yo nick, mind explaining in further details please. you mention changes are too big, and community has lost its roots, etc. can you please give specific examples and/or instances to back up these things. im not agreeing or disagreeing with you, but at this point being very attentive to detail will only help the situation that much more. thanks man.
if you are pro FGC i would also suggest to not be so negative by saying things like “i cant wait until it all comes crashing down…” cause this will only create a darker image. i feel bad i didnt act on anything earlier, as i am only 1 person, but i do feel my voice can carry and generate louder than some of yours. so lets please work together to get things done and hopefully we can all be happy.
ftr, im not against working with others, but i am against whats technically an attempted “cooperate takeover.” heres one of my major beefs with how everything has gone down. these esports people come knocking on the door and wanting this and that done their way and only their way. if they were smart about things they might have accomplished something years ago by trying different methods aside from the force it down your throat tactic. then they go with the we have a ton of money tactic. now they are finally going with recruiting people like arturo to over see things but from what i hear they are only there to point and teach, and not even aloud to have “hands on” work. so we shall see what happens. dont underestimate the power in numbers and keep voicing your opinions guys. just make sure you have solid evidence or historical facts to back up what you say. i have been thinking about all the things ive said for months now and finally ready to put up the fight and hopefully work towards making the fgc a better place.
thanks for listening and feel free to debate, bring more light to the situation from either side, and lets continue working to grow.
I’ve no issue with spectators, personally. Provided they understand the game, they can have a good time. I know more than one person who watched, and had a blast watching, Evo streams who isn’t into fighters, but gets the mechanics.
I’m expecting Justin Wong to show up at Evo, legdrop Floe and rip off his Evomania shirt to reveal a MLG shirt and turn heel Hogan at Bash At The Beach 96 style.
Ultradavid: This is the most disgraceful day in the history of our sport. For James Chen, Skisonic, Mr Wizard, everyone here at Evo, I don’t know, Justin Wong you can go to hell.
I don’t know what you all are talking about because I didn’t watch KOF stream. I watched the SC5 MLG stream and I thought it was actually pretty damn good. The only problem I saw was that sometimes the stream would stay on the camera that shows the players when gameplay is going on rather than showing the gameplay. But this was rare and only during the first couple seconds of a round when it did happen.
I think this hate towards MLG streams is just you 1337 people in your cool treehouse club that don’t wanna let all those “stupid mainstream” people in. Also, I can’t believe how spoiled some people are that this thing they’re getting FOR FREE is “ruined” by the occasional 10 second commercial. (as oppose to the cable TV that doesn’t do this? I mean geez even the Superbowl has commercials) I’m dubbing you all “The YouTube Generation” who think that you are just entitled to great and endless entertainment at no cost or inconvenience for no reason other than you are in this group of elite supercool people who have an internet connection. (even if it’s actually your mommy and daddy who are paying for said internet)
The MLG streams ARE A GREAT THING because they’re uber-professional (they do look so much better than any other stream I’ve seen) and they’re bringing fighting games to the attention of non-fighting gamers.
I agree. I probably should’ve gone into further detail. My whole thing right now is the overall “mood” of the current community. I’m not against the idea of community, but the approaches that are being taken give off the idea that nobody seems to give a crap anymore. Plain and simple example…As I mentioned, the front page of SRK always seems to be taking a turn for the worse. For one, what happened to people having some kind of tourny winning merit before being heard? I remember when if you were a nobody, you had to prove it in tourny. But nowadays you have bumfuck scrub #123445 posting videos on the front page, meanwhile we have no idea who they are. Where’s the credibility?? The thing is that the new community just eats this shit up. Now I’m not saying that maybe some stuff shouldn’t be looked at in regards to strategy or what have you, but there seems to be this sense of “everyone should have a voice”.
The problem keeps growing though. Now let’s say I’m watching a stream right, I’m at home and I can’t go to the next major, do I really care if Johnny Doughnuts 1 and 2 are having a match on stream, just so I can miss a sick match between 2 high calibur players?? I’ve witnessed this a few times with some majors. It was fairly recent, but unfortunately I don’t remember specifics. But getting down to it, I really don’t care about bum 1 and 2 having a match. In recent years they just seem to throw any random matches on stream for the hell of it.
And about what I said about it all crashing down, sorry to say but the community kinda needs a “wakeup call” of sorts. I mean I hope it keeps going well, but I feel like the FGC is “losing control” as I mentioned losing its roots, or as you used this language of “corporate takeover”. Eventually, the FGC/SRK/whatever, will not be about the players anymore, and that’s my overall point. I didn’t mean to come off as harsh.
Uh… are they actually bringing fighting games to the attention of non-fighting gamers? If anything they are perpetuating the belief that fighting games is a niche community that is a fraction the size of your Starcraft or even Halo communities.
Which I told you doesn’t make sense because formats with that many ads are unpopular and lose viewership. If MLG averages 5000 viewers with ad overload, and level up manages 10,000 with minimal ads, which fucking strategy do you think people are going to take? It’s not rocket science.
Whether or not you’ve given evidence isn’t the point, it’s your ***tone. ***It’s immature and ranty, and very little of it gives me a reason to take you seriously because again(And you seem to be missing this point) you’re speaking in mostly hyperbole.
And whether or not Watson is an O.G. is besides the fucking point. Listen to his tone, and listen to yours.
Of course! Because I totally did a poll and meant that as an actual statistic. You see how shitty hyperbole tends to be? Some people miss your point in it’s entirety!
That’s all great and dandy. And I’m sure you seem to think I disagree with you. I don’t. I just think you sound like a really bad SAT thesis when you write shit like “MLG is dangerous”, and again, use HYPERBOLE. I’ll put in bold so you see it this time too. HYPERBOLE.
There are plenty of ways to write a piece about distrust in an individual or entity. You can do better.
But I think a large part of this has to do with adapting from a presenters standpoint. Shitty people playing on stream means the stream producer or the people running the brackets aren’t doing their job.
As for the first part of what you said-- I tend to agree, that we need higher standards for whats posted on the front page. I’ve been guilty of posting up things here and there that should have been vetted more thoroughly. I’ve been trying to improve as of late with what I tend to throw up as news, and I think everybody on the team is trying to do that.
I don’t know. I think people equate “professionalism” with “selling out” and it’s not that. I think everything you said has merit, and when people tend to pull stupid shit like playing on stream without any skill so to speak-- that’s amateurish. Make people think about a marque match-up before sending Joe Shmoe to the stream or see if a Combo Video is really worthy at all of a news post. I’m not saying we should go all MLG about it, because there’s things about that format that I think personally should be worked on. But most of this stuff has to do with how the community handles this massive “Attention beam” and what we direct it at. If it’s directing it at the people who deserve it, I’m all for that, but there needs to be a conscious effort for all parties to do that. Everybody can have a voice but that doesn’t mean that everything said should be given a spotlight. I dunno. My two cents.
So rather than actually discuss MLG you instead want to obsess about the manner in which I am speaking about MLG. Got it.There is no reason I can give to you to back up my claim that you would accept because in spite of its possible legitimacy you would nevertheless refute it solely on the basis of my tone .
I understand now that I cannot hope to reason with you. So I will stop trying all together.
MLG’s whole production came off as corny and forced I gotta say BUT the sponsorship stuff has to happen eventually. The current model of community events is cool but it will reach a point where no one is making any money…Final Round was too big this year for the venue, tournament organizers will have to start renting out convention centers and the like soon I feel. Plus paying for all the DLC for all the games that are coming out, fighting games need money. They just don’t necessarily need it to fit in the esports model.
Imagine an event as hype, grassroots, and BIG as Evo happening every couple months. It could happen.
You are speaking as if people were making money off organizing FG tourneys in the past… which is the whole problem with MLG. They seem to have the impression that the FGC is untapped gold and they can easily make money off it.
I’m not exaggerating when I said from 5:30 to 7, only 2 matches had been streamed, the rest was commercials and random talking (mostly commercials).
They were showing commercials between every game and after 7 they shifted it to after every set. God bless Arturo for getting that fixed.
Still, the gap between games was ridiculously long on Day 1 and Day 2 imo until KoF finals. It felt like more time was spent on non-gameplay than gameplay.
Day 3 I wouldn’t know, I just tuned for a few matches trying to catch GF for SCV and PL getting beat (his loser’s bracket match wasn’t on stream wtf) and MK9 GF on MLG between NCR matches.
Day 2 was better than Day 1 but it can still get better like streaming another match from that part of the bracket instead of bodying us with commercials, music over a crowd shot and banter waiting for all those matches to finish up.
Bigger events now compared to then, which means they cost more. And yeah, I get that impression from them as well.
Jesus Christ man, is it so fucking hard for you to just say something straight without an exaggeration? Is it that difficult for you to do that? Do I have to spell it out for you in terms a five year old could fucking understand? How dense are you? I like how you apparently “can’t reason with me” when I fucking listed out in plain english that I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, but how you’re saying it.
Maybe I should put it in giant bold-- you know what fuck it.
**YOU CAN SAY EVERYTHING YOU’RE SAYING WITHOUT USING HYPERBOLE. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS? NO? HERE. If me asking you to not use overblown language to make your point is so impossibly difficult for you to understand, then yes. Sure. I want you to “obsess over the language”, because it’s so RIDICULOUSLY hard to avoid overstatements. It must take all of your focus in order to phrase something in a way which doesn’t seem like an exaggeration, because that’s totally not a common function of people in society. Feel free to ignore me, and live in your own oblivious world of “he just doesn’t like me.” **
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t your tone a little immature and ranty? There is very little of what you are even saying that gives me a reason to take you seriously. Perhaps if you spoke in a friendlier manner?
. and correct me if I’m wrong, but for somebody who doesn’t like hyperbole when somebody is trying to make a point … you sure use a lot of hyperbole when trying to make your point.
No, my tone is frustrated. And keep in mind, when I’m using hyperbole I’m using it in an absurdest tone. You aren’t.
You sincerely believe that the MLG stream is this dangerous thing that threatens our very existence. As if everyone we know in the FGC is going to copy their ad model.
I don’t actually believe that you live in a world oblivious to common day things around you, or that you are a 14 year old writing a high school thesis.
There’s a difference between reading something like “A Modest Proposal” and an Anne Coulter book. One uses hyperbole to illustrate the absurdity, the other believes it.
And keep in mind, I’m not the one who’s trying to get people’s attention, ***you are. ***So again, if you like-- write off what I said and go on your own merry way.
But one thing.
Watts and you had similar points and intentions. Even in the instance where I wouldn’t know who either of you were-- I would be more inclined to listen to him than you.
To be fair if anything NCR10 is setting an even more dangerous precedent… if everyone starts playing SFxT like Infiltration then that game is no future in the FGC.
It’s a pretty natural response to some stupid fuck who is too dumb to read the actual content and just keeps doing the same shit over and over while arguing against a point that was never made, but you wouldn’t get that, would you, dumbass?
yep
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Now, would you be more responsive to a post that says that, or one that says “isn’t it understandable that he would get frustrated when you seem to be ignoring his main point?” Yeah, I thought so. And yes, it is necessary to get into it with your choices of words, because you are being intentionally incendiary, and you are creating false arguments with your poor word choices. A good way to avoid having people be critical of your choices of words is to do better at choosing them. Also, you don’t appear to know what “hyperbole” means.[/details]
This post is mostly nonsense, particularly the last part.
it really has nothing to do with being professional or not. It has to do with the volume and quality of the content, and the quality of the gaming experience for the players. If you’re selling exposure as one of your benefits, giving viewers tuning into your stream a 70% chance of missing gameplay is just flat out unacceptable. At one point Sunday, SCV was running on both MLG and NCR streams. There were nearly six matches streamed for every single match on the MLG stream.
Now imagine you’re a fan or player of a different game. The tournament you were watching just ended, or you’re between matches, and you’ve decided to check out another game. You tune into the fighting game stream and you’re greeted with one of the following: a lengthy shot of the crowd set to dubstep, people talking about the last match, a commercial, people talking about the next match followed by a commercial, or an interview. This entire process takes between 15 and 30 minutes and averages around 20. Remember, you are not a fighting game player and don’t typically follow fighting games; you just decided to check it out on a whim. You are the example non-fighting game player that MLG is supposed to bring fighting games to the attention of. How long would you stick around and watch nothing before you decide to go watch something else, most likely the thing that you actually came to MLG for? My guess is, not 15-30 minutes.
In business, and sales in particular, there is something called a conversion rate. It’s the percentage of people exposed to what you have to offer who decided to take action. The MLG fighting game streams were only showing fighting games 30-35% of the time, meaning that the other 65-70% of the time they were essentially turning away potential viewers. That’s not growth. that’s not exposure. That’s just wasting time. And it’s not the ads, because ads took up a relatively small percentage of that dead time. Over the weekend, I’m pretty sure I watched between 6 and 10 hours of crowd shots. There’s no way I would have stayed tuned in that long if I wasn’t a regular fighting game player and viewer. They’re not going to convert me. So who are they going to convert, and how?
You don’t have to be “1337 people in a cool treehouse club” to see that the attendance for KOF13 was split between the two tournaments, and that the competition for both was hurt because of that. Of course, a lot of FGC people, including the OP, are also being dumb and blowing the whole matter out of proportion in the other direction. But there are certainly very legitimate concerns about the effects of league coordination on the existing scene.