SF4 has way more random things in it than just wake up ultra. Entire characters like Ibuki and Akuma revolve around getting a knockdown and than doing a vortex where you have to guess right to get out. Whenever a character like Yun is close to you that game becomes an elaborate guessing game. Sure it’s still less random than Marvel but it’s not that much less.
As for your second point that doesn’t make sense. First, I play other games besides Marvel. Second, why would playing Marvel most of the time make me not able to say it’s a random game. That is the exact opposite of how it should be, because I play it the most I would be the perfect person to ask about how random or not random Marvel is. Logically I would understand the game the best because I play it more than all of you do.
MvC3 takes skill, MvC2 takes more, and I think old vs games take a retarded amount of skill, 6 buttons and an Alpha level strictness of execution… I think to claim something is random, you have to define what makes it random- what random is. The game’s level of strictness and execution is VERY loose, and it has less buttons than previous incarnations, but that doesn’t mean people play without using any tactics, setups, guessing games, block strings, or space control whatsoever. There is little random about it, and if you’re stupid enough to wakeup dash or stick something out and eat a fullscreen super and call it “random” you shouldn’t be playing. No offense intended
Mind you, I’m not a MvC3 player at all, but I played my share of mvc2 and XvSF back in the day. I know that everything is intentional, there may be “odd” situations that don’t seem to fit, like you eat a weird counter hit leading to some kind of setup into big damage. The problem is that sometimes it’s tough to tell if it’s setup intentionally by your opponent, or if that counterhit itself is matchup specific (“random”) and what they do as a follow up to capitalize is just adaptation. Shit like this happens in every SF game.
How is that random, though? A wakeup ultra is just a bad option to begin with unless you KNOW you have to reverse something, nothing random about it, unless you’re playing a total scrub who WILL do it, in which case you should probably just guess when it’s coming and dash in low block. As far as Akuma or Ibuki being about knockdowns and guessing right, I don’t know how that qualifies as random. Mind you I hate SF4, I play a good Ibuki in 3s and have played her in 4 and I can tell you 9 times out of 10 I’m gonna go for something into a superjump cancel, usually jump over a projectile or empty jump air parry and go for an air chain into a standing ground chain into another SJC- when I’m in the air after the sjc I’m totally open to an antiair special, and when Jaron and I play 3s he’ll dp it…as far as on a knockdown I’m going to go for pressure, and it’s almost always going to be an overhead or wait for a full wakeup (block), c.lk command grab combo. I’m almost never going to stick out a high. You can expect a throw mixup (tech), an overhead (focus it or high block), a low (low block), or a crossup kunai into standing chain on the other side (antiair it with a normal or block)… this of course being SF4 with no parries. Guessing right is a part of it, but what I’m doing isnt random at all
ill give u an example. in mvc3 all tron does is that stupid spinning lariat and hopes it hits on a misjudged block or on a cross up that itll hit from behind cuz the block is switched to the other side on crossup. sorry for the run on sentence but thats what mvc3 is. constant random attacks that when on hit u can type in whatever combo u want cuz the combo system lets u take like a sec to type it in. thats why i hate sf4 and all the new fg cuz its catered to newbs. no offense to everyone but when it comes to old school games no one wants to play them cuz the combo system is real tight and u cant drop nothing
That’s just simply not true, if you play people who play Tron like that they’re bad players and if you can’t deal with something so simple than you’re a bad player. If you really believe that’s what is going on in high level MVC3 than I really don’t even have anything else to say.
I don’t play mvc3 seriously nor sf4 but I play 3rd Strike, Alpha, ST, and many doujin/SNK games well…I don’t like the new games either, and I almost exclusively play them, so I dont know where the bolded statement is coming from lol
If anything an old school player should have NO problem blocking a crossup move like that, and with the input timing and execution being so lax there’s really no excuse for not running shit and cleaning house in newer games vs new players (ahem there’s no excuse for me getting 3rd in SF4 here Saturday cough)
well i dont play mvc3 but from all the matches ive seen of tron or mvc3 period, its just a random move fest. assist mixed with random beams/fireballs. im not saying anyone can pick it up day 1 and win evo or even a local tourny but he dont have to put too much time and effort like u would with ST/3s and hell even sf4. Alex u got skills but its pretty much determined but the whole fgc that mvc3 is pretty random
Dude tron can decide to airdash and cross up or just do jumping H and hit from the front. The fact that tron chooses which side to hit from makes it not random. And the fact that you cant see how to block it means you suck
Please don’t act like this is the front page or eventhubs
He doesn’t suck he’s one of the best in Milwaukee at SF, just because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about when it comes to Marvel doesn’t mean he sucks
yep, pretty much. good thing for justin that he’s at such a higher level in general fighting game skill overall that it helps his placings. but other than that, they really need to tone down the damage/OTK shit in the game to lessen the random factor. I still won’t like the game, but I would be able to respect it more, enjoy watching actual top play (which would then actually have more top player skill) as I do with SF4, and overall it would be less goofy to watch.
Fair enough keranata, poor word choice on my part.
I’m just saying too many people chalk up losses to “random” stuff. Offence in mvc3 is really easy so a lot of people just say its an easy game. What actually makes it difficult to play is getting a hit in while keeping up a solid defense. Since offence is ridiculously good, defense is where skill comes in. It seems like people love to complain about getting hit without actually trying to figure out how to avoid it. Dark phoenix kinda fucks up this whole idea but whatever you get the point
“What actually makes it difficult to play is getting a hit in while keeping up a solid defense. What actually makes it difficult to play is getting a hit in while keeping up a solid defense. Since offence is ridiculously good, defense is where skill comes in.” umm…sorta like every fighting game ever. (except for the offense being ridiculously good but obviously offense, hitting your opponent, is better as that’s what you need to do to win). you should know how to attack safely so as not to get countered yourself in your offense. basic fighting game skills. also, skill has always came in when it comes to defense.
the point is, there are random hits in every fighting game. it’s not the random hits that are the problem. it’s the huge, easy, usually OTK damage in the game (off of random hits) that is the problem and what most people complain about.
so you can play like ass, maybe get a random hit like you would in other games, maybe your opponent makes 1 wrong guess or 1 small misjudgement, but get a much much larger reward than in most fighting games. worth way more than what the risk took.
so yes, the results of mvc3 games can be stupid and random…but it’s not random hits that you should be complaining about it’s the ease of converting these random hits or any hits into crippling game changing damage that is the problem. you have the simple-mode combo system and retarded damage to thank for that.
As for the little back and forth that’s going on, I think the issue isn’t the randomness. I think the issue is that in Marvel the so called “random” hit leads to a dead character. A successful vortex with Akuma or Ibuki amounts to another knockdown and damage but does NOT guaranty you the round.
I’m super hype to see you guys in top 16. Alex, dooku, kill 'em.
U all have valid points but i still imo think mvc3 and all vs series are random. Only exception is cvs series. I look at this as a never ending argument so we’ll agree to disagree. Lol but yea goodluck to all whose going to evo.
I can totally agree with that. The damage is wayyy too high in this game and hopefully they fix it with the next update coming up. I just really dislike using the word random. Theres a lot of crazy shit in this game but all of the hits you take come from being put into a situation you shouldn’t have been in.
Anyways good discussion to everyone invovled
