good focus.
Check first post, it’s out.
Good job.
Cr mp 6 frame start up 
No increase of range/forward movement of lp Palm
GF parry (land 4 frames when activated or descend faster, existing on whiff)
Really good job though.
I really liked it too
First, thank you. I’m not very good at public speaking so sorry for all the uhh… awkwardness. Couldn’t have done it without you guys!
cr.MP at 5 frames startup felt kind of silly in playtesting, tried to keep it, but man…
LP palm increase didn’t feel very necessary due to the increased utility of c.mp->fireball
GF parry works better because jab confirms work better… you can’t always get s.mp but you can always get crouch jab.
It is very difficult to convey how powerful some of the things I wanted and you guys suggested actually felt in playtesting. GF parry for example recovering faster was just completely obnoxious for some chars like Sakura and Balrog. Jab conversions off that particular bait really felt rewarding enough. Take every situation that you GF parried and got nothing or a chain of jabs and add 200 damage to that scenario. Even when you’re really far out now you can sometimes like dash up and crouch jab or fs.MK (distance buff).
cr.MP as it is in my mod is pretty similar to evil ryu cr.MK in how it is applied. At max range you get like cr.MP x fireball FADC fs.MP, cr.LK x HK tatsu… it’s a lot of damage. The closer you are the more you get (because you get cs.MP after FADC). It is very very powerful even at 6 frames in my opinion.
It is very easy to take a mountain of changes and turn a character into a total monster and I had to be reasonably careful. A lot of the buffs I thought we needed ended up not really being necessary when you can easily convert off of gouken’s crouch jab. In the mod, several options that sucked before now are just crazy without ANY changes to them due to jab conversions alone. j.LK is a godlike ambiguous cross-up. Command Divekick is very very good. GF parry as mentioned above works a lot better without changing it at all.
That’s why I asked you all to test it if possible before commenting. It seems like I missed a bunch of really important stuff, BUT once you play with the entire package I think you’ll agree that any more would be too much. That said I know you don’t all have the PC version to try it out so I understand the skepticism.
I think the mod was good, I’m not skeptical.
I know with gf parry, possible to activate it air to air and the opponent gets out of trouble bc they have a 4 frame landing and Gouken has a 6 with the added grey damage. I don’t think landing at the same time as the opponent is OP, especially when you take the grey damage and risk to get it. 6 frames on whiff makes sense.
I will see if my crossover app works for my Mac, but i kept getting errors and i didnt feel like figuring out why. I had parallels and it wigged out my Cpu last time, so I’m done with that.
But as I said, I think the mod and video was good.
Edit: Another thing I would do is, remove that gap of invincibility loss when kongo starts up. That’s why he loses to some rapid 2 hit attacks.
2nd that on kongo fix…that would kill the bs for sure! nice one pimp
If you say that cr mp is like evil ryu cr Mk, I’ll take that every day of the year…
at the very tip of crhp>lp hado has better reach than crmk>hado but the time to cancel to lp hado is shit…maybe extend that time and make the tip of crhp>lp hado (give us more time), easier to cancel to
the only thing that cl.lk has going for it is its weird leaning back hurtbox. I’ve hardly ever used it on purpose, but it does seem to be advantageous in that very minor respect.