It’s finished. Enjoy.
Ultimately I couldn’t do everything I wanted to do, due to the fact that my computer is still not finished and I had to use a friend’s. I’m sorry. But I think this video is good and does most of what I wanted… If you can, please download the mod and try it before commenting. Thanks for all the help guys.
Things you may want to add.
-Cr. Fp - Forces stand.
-Far st. mp- +6 on hit
-Decrease recovery on successful GF Grab to 6 frames on recovery
-GF Parry- 4 frame landing on successful parry (if activated), if parry isn’t activated then 6 frame landing
-Air Tatsu- decrease landing to either 10 or 12 frames. The other shotos are at 8-10 IIRC.
Any special reason for this one?
That’s a pretty big change, are you looking to get into EX Palm with it?
I’m looking into all of these. Currently GF Grab is pretty low priority because we already have one setup off of it (instant jump cross-up MK) but I would really like to reduce the recovery on Air Tatsu and GF Parry if I can. Both of those are just egregious. But modding is hard, I might not be able to add them in. If I can’t I’ll put a footnote about them in the video when it’s done. BTW, does Air tatsu provide a juggle state?
-should far mk hit most crouchers or just larger ones?
-dj.mp cancellable after 2nd hit to iat?<—(prob not mandatory but ryu has it right so wtf)
air tatsu I think does cause juggle but we aren’t on the ground soon enough to use it
Nah… Sweep. I don’t think EX palm will hit with the extra frame.
GF Grab is indeed low priority… You kinda lose the spacing if you go for it it the corner b/c Gouken backs himself in the corner and cross up kick is iffy then b/c the auto-correct many times that way b/c of spacing and recovery… Not really a big deal though… just don’t GF Grab in the corner lol.
Air tastu should put the opponent in a limited juggle state, but Gouken takes so long to recovery that we can’t do anything with it. Maybe a corner follow up with dj hk, n.j. hp or Denjin if it was better. You probably could also net something else on counter hit… but with a 20 frame recovery on the ground it doesn’t give you time to yield anything right now.
Another tatsu change you might want to add, is Gouken drops faster than the opponent after the final hit instead of at the same rate or later.
Cr hp into tatsu wiffs on some characters, that might be the reason. I would love to see palm moving like makoto karakusa, where I can cancel it from max range on lk and cr lk but that’s me. And more hit stun on DJ mk
I like gouken with a dash …ooh is running armor palm broken gouken or what?
good ideas mates
Again, the goal here is to enhance things Gouken already has. Gouken has jab combos now, so making them better is on the table. He has a low poke with some potential, so improving it is on the table.
The reason for this isn’t because of a self-righteous crusade or anything, it’s just because that’s the kind of thing Capcom is most likely to listen to us about. If it’s something we already have and we prove that it can be made better with changes that don’t give gouken a bunch of broken new combos (say to Sweep or into EX Palm), I think they’re more likely to go for it. Basically, whatever I add shouldn’t increase his max damage from new scenarios or buff his mid-range footsies very much. I’m also leaving his fireball game alone because his weaknesses there are intentional and are almost certainly not going away. I hope you guys can understand where I’m coming from here.
On the other side of this: I don’t want to decrease his damage or stun anywhere. Those are part of Gouken’s core identity and something I want to preserve.
Currently my thinking is that IAT should lag less, but LIGHT IAT should be the combo tatsu. EX Palm->Light IAT->Ultra, backthrow->jmp 1->IAT, ultra etc are things I’m trying to make happen. The reason for this is that it gives us a fun new way to “express ourselves” in play without dramatically increasing our damage output.
So changes I’m looking into now:
Update:
I took a scalpel to Air Tatsus this morning. These are almost certainly the most extensive changes I have made and will make. In the next update:
And also:
All these changes seem really extensive, but in the video I think you’ll see how minor most of it really is. I changed two normals pretty drastically but one only has minor changes and the Tatsu changes are really just cleanup. The rest of it is bugs. I expect the video to be only 5 minutes and I might start on it sooner than I thought.
What about the drop from normal tatsu?? Is there away to make Gouken descend before the opponent instead of pausing and floating down at the same rate? It’s already -100 so making him drop faster than the opponent if it connects won’t change much if anything.
It would just keep him from being punished or being pressured after landing it near the corner.
Good work btw.
Also, why opposed to making cr. fp force stand?? Many times the Cr. FP > EX Palm whiffs on crouching opponents b/c they reel back, but if it forced stand it would solve the issue… But then again we could land tatsu easier after cr. fp and that’s what they may want to prevent. st. mp > cr. fp > hk tatsu… lol.
-lp palm- can you add more forward movement so cr. lp > palm will always land?
Drop from normal tatsu is super annoying and I agree with you… but I think there are certain things in the game that are just on the player to understand, right? Like, you don’t do GF grab in the corner. You don’t do Tatsu in the corner vs cody. In most other situations the tatsu recovery is balanced. You gotta remember that 185 damage on a special is really, really high. The fact that it has certain limitations (fall speed, less safe in corners, whiffs on low opponenets) is almost certainly intentional. If you want it to link from c.HP you can always use EX, and Gouken has no-meter punishes that are nearly as good as s.MP c.HP x HK Tatsu.
Also, realistically, I can’t “fix” every problem. I would love to, really. This video presentation needs to be relatively short (to keep the attention of people who could listen to what we’re asking for). I’m already in really deep. I need to limit it to making gouken’s intended strengths work correctly and fixing attacks that just don’t work right… which HK Tatsu and c.HP do, for the most part. Can you imagine Combofiend sitting through a 20 minute presentation of every single little problem? I’d love to say I can (and I could totally fill 20 minutes or more)… but at some point he’d probably say “this is whining” and close it.
Also, does c.LP x Light Palm whiff? On who? When? I don’t think I’ve ever had it happen but I could be wrong. Dumb shit whiffs all the time on this character.
Him being punishable for whiffing should be intentional. Him getting punished for using his own move is laughable.
But yeah, I guess to someone out there that’s just good character design and probably something that’s too much to ask for.
I am very aware of how I can use it and what Gouken’s options are. I know s.Mp CHP X HK Tatsu is good. That’s why I proposed earlier that cr. fp forces stand. it would solve both EX Palm issues and give us a more consistent combo/punish.
Yes. It’s his job. There are going to be plenty of requests out there.
Shit I know I sat through all of BlackToof Mods. b/c they were good.
But it’s your mod. Do you.
Exactly. That’s why I’m giving you input. At least be willing to change it and if you don’t feel like it needs to be covered in the presentation that’s fine. Just hide it in the mod…
But anyway… Here’s a quick one that whiffs.
vs. Ryu. Standard Hit box.
(Obvioulsy cl. st. mp pushes back too far.)
cross up j. mk, cl. st. mp, * cr. lp
cross up j. mk, cl. st. mp >cr. lk xx *lp palm.
cross up j. mk, cl. st. mp >* cr. fp xx *tatsu (not to mention crouching opponents
st. mp, cr. lp, cr. lp xx *palm
So that only leaves Gouken with the mp button which you can hit with cr. mp which won’t always combo to hado and st. mp which is +5 on hit and should be +6 on hit so we can 1 frame link into sweep and everybody won’t be able to do that.
(Obvioulsy cl. st. mp pushes back too far.)
cross up j. mk, cl. st. mp, * cr. lp
cross up j. mk, cl. st. mp >cr. lk xx *lp palm.
cross up j. mk, cl. st. mp >* cr. fp xx *tatsu (not to mention crouching opponents
st. mp, cr. lp, cr. lp xx palm
Yup. Close St. Mp pushes back hella far. So cross up j. mk, cl. st. mp, cr. lp won’t even work because the cr. lp isn’t in range.
Also contributes to dropping ex palm/tatsu combos.
jump in hp/hk>cl mp>cl mk give anyone problems…need to see it fixed? you have to delay the cl mk to the end of reeling animation but after that you get nothing cause of the pushback primarily off cl mp shoving everything way out of place…
for cl mp there are soo many char specifics it would be great to have fixed once and for ALL the amount of pushback reduced probably would take away the whiffing and make it more stable throughout.
I’ll see what I can do in response to the above posts. Thanks for suggestions.
^ Bet.
I appreciate you taking other feedback into account, even though it’s your mod.
@iamthatiam
I changed c.HP to force standing, but it didn’t really have the result you wanted.
s.MP, c.HP x HK Tatsu will still whiff a lot, even though I reduced s.MP pushback as much as I could get away with.
What you can do now is s.MP, c.HP x MK Tatsu on the characters it whiffs on. It still does more damage than s.MP, c.HP x HP Palm, so I hope that’s acceptable to you. You would have to remember which characters you can do HK and which you need to do MK instead, like Yun’s upkicks bnbs. This was actually accomplished without changing c.HP at all, and I still feel that Gouken should have to react to the opponent’s position (standing or crouching) rather than changing it, as this is a long-standing weakness that he is balanced around having.
Changing s.MP really worked out well. Although it’s a lot easier to get the two cs.MP combo on shotos and now works on a lot of other characters (which I think is kind of a bad thing)… consider cs.MP, cs.MP, c.HP x EX Tatsu now works on Cammy. I’m worried about what other stuff might pop up and I’m even considering moving the position restriction distance back a little bit (it’s really really large atm for some reason).
This is never going to happen so I’m not going to even bother to suggest it, but if c.HP had the same hit effect as his standing medium punch we would have many, many fewer problems. The “medium” reel effect for most characters is much less ridiculous.
Thanks.
If Gouken lands cs. mp, cs. mp, c.hp x EX Tatsu on Cammy, then she deserved it. 
I want to run something by you:
I changed close standing medium punch so that while it has less pushback, it also has a shorter activation distance. Right now, it’s at 1.2, and I reduced it to 1.15.
At 1.2, you could use the new MP to just chain 2 s.MPs together without a jump-in or anything. It worked against most of the cast and felt really silly.
At 1.15, it’s a little better. You can still get the 2 MPs on larger characters (like you could before by linking the MP during its earliest active frames), but not on smaller ones without a combo video style deep-ass jump-in. On the larger ones though, you can link 2 MPs easily INTO c.HP and then EX Palm. In one-meter combos (say j.HP, s.MP, s.MP, c.HP x EX Palm Ultra 2 or HK Tatsu) it adds about 10 extra damage and 25 extra stun due to scaling. If you use 3 meter to juggle with light tatsu or j.MP, it actually does significantly less damage because of the extra scaling.
Another side-effect though of the 1.15 distance restriction is there are times when you divekick a guy’s foot and only get far MP. This is pretty rare, most of our normal jump-ins (including nj.HP) still work as expected.
I wanted to know what you thought of all this.
That move sounds boss gotta hit after dive kick though.
I’d just decrease the push back and -10 the damage cl. st. mp from 65 > 55.
I’d leave the activation range the same, that’s actually the activation range st. mk should have (or close to it).